Nintendo says that sales of its GameCube console are coming in we (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

Dean you are so right, hell I'd love to play the zelda games... but i will be damned if im going to buy a cube just for those games....

Count me in as a fan of Nintendo's First Party games as well, just not one who would buy a whole new system just for it. I admit I almost caved two weeks ago when Circuit City had the Cube + one of four games (Mario Party 4 would have been the choice for me and my girlfriend) for $129. But I would have still had to buy another set of controllers and another set of component video cables (hey XBox on my HDTV has spoiled me, I'm not going back to RCA cables!). If the package had been on sale for $99 (fat chance) I probably would have sprung for it.

And I am surprised by the XBox's games recently. I bought the XBox about 6 months ago (yeah I was pretty late in the game) because my fave games are the EA Sports ones which are cross-platform. I figured what-the-hey, in terms of pure horsepower and HDTV goodness XBox was in the lead so I picked it up along with NCAA Football and Madden Football. Dead or Alive 3 looked cool so I got that too. Well let's just say I've bought a lot more XBox games than I ever thought I would (Hunter The Reckoning, Simpsons Road Rage, Fusion Frenzy, All Star Baseball, and now the excellent Mechassault)! This is from a guy who is lucky to buy 4 games a year! And now I'm really getting intrigued by the whole XBL concept and will probably pick up the starter kit when the new version of Ghost Recon comes out.

So yeah, about 6 months ago my gameplan was XBox + EA games, then eventually Cube and Mario-games. The XBox's surprising (for me) appeal in terms of games (still trying to figure out how to get DOA Beach Volleyball and explain it to the girlfriend) and Cube's high price and (for me) it's only appeal is a few first-party games really changed my plans.

This isn't meant as a "singing the praise for MS" - I work close to a CS dept so I know all about the evils of MS . But it's just one explanation as to why Cube sales might be down. I bet there are others out there like me, who were planning to buy one, but were sidetracked by XBox's surprising variety of game offerings and Cube's relative lack of killer first-party apps.

I would totally buy Mario Party and Kart for XBox though if they ever abandoned consoles and went game-only.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The way I justify a game console purchase if I'm not sure about it is if I spend double the price of the console on games within the first year. For the GameCube, I've definitely bought enough games.

 

[Joe Szott]

I think the only real problem with Nintendo is that they aren't able to get many big third-party titles. Why? Because they haven't had a console be the most powerful/easiest to program for in a generation since the SNES (and even that might not have fit both criteria).

Morgan,

Not to labor the point too much, but from what I understand this just isn't true. The GC is fairly easy to program for, easier than the PS2 or N64. The reason no one will program for it is that you have to license those little discs and the formatting from Nintendo, and that ends up costing 3x as much as the licensing fees for Xbox or PS2. That's why developer won't develop for big N, the margins are cut much thinner by the higher fees and you have to sell many times more games to break even. It's purely a business decision by companies to pursue higher margins.

This is partially why Xbox sees more 3rd party support than big N with the same install base: Xbox is cheaper to produce a game for. MS also buys a lot of support, but not nearly enough to account for the GC/XBox library gap.

 

[BrianB]

that ends up costing 3x as much as the licensing fees for Xbox or PS2.

You got facts to back up that wild accusation? Yes, Nintendo's licencing fees were higher per unit, but I believe they've dropped a little on the GC to be more in line with Sony/Microsoft. I *highly* doubt it was 3X as much - that'd give costs of upto $36 going to Nintendo from a game costing $35 to retail...

 

[Dan B]

Bah...I was gonna type a long rant, but to hell with it.

What I do agree with is the fact that Nintendo needs to make some serious changes if it wants to be in the console business 6 or 8 years from now. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Joe Szott]

3x fee is overkill, I got a little excited there Probably more like $1-2 more, and I'd put another $1-2 for the special lil' disc format (no way is it cheaper than a standard DVD ROM). I'd have to look into that one further.

