No Great Pumpkin this year?

Mark-P

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Oooookay... I’m not getting all the allure for live-broadcast TV. With the possible exception of news and sporting events, most of us never watch anything live anymore. For network broadcasts we just stream it on an app at our convenience, or if that’s not possible, then record it on a DVR to play back when convenient. And by the way are the network broadcasts still edited down to 22 minutes, or are the uncut?
 

Ejanss

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Oooookay... I’m not getting all the allure for live-broadcast TV. With the possible exception of news and sporting events, most of us never watch anything live anymore. For network broadcasts we just stream it on an app at our convenience, or if that’s not possible, then record it on a DVR to play back when convenient. And by the way are the network broadcasts still edited down to 22 minutes, or are the uncut?
I grew up in the 70's, when EVERYTHING was live-broadcast, and there was still something a little more special about having only one Sunday night to watch a 007 movie, than being able to dial it up on just about every streaming service because United Artists went out of copyright...

There's still the "event" feeling for watching the Oscars, or the presidential debates, or a TV finale, or something you know everyone's going to be talking about the next morning, but network TV itself used up all that goodwill trying to be a Corporate Entity.
That's why all specials apart from awards or generationally hallowed holiday Peanuts/Rankin-Bass specials became extinct, when networks refused to give up valuable franchise-series time.

As for "Corporate exclusivity", I remember when Ted Turner used to hold MGM's Chuck Jones Grinch special "hostage" on his own channels every year, rather than let the networks show them. That kind of stuff just ain't right, even if you did buy the disk years ago.
 
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Osato

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It's not about those of us here who stream and/or own the discs lacking access. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I don't think @Osato's reaction is extreme at all. You just don't seem to understand why the rest of us think this is an issue.

The point, as I tried to explain to you yesterday, is that having these on broadcast television provides wider potential access than any streaming service. I'm guessing from the content of your posts that you probably do a lot of streaming, which is great if it is something that you like and value. But just because it's up there for free for a short window of time does not mean that it will reach the same level of audience on the streaming service that it would have had it continued to air on network television. There are people who simply don't stream, or who can't afford the equipment and/or high speed internet access required to do so. Those folks are going to lose out for the foreseeable future without making a disc purchase or rental, and that is unfortunate.

Christmas debuted in 1965, Great Pumpkin in 1966 and Thanksgiving in 1973. They have aired on network television consistently every year since, first on CBS through 1999 and then on ABC starting in 2000. This will be the first year since I've been alive that the shows are not on broadcast television. I have the discs now, so I can and will watch them at my leisure, but that is still very strange and sad. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. It's a big deal for them to be gone from broadcast.

I don't see any problem with Apple controlling the subscription streaming rights. But I do think it is unfortunate that they took it exclusively. I understand why they would want that, but it's too bad that the licensors chose not to grant a broadcast window as to a network as well. There is a big difference between Apple paying to produce new Peanuts content which is behind their paywall (which they do) and hoarding the existing classic specials. I'd love to know what price Apple shelled out in order to get that exclusivity.

If streaming had existed when these specials were originally made in the way that it does now, and they had never aired on broadcast television at all, they would not have had anywhere near as much cultural impact and resonance as they have enjoyed over the years as network television staples. This is a great deal for whoever accepted Apple's bid for exclusivity because they undoubtably got a whole bundle of money. But I think that it is a particularly shortsighted long-term decision for the future audience size and commercial value of the specials. If they are not on broadcast television for several years, and then the owners wish to take them out to networks again when Apple's exclusivity runs out, they might not be able to command as much. Their disappearance from network TV will have meant that the holiday season traditions of watching these specials will have bene broken as a result of their absence, and once you break a ritual it could be very difficult to bring people back to it later. So, overall I think this isa very bad move for the long-term health of the brand and the specials.
Agreed.

I understand things are continuing to change too. It’s just disappointing to not have it air on tv for the reasons you stated. A tradition and a connection has ended.
 

Osato

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I sent a note to ABC to let them know of my disappointment. I know it will not change things but it’s good to say something in my opinion.

 
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JackieT

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I totally understand that viewpoint and it's a valid one. But times are changing. Families aren't flocking to OTA tv like they were decades ago to consume their entertainment. We live in a digital world now, and as the numbers are showing, many millions of folks are embracing it. So a move to a new digital home isn't going to be the shock like some are predicting. It's just where the media has moved on to. The days of little plastic discs to watch media on and poo pooing streaming are almost behind us and I feel bad for those that won't embrace the next step in home entertainment.
 

