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No 4K release for Gone With The Wind's 80th Anniversary?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Ken Koc, Aug 29, 2019.

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  1. moviebuff75

    moviebuff75 Supporting Actor

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    The scene under the oak, with Scarlett and Gerald was reformatted, but when it dissolves into the next scene, the miniature carriage jumps twice. Did they remove frames when reformatting the film, or was this a mistake in the original optical composite?
     
  2. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Cinematographer

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    OZ is eternal and people will always buy it for their kids. I think we, unfortunately, need to face the fact that the audience for GWTW is aging and more specific. You may disagree with me but I think that, in today's hypersensitive times, it's also becoming regarded as something of a problematic relic by younger audiences.
     
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  3. Nick*Z

    Nick*Z Screenwriter

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    Dear Will: If that's true then the times decidedly need to be brought back in line with the fact GWTW is not a production of today, but of a yester-world in which racial biases were, if not acceptable, then decidedly tolerated. And Selznick, incredibly sensitive to the plight of the Jews in Europe then, was shaken to reconsider what some of the incidents, as depicted in Mitchell's novel likely meant to Blacks in America. There are memos devoted to Selznick's consternation on this subject alone. As such, he removed all references in the novel to the Ku Klux Klan and excising the 'n' word too, plus depictions of a whipping and references to a lynching.

    Indeed, the word 'darkie' only appears twice in the movie, once as part of Gable's faux-drunken revelry, returning to Melanie's with a wounded Ashley on his arm; the other, when Gable's Rhett is about to usher Scarlett, Melanie and Prissie by carriage through the already afire streets of Atlanta. And to suggest GWTW stirs the specter of racism with an indiscriminate stick, making light of racial politics in America circa 1939 is just a very idiotic and misguided assumption. Aside: not that you did this, Will. Just my two cents worth.

    While no one can deny Prissie is a little less than forthcoming in the brains department, played by Butterfly McQueen as pure comic relief, her performance is more than counterbalanced by Hattie McDaniel's superb and Oscar-worthy turn as the forthright Mammy who is, among other things, the voice of reason, Scarlett's conscience, Melanie's confidant, and Rhett's greatest champion; the one who is really in charge of maintaining Scarlett and Rhett's perfect world after the Civil War and their move into that ostentatious mansion in Atlanta. Mammy does soooooo much more than serve and is never servile in the process. Anyone who suggests Mammy is a racially loaded stereotype had best give their PC-brainwashed heads a thorough shake, because McDaniel represents something fine, even progressive, within the context of the picture's 'old south/new south milieu.

    So, no - if that's the reason WB did not release GWTW in 4K for its 80th it's a very myopic reason indeed, pandering to a generation and a time that truly is out of whack with America's once galvanized logic, dedicated to truth and justice. If there ever comes an epoch when GWTW is not considered the grand art of its generation - timeless and beloved - then I think it will sincerely be time to reconsider if the puffed out moralizing all out of proportion inculcated in America today is, in fact, progressive-thinking or mere brainwashing run amok, and not worth keeping.

    So, I'll chose to believe WB did not release a 4K of GWTW right now because doing 4K restorations is costly enough, and one per fiscal quarter of a time-honored classic was enough. As Oz is so obviously beloved by millions, regardless of age, creed, sex or race, it won the coin toss. And although I'll concur with Robert Harris here, that the original elements likely need a lot more massaging to ready them for UHD, I am just a tad more optimistic about what the future might hold for a remastered GWTW in 4K - given the appropriate time and money correctly spent. We'll see GWTW in 4K eventually. And I am certain it will look miraculous as never before. Here's to hoping, anyway.
     
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  4. Message #124 of 183 Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Cinematographer

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    Woah! I knew as soon as I hit enter that this would happen and someone would take ME to task for bringing this up. Please don't shoot the messenger here. GWTW is probably my favorite movie and I can actually quote it line for line along with the onscreen cast (and have done it as a party piece on more than one occasion.)

    Your argument is not with me. Make the argument all you want but you can't deny that, in our current climate, GWTW is something of a harder sell than it once was. We can pretend it's not happening, but it is.

    ALL that I was doing was answering a possible reason as to why OZ was a safer 4K bet than GWTW for sales in 2019 and why one might get a release based on potential buyers while the other doesn't necessarily have the same guarantee. It's a possible reason why ONE got the investment over the other. Trust me, I hope I'm wrong.
     