But even $2-4 is pretty compelling for these development houses. On a $40 game, that can equal 5-10% of the total cost and say 2x to x4 as much for the profit margin (so cuts your profit margin by 10-50%.)

 

[Joe Szott]

Here's one, GC fees aren't as bad as I thought. Looks like Xbox is still undercutting them by a bit though:

http://cube.ign.com/articles/088/088598p1.html

I can't find anything about the lil' disc costs.

 

[DaveGTP]

An old page, but with some interesting info about licensing fees:

EDIT: Jinx! I posted this at the same time as Joe!


http://cube.ign.com/articles/088/088598p1.html

Perhaps the most interesting piece of news is that Microsoft, in an attempt to gather more publisher support for its Xbox console, is charging a $8 licensing fee standard and possibly much lower than that depending on the caliber of the title presented. "Microsoft has been very accommodating," one major publisher told IGNcube today when speaking on behalf of fees.

For the price of 2 full price PS2 games, you can have a GC. Sure, there will be an extra $50 or so in extra controllers and cables (I use a SNES or GC/PS2/DC all in one cable due to running out of switch space for games). My philosophy has always been to own just a few games that I really like over quantity. And I heard a comment on the controllers...I think the GC controllers are the comfiest I have ever used. The d-pad does suck, but I don't really like the recessed PS d-pad either, especially for Street Fighter and its kin. The PS2 d-pad is a lot looser (and therefore better) but still is not really much better than the GC pad. In my opinion, any game requiring a lot of d-pad precision requires a Saturn pad adapter or a good joystick anyway (and I have a couple). I will probably own an Xbox eventually, too, when they get cheaper (although my fiancee says she'll kill me if I sell out to Microsoft). In all honesty, she bought the GC and paid for half of the PS2, but I am glad she did on both counts.

 

[Dave F]

Sure, anything could happen, but the rumors have been shot down numerous times.

And they keep popping up. There has to be a reason, and where there is smoke, there is fire.

-Dave

 

[Adam Nixon]

I would be super pissed as a Nintendo fan if I had bought a GC on launch day and found out the only games to look forward to over next 2 years were 5-6 titles.

Many could say the same about the X-box's line up, now that Halo 2 has been pushed back. I can almost guarantee that there will be a similar negative outpouring when November comes and people start cancelling their Live subscriptions --Ports of PC games and free mods are NOT going to inspire new customers to shell out the cash.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/02/comm...ming/index.htm

It's amazing to me that MS and Nintendo are almost the exact inverse of each other -- MS has survived on the strength of ported PS2 and PC titles with few exclusive killer apps, while Nintendo has loads of upcoming exclusives and little third-party content.

If those two companies ever got together they'd utterly decimate the gaming world, but I'm not sure I'd want to see it happen.

 

[Chris Duran]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I say good riddance to Nintendo's next gen console. Best thing that could happen to them would be to make games for other platforms, because that's the only thing they do very well: make games.

Why did Nintendo use that little teeny disc format instead of reguar DVD/CD size like every other game machine in the world? Why do they charge 3rd party folks up the wazoo to publish games on their system?

Nintendo is very good at making games, no one denies that, but why does everyone else fail to see some of the 1st's Nintendo did that most copied? The rumble in your PS2 or XBOX control, thank Nintendo, the 4 control ports I think Nintendo was the first to do that. Wireless controls? Nintendo. Nintendo is very good, at innovations, like Sega was when they made hardware. They do alot more then just make good games. Also why does everyone want only Sony and Microsoft to be the big players, the more people competing the better. Also I believe someone else already answered your 2nd question, but Nintendo choose a smaller disc to help stop piracy, and reduce long load times.

 

[Dave F]

Also why does everyone want only Sony and Microsoft to be the big players

Everyone? Maybe one or two people here. Saying that Nintendo may exit the hardware market is quite different than wanting Sony & MS to take over. I think most people here recognize that that "more competition" = "better games".

That said, why is this viewed as such a negative thing? It could turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to Nintendo.

