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No sound from 16-46+

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Thomas_Berg, Feb 7, 2002.

  1. Thomas_Berg

    Thomas_Berg Screenwriter

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    i just got everything in, hooked it all up, turned up the volume and got no bass!! sound from the speakers is normal and i have triple-checked everything on my Onkyo 595, but still no sound from the sub! here's what i've got:

    DVD in working Dolby Digital

    ==> Onkyo 595 (settings: subwoofer=yes, speakers set to small)

    ==> BetterCables connect to input 1 on the S1000 (in stereo mode)

    ==> 16-46CS+ with 14 gauge speaker wire (banana on the S1000 side and bare wire on the sub side)

    something i noticed: there is only the 'power' light that's lit on the S1000's front. should other lights be on? the volume on the amp is turned up halfway.

    what's wrong here?? i know (well, i hope) that i'm doing something wrong, so what do you think it is?
     
  2. Thomas_Berg

    Thomas_Berg Screenwriter

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    hrmmm...turned the amp off for a few min then back on, put the S1000's volume all the way up, set the sub to +12 dB on the Onkyo, and i got some bass. not nearly as much as my old 25-31PC's output, but i got a good amount of bass.

    my room is about 11x17. when i had the PC it was set at -4 on the receiver and the volume on the plate amp was about halfway up, and it gave me more SPL than i'm getting now. i have not calibrated anything, but leaving the speakers at the same level, the bass end is really lacking. am i still doing something wrong? (i checked the polarity...all's well there)
     
  3. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    [​IMG] Tom, I have been talking with Tom since Monday when I got my sub. I had the 20-39pc and switched to the 20-39cs+/samson combo. Check the post on hometheaterspot.com for disapointed with my cs+ and you should be able to get some info from there. Looks like you will be waiting with the rest of us! [​IMG]
     
  4. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    Tom I just got this e-mail back from Tom and this is what he had to say "Let me know how the setup/calibration goes over the weekend, we have a couple of guys running into this same issue with the CS+/Samsons....and I think it's an issue with the subwoofer preout of the receivers not matching up well to the *pro* style inputs on the Samsons. I won't know much more until I get a call back from Samson on Friday afternoon though." rest assured that Tom and Ron are all over this and they will get it figured out as soon as subhumanly possible! SVS for company of the year![​IMG]
     
  5. gene avallon

    gene avallon Stunt Coordinator

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    thomas
    what about bidge mode for only one 46.
    gene[​IMG]
     
  6. gene avallon

    gene avallon Stunt Coordinator

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    like I said elsewhere im going to test my 46s one at a time to make sure there good.the bass now is out of this world I have them hooked up in parallel mode.all lights are on expect the clipping hasnt come one yet even at 125db plus.

    gene
     
  7. Thomas_Berg

    Thomas_Berg Screenwriter

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    gene- i only have one of them. bridged mode yields no sound when i hook it up as it says.

    Bob- i hope SVS solves our problems, and i know they'll make it right. i'm in correspondence with TV as well; i know they'll make this work!

    btw- i have 10' ceilings if it matters. ~1600 cubic feet.
     
  8. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Hi guys,
    Yes...I've been working the phones with various receiver manufacturers,Samson techsupport...and a few of the more astute circuit minded folks in the country.
    What I'm seeing is the subwoofer output impedence of receivers is all over the place...anywhere from 10 to 36 to 50 k.(Denon is the lowest by a factor of 3-5 in my initial investigations)
    The input impendence of the Samsons is about 10-11k. the typical *plate* amp is in the 40-47k range if memory serves...
    Then there's also an issue of how much voltage each receiver can push out the subwoofer preout.
    So...having maybe 2% of customers running into some mismatch issues between the Samsons are their receivers we're doing our best to ...
    a)figure out the best method to remedy this
    b)get that method in place asap.
    I wish this kind of stuff happened overnight...but I think it will be late Friday or Monday before I can give anyone our "plan of attack" in this matter.
    Hang in there guys...we're not letting anyone rest...[​IMG]
    TV
     
  9. JoelO

    JoelO Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Tom,
    Thanks for all your hardwork in trying to get this issue resolved as soon as possible. I just got my 20-39CS+ w/ S1000 last night, and I too might be having the same problem w/ the other guys as I'm not as impressed w/ the SPL it gave out compared to my old 20-39CS w/ 280W Carver amp. I haven't fully calibrated the system though, but I'm sure I'm getting less SPL compared to the my old CS even w/ the S1000 close to unity gain. I'll play around more this weekend and update you guys. Hopefully there would be a fix already by then.. no pressure.. [​IMG]
    Joel
     
  10. MarkO

    MarkO Second Unit

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    REL had the same problem with some of thier subs. They had to add a 12 db gain option in adition to the normal 0 db gain on all ST models starting with serial number ST20001. Why cant the manufactures get together in a big room somewhere and talk "standards"?
     
  11. Thomas_Berg

    Thomas_Berg Screenwriter

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    thanks TV. i'll look for an email when i get back in town, as i'm leaving for New Orleans in a few hours. [​IMG]
    thanks to all again!
     
  12. Shawn Sefranek

    Shawn Sefranek Second Unit

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    Not as big a problem as Thomas is having but for comparison, check out these numbers.

