No need for DIY 10" driver in 1.6 cu-ft does 114dB @ 21Hz.

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Seth_L, Jun 7, 2003.

  1. Seth_L

    Seth_L Screenwriter

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  2. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    At best it's net Vb is only ~half this. Out of curiosity I tried to find a set of specs that would yield 114dB/21Hz with only 450W, but even with a solid corner couldn't come close, not even with ridiculously low Fs/high Qts/Vas specs.

    Hoffman's Iron Law is still intact. A pity there's no law against such ridiculous claims.

    Caveat Emptor,

    GM
     
  3. Mark Fitzsimmons

    Mark Fitzsimmons Supporting Actor

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    Greg, to make it more unrealistic, I read on the website that its RMS figure is actually 300w.
     
  4. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, I noticed that, but since I consider any SPL claims as transient peak, the higher power rating applies. Anyway, either the RMS or peak rating is wrong since peak is 1.414x RMS, so I assume the 450W is rounded up a bit, but for my purpose it wouldn't make enough difference to matter.

    This guy must be related to, or at least studied the marketing philosophy of the late John Karlson, who made equally unrealistic claims about his cab design. [​IMG]

    GM
     
  5. Wes Nance

    Wes Nance Stunt Coordinator

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    Seth,

    You seem to have the same point of view as the protagonist of your referenced AVS thread, Eric Martello, a desire to believe the impossible.

    I can't believe you referenced that thread as an endorsement of that 10" sub. "Stereodude" is completely right, has backed up his position with facts, physics and even sim graphs (obviously took some time) and even tried to behave in a civil manner. The fact is that he is absolutely right, and it's only a matter of time before every person that wanders into that thread and knows anything about sub design weighs in on the matter.

    Physics isn't anyone's "opinion"- you can't, as Greg points out, violate Hofmann's Iron Law, sorry. I'm not saying the sub doens't sound good for the money, but the SPL claim at 21hz is outrageous.

    I'm no expert, but I have designed a sub from scratch with a driver that should bury that 10" driver, with a PR design, which should have more SPL down low, and it isn't even close to 114db at 21hz. I have also learned enough hanging out in these forums and reading, reading, reading, to have a basic grasp of the physics involved. All you would have to do was get the actual T/S parameters of that 10" driver to know the company was way overboard with their claims for performance.

    That said, if you ever get your Tumult (you preordered, right?) I'll take it off your hands for like $200 if you're so convinced it's a pile of junk.

    Wes
     
  6. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    Hmm, I took Seth's post as being tongue-in-cheek, hence the smiley face. [​IMG] Eric OTOH seems to just enjoy goading on an overly rude (IMO) 'stereodude'.

    GM
     
  7. VinhT

    VinhT Second Unit

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    I'm really surprised that someone (Eric) could be so misinformed. I thought the purpose of joining a forum was to learn from each other?
     
  8. Seth_L

    Seth_L Screenwriter

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    My post here was definitely "tongue in cheek". I'm most definitely still building my Tumult enclosure. I got my Baltic Birch yesterday. Hopefully I'll start cutting wood later today.

    And FYI, I'm the "overly rude" Stereodude on AVS. [​IMG]
     
  9. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Seth,

    Hey it matches your personality here too! [​IMG]

    Heh

    Hoffman's Iron Law may be Iron but you can easily pick two
    of the three criteria and build a small sub that will perform.

    You just need loads of power, lots of displacement and
    proper equalization. It's not the idea way to make loads of
    clean bass though. And no commercialy available $500.00
    sub is going to do that with a 10" driver...
     
  10. Seth_L

    Seth_L Screenwriter

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  11. Wes Nance

    Wes Nance Stunt Coordinator

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    Seth,

    You got me :b That's what I get for jumping in late at night!

    I am relieved to know that one of our own HTF members is spouting forth *correct* information over at AVS.

    Wes

    ps I didn't think you were overly rude at AVS. . .
    ppss I'll give you $250 for the Tumult [​IMG]
     
  12. Mark Fitzsimmons

    Mark Fitzsimmons Supporting Actor

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    Seth,

    I didnt realize you were stereodude. lol. I especially enjoyed his rip on your username, stating that it is outdated. I about died.

    -Mark
     
  13. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Seth,

    You know what I meant.. I sure as hell wasn't saying that
    sub was capeable of 114Db at 21Hz.. Hell it probably won't
    do 114Db at 80 friggen Hz [​IMG]

    But there are subs that can do tremendous output in small
    enclosures *cough* Sunfire... They are small, they have
    tons of excursion and tons of power.. Some also say tons of
    distorsion but I have never heard one to comment either way. [​IMG]
     
  14. Seth_L

    Seth_L Screenwriter

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    Brett,

    Somewhere around here there's a link to a page that shows the sunfire had 47% THD at 20Hz when it was playing at it's max SPL. I'll have to find it again.

    Edit: Here's the link. It's the sub the SVS is being compared to. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...02-part-2.html
     
  15. Seth_L

    Seth_L Screenwriter

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    It just gets better...

    Now he's making fun of me for believing that my QSC PLX2402 will put out 1600 real watts (as opposed to marketing watts) into a Tumult. This guy is completely clueless.
     
  16. Geno

    Geno Supporting Actor

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    ", and it appears that you can't handle the truth."

    OMG I burst with laughter on that one! what a maroon!

    also, I love the spelling from those guys,
    "You have more patients than I'll ever have!"!?!

    Are you a doctor? Oh wait you are THXULTRADUDE [​IMG]

    PS: I am so glad that HTF will not tollerate threads going to the extreme that that AVS thread went to.
     
  17. Jerry Parker

    Jerry Parker Stunt Coordinator

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    He also claims that speakers have some kind of signature sound??? That can't be measured either... RIGHT

    I can't believe anyone would be so ignorant. He probably enjoys getting a rise out of other people...
     
  18. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    Guys as much fun as this seems, let's refrain from taking potshots of members on other forums. Discussing the merits of the designs of the subs is fine, let's leave off the belittling that's going on somewhere else.
     
  19. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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  20. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Hehehe, pretty funny thread going on over there. [​IMG] Seth one piece of advice: put away the computer, calculator, and mathematical facts because we know the marketing BS is correct 100% of the time. [​IMG]
     

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