  5. GWTWTOO

    GWTWTOO Extra

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    While controversial, let's not ignore the fact that GWTW in January and February became Fathom Events' highest grossing classic movie presentation of all time. Take a look at the other remarkable films that have been shown, including "The Wizard of Oz" and you'll see what an achievement that was. In fact GWTW has enjoyed many successful engagements this year and the audiences included people of all ages. So, though it is controversial, I very much doubt this is why it is not being released on 4k.
     
  6. Message #126 of 183 Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    PMF

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    If I was incorrect in my own readings and interpretations of the preceding posts then I, for one, would actually be thrilled.
    Make no mistakes, if more can be elicited from a 4K/UHD of GWTW;
    while also maintaining the integrity of Victor Fleming and Ernest Haller's original designs;
    then each and all at HTF can count me in.
     
  7. Paul Rossen

    Paul Rossen Supporting Actor

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    As well as George Cukor's designs as he was the first director of GWTW.
     
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  8. Message #128 of 183 Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
    PMF

    PMF Producer

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    That is true. Alas, it was not my intent to be the one who flew over the Cukor's nest.;)
     
  9. bujaki

    bujaki Producer

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    How can one forget the man who basically designed GWTW shot by shot?
    William Cameron Menzies.
     
  10. GWTWTOO

    GWTWTOO Extra

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    Can somebody explain that to me? I saw the film 10 times this year and most of the time there were quite a few younger audience members. While I realize the film is definitely problematic, if there weren't a significant audience still out there for the film, it certainly would not have been so successful - so successful, in fact, that Fathom added several days to the original schedule. Why is that reality being ignored?

    At any rate, I watched the Bette Davis blu-ray of "Jezebel" the other night and that more, in my opinion, has at least as many, if not more racially offensive scenes in it that does GWTW, yet it was released by WB.
     
  11. Worth

    Worth Producer

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    Gone with the Wind has been released many times, just not on 4K. Jezebel wasn't released on 4K either.
     
  12. darkrock17

    darkrock17 Screenwriter

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    Oz is more marketable than GWTW is basically the long and the short of it.
     
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  13. Message #133 of 183 Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Cinematographer

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    I think the issue with GWTW is that it presents a romanticized, whitewashed view of slavery in which the slaves know their place and seem content with the social order. The slaves are more of an extended family rather than property and the time period is written the way Margaret Mitchell wishes it had been. AS much as I love the film, I can't really find fault with that criticism. All I know is that when a group of people who share a common cultural heritage (that I don't) are offended by something, it's not my place to tell them whether they're allowed to be or not. All I can do is listen and respect how its making them feel, whether I feel the same or not.

    GWTW's phenomenal success makes it as conspicuous target because it is so well known. Most people (who aren't us) have never heard of JEZEBEL, yet most everybody at least knows OF GWTW.
     
  14. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Thank you for saying that!
     
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  15. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    "GWTW" has been a relic for younger audiences for eons. You don't have to be "hypersensitive" to feel offended by its racism.

    None of this kept it from being a home video evergreen, and I don't believe it's being kept off 4K UHD due to a desire to wait for the format to gain a greater market share...
     
  16. darkrock17

    darkrock17 Screenwriter

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    I haven't seen this film all the way through in quite some time, but from what I do remember the slaves on Tara at least weren't seen that much. Hattie McDaniel has the most screen time of any black actor in the film. Mammy, aside from having a stereotyped name didn't act like a black maid from the era would have.

    I personally don't see Mammy being a racial stereotype were as Butterfly McQueen as Prissy, I can't argue with that. What little time she has on screen ,she steals the show every time.
     
  17. Message #137 of 183 Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Cinematographer

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    ok

    Hypersensitive was the wrong word choice and I'll own that, but people are less willing to let things slide in today's highly enlightened culture.
     
  18. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Will, you are an eloquent writer and said that so beautifully and succinctly. I’m sure it would have taken me 23 pages to get to the same point :D
     
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  19. GWTWTOO

    GWTWTOO Extra

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    I agree with you completely
     
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  20. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    Yet Dorothy Gale can kill two green women and get off scot-free? And I say this after just seeing Judy.
     

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