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Nintendo NX is now Switch (Official thread)

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by laser, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. laser

    laser Stunt Coordinator

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    It's a handheld-home console hybrid with cartridges!

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-26-nx-is-a-portable-console-with-detachable-controllers

    Potential specs (Nvidia Tegra):

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nintendo-nx-mobile-games-machine-powered-by-nvidia-tegra

    I can see this working even without competitive horsepower or AAA third-party titles, thanks to a shared library and broader mindshare from mobile, but the form factor and marketing have to be right on the mark...

    Hat, produce rabbit!
     
  2. Message #2 of 894 Jul 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    Doesn't surprise me. While some have been quite adament that this wasn't the case, it has been abundantly clear that Nintendo was heading in this direction for years now.

    In fact I predicted at this very forum the possibility that the NX would be a handheld that docks when you're at home to connect to your television, with the dock serving to power the system, provide HDMI out, connect wirelessly to alternate controllers, etc.

    It was just a question of if they would go this way, which really was the best way since everyone will have the next-gen Nintendo handheld and console with the purchase of a single NX system, or actually build dedicated handheld and console derivatives of the same basic hardware. The evidence of a merger in recent years between their two lines and the potential advantages of it were just too great to ignore.

    A Nintendo all-in-one system should help their chances significantly in the coming generation, although there are still concerns. For one, the hardware clearly won't be as powerful as next year's revisions of the XB1/PS4 and Nintendo will have to provide a convincing argument to developers and gamers alike on why flexibility is more important than a few more polygons.
     
  3. Clinton McClure

    Clinton McClure Casual Enthusiast
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    I don't care about horsepower, I just want fun games. If Nintendo does the NX correctly (read: have good games and 3rd party support) it doesn't have to be as powerful as the competition. Look at the Wii. It was basically a souped up Gamecube but since it was innovative, it went like Gang Busters.
     
  4. Message #4 of 894 Jul 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
    laser

    laser Stunt Coordinator

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  5. laser

    laser Stunt Coordinator

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  6. Race Bannon

    Race Bannon Supporting Actor

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    If it has Pokemon capabilities, they're in.
     
  7. Message #7 of 894 Jul 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    At least one rumor from the past couple of days says that it will also support Nintendo's mobile releases, so it very well might.

    I wouldn't count on a lot of 3rd party multiplatform support. If it's a hit, I'm sure that it will get plenty of attention with casual fare, Just Dance, and titles created specifically with Nintendo's hardware and its fanbase in mind. But I don't see too many AAA Xbox One and Playstation 4 releases migrating over.

    Just going to be too much of a downgrade and too much effort for a market that even when well supported in the past like Activision did with Call of Duty until recently, is still a modest sales performer at best. The architecture they've gone with, if Eurogamer is correct, is just too foreign and weak. And opinions on what the average Nintendo fan is interested in are too ingrained at major publishers.

    Hopefully a lot of hit mobile releases make it out here though. Lots of fluff, but some genuinely nice games appear in this segment as well like Horizon Chase. But all too often the best examples that deserve attention on dedicated gaming devices never make it out to PSN, XBLA, or Nintendo's eShop.
     
  8. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    If digital purchases are locked to individual systems still they can go pound sand.
     
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  9. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    The earlyish rumors were that it was incredibly easy to develop games and port others onto the NX, so I could see third party support being strong if that's the case. The less effort/cost to get something on more platforms, the more likely a developer is to do it.

    I think there's probably something off about all these descriptions. I kind of don't buy the home docking station idea as adding more power but keeping the console in the right price range. There's some major detail about all of this that will make sense of it but we don't have it yet.

    Controllers that pop out of the portable touchscreen...how are they powered? Assume wireless controllers with internal batteries, does that mean they can charge from the touchscreen portion? Then how much battery does that have? What kind of battery life do we currently get on high-end tablets playing graphics-intensive games? What new capability does the controllers popping off the screen add? I know some people used Wii U as a portable console (there's a good pic that Kotaku put up a few years ago of their editor-in-chief playing Wii U on the table in the airport) so maybe they're aiming for "portable console" rather than just a handheld (like 3DS) or stationary stay-in-the-living-room thing (like PS4/XB1)?

    Are those tiny pop-off controllers comfortable? Do they only have 4 buttons and a d-pad? What about the early rumors of dev kits that had controllers with screens and controllers without screens?

    I like the idea of cartridges and I trust Nintendo to do something innovative and cool, anyway, but I'm skeptical of these leaks in giving us the whole picture. At this point, I'm more interested in a potential leak about when they'll announce the thing.
     
