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No DTS on any of the big summer blockbuster DVDs? (1 Viewer)

Jason Seaver

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Brent,

That would be a great theory if the only, or even primary, market for movies on DVD was "HT enthusiasts". But, you're a niche. A lucrative niche, but the number of people for whom no DTS is a deal-breaker is smaller than those who are easily impressed by a long list of special features.
 

Chad Ferguson

Supporting Actor
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Me, being a basic consumer, I prefer to have the choice then not have it. Also, being as how these films are "summer blockbusters" expect rereleases soon enough.
thanks
 

Aaron Garman

Second Unit
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Oct 23, 2001
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382
This whole situation just stinks for us DTS fans. Sure, we got the Breakfast Club in DTS but I'd rather hear the Hulk destroy things in DTS than listen to Simple Minds and Judd Nelson in DTS.

AJG
 

Aaryn Chan

Supporting Actor
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I got one question:

Does DTS in Hong Kong titles are really DTS or bootleg DTS? I mean, are the DTS tracks really sound as good as the R1 ones's?

Thanks.

Btw, I must say that all releases should be Superbit'ed. Movie only + DD5.1 and DTS + 2.0 audio commentaries.
 

rutger_s

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Does DTS in Hong Kong titles are really DTS or bootleg DTS? I mean, are the DTS tracks really sound as good as the R1 ones's?
Yes, these are real DTS 5.1 Surround soundtracks. Universe Video & Laser Co. Ltd., Mei Ah, Panorama HK, Era Home Entertainment, and Deltamac Ltd. have been distributing titles on LD, VCD, and DVD for a number of years in Hong Kong.

As for the R1 comparison...its hard to do that when the main distributor in the US and/or Canada does not include DTS 5.1 Surround.

Franchise Pictures is a supporter of DTS audio but unlike Morgan Creek, they have no home video arm to produce DVDs. So when a Franchise Pictures film is distributed by Warner Brothers Pictures in the US and/or Canada, the home video rights automatically go to Warner Home Video. WHV produces the DVDs for Franchise Pictures and as such, no DTS audio.

Since Franchice Pictures licensed Driven and Angel Eyes to Universe Video & Laser Co. Ltd for DVD distribution in Hong Kong, UV&LCL included the DTS audio option. Its the same for Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever, Franchise Pictures licensed it for HK DVD distribution to Panorama HK who in turn added the DTS audio option.
 

Damin J Toell

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Their product is just not up to par with the DTS counterpart, which, no matter which sound format is superior in your opinion, is backed up by numbers in their favor.
What numbers are these, exactly? I'm guessing you meant the fallacious bitrate comparison which you've since edited out of your post.

DJ
 

Michael St. Clair

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I don't think picture quality suffers if DTS is included on a DVD. Superbit releases have DTS tracks and that doesn't seem to affect their picture quality adversely.
When did you get to see the original anamorphic digital master tapes, and watch the mastering and compression process to see the amount of filtering (softening, reducing detail) used to ensure that the bit headroom reduction caused by DTS did not cause cause noticeable artifacts. That's right, the lack of artifacts does not mean that the picture was not compromised, the picture is compromised first to ensure that noticeable artifacts do not occur.

Please describe this experience to us, in detail, so that we can completely understand how these movies could not look better if the DTS soundtrack was omitted from the mastering/authoring process.

I, and others, would very much like to hear more about what you have witnessed.

Waiting...
 

Michael St. Clair

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Me, being a basic consumer, I prefer to have the choice then not have it.
Well, I hear 'basic consumers' like pan-and-scan, dubbing, and all kinds of nasty things.

I'm not ashamed to admit I am more critical. When 'choice' reduces picture quality, I'm not for it; especially not when properly encoded Dolby Digital from the correct source is amazing. No, I'd rather have my cake and eat it too; amazing picture quality and sound.
 

David Judah

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The right thing for the studios to do is to take extreme care to make sure the DD track is presented with care and not compromised in any way. Then eliminate DTS tracks from DVD forever
That's an extreme position. I've seen "DTS fanatic" mentioned a few times of the other side, but I think with a statement like that you qualify for the first "Dolby fanatic" award.:)

I'm with you, Brent. It's nice to have a choice for the big blockbusters.