ChristopherG

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I totally understand that viewpoint and it's a valid one. But times are changing. Families aren't flocking to OTA tv like they were decades ago to consume their entertainment. We live in a digital world now, and as the numbers are showing, many millions of folks are embracing it. So a move to a new digital home isn't going to be the shock like some are predicting. It's just where the media has moved on to. The days of little plastic discs to watch media on and poo pooing streaming are almost behind us and I feel bad for those that won't embrace the next step in home entertainment.
I don't think the streaming versus physical media is at the center of this debate...
 

Malcolm R

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I sent a note to ABC to let them know of my disappointment. I know it will not change things but it’s good to say something in my opinion.

I don't think ABC has anything to do with any of it. I'm sure they'd love to still be showing the specials.

This is with the rights-holder of the specials trying to make money and apparently Apple was willing to pay the most.
 

David_B_K

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Until this thread, I did not know that broadcast networks were still showing those specials. I remember videotaping the original version of The Grinch one year in the late 80s or early 90s. My wife and I would watch that tape every Christmas. When it eventually came on DVD, I noticed that there had been cuts to the version I had recorded. I wonder if the Peanuts specials are also cut (presumably because there are more commercials crammed into a 30-minute timeslot than there were in the 60s)?
 

JackieT

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I don't think the streaming versus physical media is at the center of this debate...
The debate and argument seems to be that people are angry they can't turn on ABC to watch these classics.

But with the press of another button on their remote, they can still watch these classics. They just moved from one place to another.
 

Malcolm R

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The debate and argument seems to be that people are angry they can't turn on ABC to watch these classics.

But with the press of another button on their remote, they can still watch these classics. They just moved from one place to another.
You like to make it sound a lot easier than it is. First you need a high speed internet connection. Many don't have access to that, or cannot afford it even if it is available. Then you need some device that includes the Apple app, or whatever app is needed to access every specific service. Then you have to subscribe, signup, and pay for each service.

All this is not free "with the press of another button on their remote". I have no way of accessing Apple without buying a new Roku or similar device that includes these streaming apps, then paying ever more and more for content.
 

DVBRD

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Until this thread, I did not know that broadcast networks were still showing those specials. I remember videotaping the original version of The Grinch one year in the late 80s or early 90s. My wife and I would watch that tape every Christmas. When it eventually came on DVD, I noticed that there had been cuts to the version I had recorded. I wonder if the Peanuts specials are also cut (presumably because there are more commercials crammed into a 30-minute timeslot than there were in the 60s)?
ABC used to air two versions of CB X-Mas. There was an hour long version which presented the special uncut but paired it with another Peanuts special which no doubt was heavily edited. Then they had a half hour version that was heavily cut, with Sally's letter to Santa and Lucy complaining about Beethoven getting the axe.
 
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Jake Lipson

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This is definitely weird.

On Monday, once I found out the specials were now going to be Apple exclusives, I bought the Blu ray 3-pack of Great Pumpkin, Thanksgiving and Christmas from Amazon, plus the DVD of Be My Valentine. I saw that Easter Beagle was on sale for $10 something and thought about throwing it in as well. But the $35 I spent on the ones I did get felt like enough for now, and Easter Beagle isn't as seminal to me personally as the others. So I thought, "Eh, I might get that one later."

When they came yesterday, the Blu-rays were fine. However, Valentine had a broken hub and the disc was loose inside the case. It will not say secure. So I set up an exchange and Amazon sent me a new copy which arrived today. Weirdly, that one is also defective. At least the disc is secure in the hub, but the top part of the case won't shut. This isn't as bad as the other, but since I haven't actually sent back the first one just yet, I thought I might as well try one more exchange and take back both copies at the same time.

When I went to the returns page, I noticed that Amazon was no longer offering a new copy of the same item. They are only offering for the money to be credited back to my original method of payment. I thought that seemed weird until I noticed something else. On the product detail pages, almost everything Peanuts is out of stock. The Blu-ray 3-pack I ordered; the UHD counterpart; plus the individual Blu-rays of Great Pumpkin, Thanksgiving, and Christmas; and the DVDs of Valentine and Easter Beagle, all suddenly gone. No longer available for order form Amazon at all, unless you want a used copy from a secondhand seller.

Now, this could mean one of two things: either they have had a surge of orders for Peanuts titles this week due to this news, which caused them to run out. If this is it, WB will surely supply them with more copies soon, and let's hope that is the case.