-Dave

 

[Masood Ali]

Joe, the backbone of your argument has been Nintendo's proprietary mini-DVDs and high licensing costs. Unfortunately, it seems the Cube's licensing costs are on par with the PS2. The fact that the Xbox undercuts them both is because Microsoft often pours illustrious amounts of money at their pet projects until they succeed, often without profits from the outset. From all reports I've read, Nintendo has taken a much more developer-friendly approach with the 'Cube (in terms of design, ease of programming, lower licensing costs, project collaboration, etc.). Much of your argument would have applied much better to the N64 than the 'Cube.

Also, how many games does one need to justify the purchase of a console? If the PS2 has 30 excellent releases this year, would you buy all 30? If the 'Cube only gets 10 excellent releases this year, would you buy all ten?

Why not just buy the console with your favorite games on it? For me, I've purchased Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Super Monkey Ball (1 and 2), Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil, and NCAA 2003. I don't care if the PS2 has a hundred games the 'Cube doesn't have, especially if I'm not interested in those games to begin with. That's a personal choice. (As a counter-point, I must admit I'm looking into buying a PS2 just for GT4).

Are all the people calling for Nintendo to step out of the console hardware business only thinking out of conveniance for their own wallets?

That said, why is this viewed as such a negative thing? It could turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to Nintendo.

Nintendo's history is filled with numerous software AND hardware innovations. Nintendo designs their consoles with their own development wishes in mind (just look at the controller). To chop off the hardware side of their business would have an unknown effect on their games, but I remember Miyamoto mentioning his desire to stick to developing for Nintendo consoles during the remainder of his career. He would probably depart if the company went multi-platform because of creative differences.

 

[Allen_Appel]

How can a complaint towards the GC be that it costs too much? With the lowest console price and the multi-game bundling, it's the most economical choice. Nintendo is interested in making money? (gasp) Nintendo makes money from games and consoles, their company isn't propped up by other divisions' profits. I'm surprised not to hear anyone suggesting that Microsoft's undercutting of licensing fees smacks of "desperation" as well. Why is it assumed that Nintendo getting out of the console business will result in ported Mario and Zelda anyway? I'd imagine they'd just concentrate on GBA games and the next-gen handheld. Which could possibly utilize those mini-DVDs as well. Nintendo's games are great because they're made for and by Nintendo. A licensed Mario and Zelda? Gosh, I hope they're as good as Blinx and Whacked!

I'll be getting Ikaruga (GC), Brute Force (Xbox) and Jak II (PS2), so I'm doing my part to ensure the longevity of all the consoles.

 

[Carl Johnson]

If Nintendo gets out of the console hardware business there's no way they'd quit making console software, that would be like throwing money away.

 

[Allen_Appel]

"Throwing money away"? You mean like selling consoles for less than it costs to make them? Nintendo as a whole isn't hurting for profits. Nintendo might develop games for other consoles if they abandoned hardware, but it will never include their flagship titles.

 

[BrianB]

Nintendo might develop games for other consoles if they abandoned hardware, but it will never include their flagship titles.

Let me get this straight... You're saying that if Ninty got out of the hardware game, there'd /never/ be another Mario or Zelda related game in your opinon?

 

[Allen_Appel]

Never say never. But you're never going to see Mario et al on the Xbox. I think Nintendo learned a licensing lesson from that Zelda CDi fiasco. It's not like Nintendo wouldn't be making handheld-console games featuring those characters, or looking down the road when conceivably Microsoft could have abandoned gaming and the way was clear for a new Nintendo console. Nintendo isn't Sega and Mario isn't Sonic. Since they don't NEED to do it to survive financially, it would just be gravy, I doubt they would.

 

[paul h]

Im still amazed that so far no-one has really mounted a serious challenge to Nintendo by releasing a killer handheld system ... maybe Microsoft and/or Sony will at some point.

 

[BrianB]

It's not like Nintendo wouldn't be making handheld-console games featuring those characters,

Allen, you said "if they abandoned hardware" originally. So now you're changing it to "if they abandoned hardware except handhelds"? That's quite different to what you said before.