DJ
 

Tom J. Davis

Second Unit
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I used to be a big dts supporter, but after upgrading to front projection a few months ago I'd rather have the higher picture quality than the dts track.

That being said, I'd opt for no extras and dts anyday, but I'm afraid extras are here to stay.
 

AllanN

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If anything, the extra bit headroom stolen by DTS and commentary tracks will make the SEs have worse picture quality...unless they are intentionally degrading picture quality on the earlier releases.
Notice I said MULTI DISK SE, with only the feature on the first disk and extras on the other disks.
 

Michael St. Clair

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There have been others who have performed similiar comparisons in the studio with different results.
I'd love to hear more about this. The only studio situations I've heard of are Warner's careful experiment with the Lethal Weapons (plus Interview with a Vampire and Twister), and Bob Gale's thoughts on BTTF. I'd certainly like to hear more.
 

John Beavers

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Whether or not PQ suffers from the edition of DTS or not I don't know, nor will I speculate since I'm not involved in the mastering process. However, I did have the chance recently to compare the Ulitmate Edition of T2 to the Extreme Edition of T2. One having the DTS track the other DD only. I found the PQ on the EE to be noticeably better than the UE version. I found the DD track on EE to be noticeably less dynamic than the UE version. I found myself more captivated by the T2 experience with the UE/DTS version of the movie. In movies it's the soundtrack that drives the emotional content of the movie for me. DTS has an impact there that is a strong factor in my enjoyment of the experience. That's not to say that DD can't be done right, and produce sonic results that measure close to my DTS experiences. I have a DVD from Hudson Music in which the DD 5.1 mix of the music is downright reference level for any medium.

Now getting back to the thread topic. So the Black Hawk Down edition with DTS is not European, it's R3. My point still stands, why is one region getting the "full monty" on this release and the rest of us are getting "BHD lite"? Hey now, there you go, the slogan for the DD vs DTS controversy..."less filling! tastes great!" :D
 

Lew Crippen

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I don't think I would want to draw a final conclusion from one person and one test
And I’m sure from having read his posts, that he would not come close to maintaining that the test was the final word. Or that his tests should be used as the ‘final word’.

But I’ve still not seen any tests that had an even reasonable amount of control and methodology that concluded one system was better than another, although I have read of many anecdotal experiences claiming superiority for one.

It may be my substandard equipment, but I can’t hear the superiority myself. Therefore I’m up for picture quality and commentaries (and I really like the ones I consider good).
 

Michael St. Clair

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Whether or not PQ suffers from the edition of DTS or not I don't know, nor will I speculate since I'm not involved in the mastering process.
Dropping a half-bitrate DTS track from virtually any disc will allow at least a 10% increase in average picture bitrate and also to peak picture bitrate. On many discs, it will be much more than 10%.

Given a proper source, a 10% (or more) increase will definitely reduce subtle artifacts and/or allow greater detail, especially if the bit budget is factored throughout the whole process.

In many cases will that improvement be subtle, especially to those with typical consumer display devices? Sure.
 

Michael St. Clair

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I don't think I would want to draw a final conclusion from one person and one test
No, but that test carries more weight than most every other member comparison made here combined. Tests reporting a difference between soundtracks but don't include the original source are meaningless.
 

Malcolm R

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But would studios use the extra room? Aren't there a lot of discs put out today with lots of empty space? They have the room available, but they're not using it to provide higher bitrates for audio or video.
 

Michael St. Clair

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But would studios use the extra room? Aren't there a lot of discs put out today with lots of empty space? They have the room available, but they're not using it to provide higher bitrates for audio or video.
Some do, some don't.

Besides, leaving empty space only reduces average video bitrate. DTS reduces peak video bitrate, and there's no way to get that back...not even by moving all extras to another disc.

Regardless, the fact that studios may sometimes make other bad decisions is not a rationale to continue making a specific bad decision.
 

Runar_R

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There IS indeed a R2 "Black hawk down" which does include a DTS-track, at that is the scandinavian versions. The DTS-track is on both the 1-disc version and the 3-disc version (without the loss of any of the commentaries). I can't comment on the quality of the tracks, as I haven't heard them (not a fan of the movie).
You can check out the different versions here

As for the question of why some titles doesn't get DTS-tracks, I agree that it's all about one thing: $. I don't think are many who define the lack of a DTS-track as a dealbreaker.
 

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