Or, here's the worse thing that popped into my head: possibly, the exclusivity deal with Apple might call for the discs (which are released through Warner Bros.) to be discontinued.I think that would be extreme, but as others have already noted the availability for a streaming purchase through Vudu and other services has suddenly disappeared. So it isn't completely impossible that the discs could be taken out of print as well, depending on how zealous Apple is about their exclusivity and what their contract says.

If the physical discs are indeed being taken out of print, that makes this whole situation even more unfortunate and depressing than it already was.

Due to Amazon's extended return period, I don't actually have to send back the original Valentine with the loose disc until February 1 of next year. If I don't, I would just be charged the same price I paid for it this week again. Even though the disc is loose, it still is a disc of the special. Maybe I should hang onto it for a little while to see what happens. If the discs are going to disappear from availability, it might be worth something to pay the $11 and change again to have an extra which might increase in value if they become hard to find. We'll see. I do have until February to decide.

I'm definitely keeping the second Valentine for myself and won't send it back for a refund, even though the case won't close.
 
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JackieT

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You like to make it sound a lot easier than it is. First you need a high speed internet connection. Many don't have access to that, or cannot afford it even if it is available. Then you need some device that includes the Apple app, or whatever app is needed to access every specific service. Then you have to subscribe, signup, and pay for each service.

All this is not free "with the press of another button on their remote". I have no way of accessing Apple without buying a new Roku or similar device that includes these streaming apps, then paying ever more and more for content.
From what I'm seeing it seems very few posters here are struggling for money and most likely have internet speeds of at least 25mb+ or at least own a smartphone with most likely unlimited data. So I don't think getting a 25.00 Roku and spending a few bucks a month for something like Apple+ would be too tough of a sell.

The tougher sell is getting folks out of the "get off my lawn" attitude about streaming.
 

BobO'Link

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It's a *very* tough sell for those of us who absolutely will not purchase anything from Apple. I do my best to not add even a single penny to their bottom line.
 
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JackieT

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I am no fan of them either, but I don't make my life less joyful for something like a pointless "boycott" for me at least.
 

Mark-P

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This is definitely weird.

On Monday, once I found out the specials were now going to be Apple exclusives, I bought the Blu ray 3-pack of Great Pumpkin, Thanksgiving and Christmas from Amazon, plus the DVD of Be My Valentine. I saw that Easter Beagle was on sale for $10 something and thought about throwing it in as well. But the $35 I spent on the ones I did get felt like enough for now, and Easter Beagle isn't as seminal to me personally as the others. So I thought, "Eh, I might get that one later."

When they came yesterday, the Blu-rays were fine. However, Valentine had a broken hub and the disc was loose inside the case. It will not say secure. So I set up an exchange and Amazon sent me a new copy which arrived today. Weirdly, that one is also defective. At least the disc is secure in the hub, but the top part of the case won't shut. This isn't as bad as the other, but since I haven't actually sent back the first one just yet, I thought I might as well try one more exchange and take back both copies at the same time.

When I went to the returns page, I noticed that Amazon was no longer offering a new copy of the same item. They are only offering for the money to be credited back to my original method of payment. I thought that seemed weird until I noticed something else. On the product detail pages, almost everything Peanuts is out of stock. The Blu-ray 3-pack I ordered; the UHD counterpart; plus the individual Blu-rays of Great Pumpkin, Thanksgiving, and Christmas; and the DVDs of Valentine and Easter Beagle, all suddenly gone. No longer available for order form Amazon at all, unless you want a used copy from a secondhand seller.

Now, this could mean one of two things: either they have had a surge of orders for Peanuts titles this week due to this news, which caused them to run out. If this is it, WB will surely supply them with more copies soon, and let's hope that is the case.

Or, here's the worse thing that popped into my head: possibly, the exclusivity deal with Apple might call for the discs (which are released through Warner Bros.) to be discontinued.I think that would be extreme, but as others have already noted the availability for a streaming purchase through Vudu and other services has suddenly disappeared. So it isn't completely impossible that the discs could be taken out of print as well, depending on how zealous Apple is about their exclusivity and what their contract says.

If the physical discs are indeed being taken out of print, that makes this whole situation even more unfortunate and depressing than it already was.

Due to Amazon's extended return period, I don't actually have to send back the original Valentine with the loose disc until February 1 of next year. If I don't, I would just be charged the same price I paid for it this week again. Even though the disc is loose, it still is a disc of the special. Maybe I should hang onto it for a little while to see what happens. If the discs are going to disappear from availability, it might be worth something to pay the $11 and change again to have an extra which might increase in value if they become hard to find. We'll see. I do have until February to decide.

