No Shivas-now what to use??

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Dean-P, Nov 3, 2003.

  1. Dean-P

    Dean-P Stunt Coordinator

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    "edit"

    Hi

    I just finished my 54l sealed and sold my old sub, to now find out that the shivas are sold out everywhere, what else could I use? At about the same price. maybe a DVC 12"? should I wait for the shiva?
     
  2. Jason_Me

    Jason_Me Stunt Coordinator

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    I would go with the Dayton Titantic MKII 12".
     
  3. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Dean,

    I'm an Adire dealer and have a single Shiva that I can sell you if you want it.
     
  4. Chad Kuypers

    Chad Kuypers Stunt Coordinator

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    Dean,

    You might like to know that the magnet on the Dayton DVC 12" is nearly twice as large as that on the Shiva. The 12" DVC uses a 112 oz. magnet and the Shiva only uses a 60 ounce magnet. I noticed this one day when I set one of each driver next to eachother just to look at what differences might exist. I was surprised to see that the Dayton DVC magnet was practically twice as large. I am actually staring at both of them right now. [​IMG]

    I would also agree with Jason's comment that the Titanic Mk II 12" would be a great driver to use. It has more xmax than either above-mentioned subwoofer. An even better option than that would be an AV-12 from Stryke Audio. I don't know what your price constraints are, but my vote would be for a Stryke AV-12.
     
  5. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    Dean,

    As Chad mentioned, the AV12 is a very good "upgrade" to a shiva. Much more woofer, but again a little more expensive. The AV12 and AV15 MKII will be ready shortly, but I am currently out of them.

    In the meantime, I do have a small supply of the SAE1204. These were our original answer to the shiva:

    http://www.stryke.com/SAE1204.html

    The SAE1204 uses the same cone and surround as the shiva. From there the similarities stop. It uses a cast alum basket instead of the stamped steel. It has a 2.5" VC instead of the 2" in the shiva for more power handling. The motor structure is much larger, giving much more motor strength. This give you lower Q systems for sealed boxes, and also works better to get you more low end response in vented and PR boxes. All in all, parts cost on the SAE1204 is nearly 2x what the Shiva is. The regular price on the SAE1204 is $109. It was much more woofer for less money than the Shiva. Unfortunately it never got promoted as well as it should have, so many people haven't heard of it.

    John
     
  6. Dean-P

    Dean-P Stunt Coordinator

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    Lots of options, I'm checking them out now...
     
  7. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    what is the differance between the av15 and the av15 mkII
     
  8. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    The main differences will be a dual spider system. The TS parameters will change slightly, but not enough to require an enclosure redesign if you have one built for the original drivers. If anything, the F3 point drops for vented, PR, or sealed alignments when compared to the original.
     
  9. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    For comparison sake I put up some info on the website showing the comparison between the original AV15 and the new MKII version. If someone wants to copy it over to here, feel free:

    http://forum.stryke.com/viewtopic.php?t=121

    John
     
  10. Rich-R

    Rich-R Extra

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    Can you use an av12 or av15 in a down firing position? Also, any recommended plate amps for either. Note, this would be my first project. rich
     
  11. Chris Carswell

    Chris Carswell Supporting Actor

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    Original AV15:
    Fs: 19.7hz
    Qms: 4.71
    Qes: .399
    Qts:.368
    Vas: 228L
    Cms: .25mm/N
    Mms: 260g
    Xmax 23mm
    Bl: 15.5tm

    New AV15 MKII
    Fs: 22.39hz
    Qms: 5.293
    Qes: .517
    Qts:.471
    Vas: 140L
    Cms: .143mm/N
    Mms: 353g
    Xmax 23mm
    Bl: 16.84tm
    ************************************************** *******
    To sum it up...
    The Increase in Fs and Qts may seem like a problem to some people, but in reality it isn't. The motor strength is still there, just the suspension is stiffer. The new woofer will now play deeper in the same enclosure size as the old. What you loose is efficiency. The efficiency does go down slightly, about 1-1.5dB. It's a good tradeoff though with the more linearity and reliability with the lower F3 points. Hope that help [​IMG]

    John BTW, will you still produce the SAE1204? What about the HE15? TIA!!!
     
  12. Steven Kephart

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  13. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    no 1 last q if i got 2 of the new subs and 2 of the old subs will they work togher in a ib setup?
     
  14. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    Well, let me answer the questions going back up a few posts. First, Rich, the AV woofers can be used in a downfiring alignment. The new suspension is stiff enough to handle that. As with ANY driver though, they will sag over time.

    Chris, I do still have the SAE1204's. The HE15's are also undergoing an upgrade process. They will feature one or more large faraday rings to get the inductance down and further lower distortion. More recent reports showing more accurate information actually show the original HE15 to have Xmax up in the 28mm range, and the longer coil UE15 version had Xmax measured up to around 35mm one way. TC now has some motor designs capable of 45-50mm Xmax with very good linearity, so there are a lot of options for when I get the HE15's available again.

    Stephen, there were issues of the VC rocking in some cases. The coil was very heavy for a 2" driver. We decided to have more longevity and reliability we needed new suspension. We could have gone with dual progressive spiders. I myself prefer the flat spiders more. There are really no non-linearities introduced. The flat spiders really don't act different until right near their limits, and they are capable of over 30mm one way travel. Xmech is not changed at all. The suspension limits and physical clearance of the VC all limit the driver to right around 30mm.

    Bryan, due to the difference in compliance of the suspension, I probably wouldnt' suggest using them all in the same system.

    John
     
  15. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    thanks for the reply

    i guess i will have to get 4 new ones when i do upgrade.
     
  16. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    What is voice coil rocking?
     
  17. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    Frank,

    The intention of the driver suspension (spider and surround) is to keep the coil/cone assembly moving in and out linearly without any side to side motion. There will always be slight side to side motion, but usually the gap is wide enough so that nothing touches. In some extreme cases though, the coil can move and touch the inside of the former on the pole piece, or the outside of the coil on the gap plate leading to a rubbing or scraping sound. Some of the drivers had this issue, so we upgraded to dual spiders for all future verisons to increase the reliability.

    John
     
  18. Sebastian

    Sebastian Second Unit

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    John,
    Any pre-order prices on the AV-12?[​IMG]

    Is the AV-12 being updated too? if so, any deals on the old style ones?
     
  19. MattD

    MattD Stunt Coordinator

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    The AV12 MKII and AV15MKII are back at the preorder prices $140 and $165.

    Can anyone spot me $140 [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Matt
     

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