    My old system:

    (2) 20-39’s powered by (2) 240-Watt Parasound Mono Amps.

    New system:

    (2) 20-39 PLUS series powered by (1) 500-Watt per Channel S1000

    On the old setup, the Sub level on my Lexicon DC-1 was usually set at –02 or –03.

    On the new guys I’m actually at closer to –00 or +01 at proper calibration level.

    Everything is working fine like the review I posted says, but I’m surprised at where the Lexicon is set.

    Considering the Amp is TWICE as powerful, I would have thought it would be LOWER.

    Both the dials on the S1000 are pegged at 0dB.

    Shawn S
     
  13. JeffreyMercado

    JeffreyMercado Second Unit

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    You might have to try something like this solution I read about the buttkicker "The Carvin amplifier requires 1Volt of signal input to get full power output. As a simple guideline, you should be able to increase the processor volume enough to get the clip lights on the front of the Carvin amp to light up. If not, you may need an additional stage of gain between your processor and the Carvin amp. For this we recommend the RCA amplifier, to be used as a preamp, model # SA-155 and carried by most if not all Radio Shacks in the USA. Retail cost is $59.95. Click here for wiring instructions." This might be the same situation.
     
  14. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Joel,
    Unity gain is your friend...
    Shawn, the power of the amp has about zero to do with it [​IMG] It's all in the impedence/voltage match of the processor and amp.
    Jeffery,good tip on the RCA unit...that might help as long as it keeps the signal clean...I'll check it out.(btw---your svs order shipped a few hours ago)
    TV
     
  15. Steve Stogel

    Steve Stogel Supporting Actor

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    If Jeffrey is right about using the RCA amp, just search for SA-155 on ebay. You should be able to pick one up for $30 or so (RatShack sells them for $60). I ordered one from ebay and got it for $25+ shipping, so it was right at $31. I had to buy one because my sub amp only has speaker level inputs, so I'm going sub out to this RCA amp (it's really for computer-type speakers, I believe...pushes 1.8W per side...RMS, baby!) and then the speaker level out of the RCA to my speaker level input on my sub amp. Didn't run into any kind of weird problems (grounding or anything else). Just hooked it up, and away I went. It's fairly easy to get out of sight (about 9" wide, 1.5" tall, and 5-6" deep). Seems there's about 5-10 selling per week, so you should be able to get one cheap (unless there's a huge flock of SVS owners needing them [​IMG] ). Good luck in your hunt for a solution, TV.
    Steve
     
  16. JohnMW

    JohnMW Second Unit

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    I just sent Tom V an email before I found this thread. [​IMG]
    I have the Denon 3802 and just hooked up my dual 20-39CS+ w/ Samson 1000. I have both knobs on the Samson @ 0db and my receiver subwoofer setting at 0. I am getting adequate bass, but it doesn't seem all that much louder than my old 16-46PC.
     
  17. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    John,
    Don't give up until we've had a chance to email a few times back and forth regarding your calibration procedures...
    One of the *fixes* SVS is working on is having Phil at Marchand put together a nice(clean)gain stage(0-15v [​IMG] ) for SVS. I didn't want to say anything until I heard back from Phil on some of the specifics...but if adding 15v to the signal doesn't help...it's time to look for a *flux capacitor* for your sub amp...
    If anyone knows Phil..they know he ONLY works with "audiophile" grade circuits. Hopefully we'll be able to work out an affordable solution for the 1-3% of the guys who might be running into this.
    The SA-155 looks to be a definite maybe though. I wouldn't hesitate to try one in the $30 range myself...we'll be lucky if we can price our own gain booster close to that.
    TV
     
  18. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    John,

    Something else to keep in mind is that the settings on your receiver are nearly irrelevant unless you have calibrated with a sound meter (apolgies ahead of time if you did this!). If you have used Video Essentials (or Avia) and a sound meter to calibrate your sub levels then we can see if you are running into the same issue.

    With well over 100 Plus subs in the field we have so far only run into a few setups doing this. Given the amps are totally different from most others, including our own PC plate amps, it's key to set a baseline with the usual test disks and a meter. Especially if you are replacing a high performance PC subwoofer, setting up a Plus system is not plug and play. It IS easy (if all is synching up right) but the receiver levels you ultimately use may be wholly different from what you had before.

    Ron
     
  19. Dan_Jones

    Dan_Jones Stunt Coordinator

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    I thought I'd never hear the word *flux capacitor* outside of the Back to the Future Series.
    Thanks! [​IMG]
     
  20. JoelO

    JoelO Stunt Coordinator

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    Guys...
    Got a question... if there's a problem w/ the impedance/voltage match of the receiver/preamp w/ the samson S1000, then how come there were not any complain of similar problem w/ the ultras??
    From my observation, those that were having problem w/ this issue are using Denon, Onkyo & Yamaha receiver... I think there was one guy who uses the Onkyo 898 that doesn't have the problem.. maybe it has to do w/ the lower end receiver? [​IMG]
    It's just weird that this problem never occur w/ the Ultras.. but only w/ the pluses.. or even if they're not using Samson 1000.. y is the problem occur only to the CS+??
    Joel
     

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