I'm definitely keeping the second Valentine for myself and won't send it back for a refund, even though the case won't close.
Sounds like you got the last two copies of their stock which is probably why they were damaged as they were shipping out all the pretty ones first. WBShop is also out of stock on most of the Peanuts products. I would say it's a run on the product similar to the Gone With the Wind incident except for the fact that it isn't that big a story, and I think stock may have been depleted for some time now and no one noticed. So my guess is that yes the Peanuts specials are going out-of-print on disc for the foreseeable future.
 

Josh Steinberg

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This is definitely weird.

On Monday, once I found out the specials were now going to be Apple exclusives, I bought the Blu ray 3-pack of Great Pumpkin, Thanksgiving and Christmas from Amazon, plus the DVD of Be My Valentine. I saw that Easter Beagle was on sale for $10 something and thought about throwing it in as well. But the $35 I spent on the ones I did get felt like enough for now, and Easter Beagle isn't as seminal to me personally as the others. So I thought, "Eh, I might get that one later."

When they came yesterday, the Blu-rays were fine. However, Valentine had a broken hub and the disc was loose inside the case. It will not say secure. So I set up an exchange and Amazon sent me a new copy which arrived today. Weirdly, that one is also defective. At least the disc is secure in the hub, but the top part of the case won't shut. This isn't as bad as the other, but since I haven't actually sent back the first one just yet, I thought I might as well try one more exchange and take back both copies at the same time.

When I went to the returns page, I noticed that Amazon was no longer offering a new copy of the same item. They are only offering for the money to be credited back to my original method of payment. I thought that seemed weird until I noticed something else. On the product detail pages, almost everything Peanuts is out of stock. The Blu-ray 3-pack I ordered; the UHD counterpart; plus the individual Blu-rays of Great Pumpkin, Thanksgiving, and Christmas; and the DVDs of Valentine and Easter Beagle, all suddenly gone. No longer available for order form Amazon at all, unless you want a used copy from a secondhand seller.

Now, this could mean one of two things: either they have had a surge of orders for Peanuts titles this week due to this news, which caused them to run out. If this is it, WB will surely supply them with more copies soon, and let's hope that is the case.

Or, here's the worse thing that popped into my head: possibly, the exclusivity deal with Apple might call for the discs (which are released through Warner Bros.) to be discontinued.I think that would be extreme, but as others have already noted the availability for a streaming purchase through Vudu and other services has suddenly disappeared. So it isn't completely impossible that the discs could be taken out of print as well, depending on how zealous Apple is about their exclusivity and what their contract says.

If the physical discs are indeed being taken out of print, that makes this whole situation even more unfortunate and depressing than it already was.

Due to Amazon's extended return period, I don't actually have to send back the original Valentine with the loose disc until February 1 of next year. If I don't, I would just be charged the same price I paid for it this week again. Even though the disc is loose, it still is a disc of the special. Maybe I should hang onto it for a little while to see what happens. If the discs are going to disappear from availability, it might be worth something to pay the $11 and change again to have an extra which might increase in value if they become hard to find. We'll see. I do have until February to decide.

I'm definitely keeping the second Valentine for myself and won't send it back for a refund, even though the case won't close.
It’s extremely unlikely that the streaming has anything to do with disc availability. What many people don’t realize is that Amazon doesn’t keep a lot of stock on hand for the vast majority of titles they carry. For catalog titles (vs brand new releases) it can be in the low double digits. All it takes is a couple dozen orders and they’re sold out. Now add the replication logjam currently happening at the big Mexico plant and the pandemic slowing every step of the process and all of a sudden, what are a series of minor and unexpected and brief delays and shortages start taking on the appearance of being a larger story than it is.
 
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John*Wells

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This entire discussion reminds me how fortunate I was to find the Holliday Specials on a 3 disc set last year in a Florida Wal mart .. The Set I have indicates the Distributor as Warner Brothers which made me wonder why HBO Max didnt have the rights ..But thats a Moot point now
 

David Norman

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Well, pushed me finally into the 4K set with Digital copies. Ordered from BBY and should be here by Friday. It looks like they sold out sometime since last night

Avoid Apple. avoid Amazon delayed shipping, and I had a $20 RZ cert so I can pretend it's a BF doorbuster.
 
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