  10. Message #10 of 894 Jul 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    The early x86 based rumors never had the backing that this one does, so I personally view that as virtually confirmed as having been false,. And I don't know about the dock adding more resources, but I also wouldn't be too surprised if something like that happens. It would seem to make sense given the nature of this device.

    As for charging the detachable sides of the NX, I suspect you just dock the NX with them still attached in order to charge all internal batteries, or plug the entire thing into any USB port with the sides still attached when charging on the go away from your television. I think the form factor revealed by Eurogamer makes sense with the NX being an all-in-one device.

    I think it's clear what they're aiming for. A hybrid system that plugs into your tv at home but can also be taken with you on the go as a dedicated handheld system, with all Nintendo software development being for a single device.
     
  11. LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    I don't see Nintendo pursuing this if Eurogamer's reveal is indeed accurate, but interesting none the less since it attests to the power that this chip has.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-could-nx-bring-gamecube-and-wii-titles-to-virtual-console-in-theory

    With Nintendo having not brought GameCube titles to the Wii U's eShop despite the native compatibility present and the lack of GBA & DS releases on the 3DS eShop (Minus the early GBA Ambassador downloads), I just don't see Nintendo investing in emulation solutions for more complex and powerful 2000's console hardware.

    I do feel like we'll see the Virtual Console concept maintained in some form though, ideally with an economical upgrade system in place for existing Wii U/3DS owners.
     
  12. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    I could see Nintendo doing what MS did in getting 360 games to run on Xbox One, which is to essentially recompile the code for new architecture. However, that wouldn't really be emulation and would be more like a re-release. The main reason perfect emulation was important for VC games of older systems was because those pieces of hardware had "quirks" that were endearing. But nobody remembers Metroid Prime on the GameCube as having some weird framerate stutters that made the experience more fun, so recompiling the code to run on new hardware wouldn't upset many people.

    However, getting Wii/Wii U games to run on a console that doesn't have a remote or touchscreen tablet would be...impossible. Or at least pointless.

    I could see the dock being just an extra little bit of internal guts to get games up to HD resolution, while the portable itself has a 720p screen and guts to match it. But there's still something very Nintendo about this that is missing. It's like hearing "the Wii has a remote control as its controller" and thinking it will look and function exactly as your cable box remote, without realizing it has motion control and specially-formatted buttons and a trigger and whatnot. I want to know what that is for the NX.
     
  13. Message #13 of 894 Aug 2, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    Recompiling in general isn't some magic push button. It's a serious programming job that for generations of gaming has been referred to as the task of porting a game.

    Microsoft had to invest a very substantial sum in creating a solution to automatically convert Power PC based Xbox 360 cpu instructions to equivalent x86 code for the Xbox One, something that I don't see Nintendo doing to bring forward GCN/Wii/Wii U code.

    For Nintendo to get perhaps the top half dozen 1st party Wii U releases on the NX, such investment makes no sense since the economies of scale just aren't there. It will be done the old fashioned way since it's substantially cheaper

    Adapting any Wii U experience won't be difficult from a controller viewpoint, I think.

    While I don't believe that I've seen it explicitly stated in rumors, that screen is surely a touchscreen. So you've just provided the hardware necessary for instance to replicate Mario Maker, one of those NX ports that's heavily rumored.

    And take a close look at those detachable controllers. Their form factor should be pretty familiar looking to you. We don't know yet if they have motion capabilities, but I suspect that it's a very safe bet.

    I still think that 720p is overkill for the screen. Look at how beautiful the Wii U's 480p display is or that of the Vita, which as I recall is sub 720p and yet also looks amazing.

    A 720p display might be important enough just to be able proclaim the fact that it's full HD for marketing purposes, but for practical purposes, 720p on a handheld screen is overkill in my eyes.

    I think the hook here is the dual form factor. This is your next-gen Nintendo handheld and console.
     
  14. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    What is the "old fashioned" way of porting things to NX? The rumors are that it has completely different hardware and no disc drive, so it won't be traditional backwards compatibility. If anything, I see it as just not supporting Wii U games at all. Or do you mean older games would run in a self-contained emulator like on the Virtual Console? The rumors also said that Splatoon, Smash Bros, and Mario Maker would launch on NX, and I doubt they're just VC ports because they all have a good amount of online functionality that they would want to preserve.

    The Wii remotes had more than just motion capabilities, they were also IR sensors for pointing. Unless the NX includes a sensor bar, that won't work. The Wii U tablet allowed for off-TV play of Wii games by having an IR bar embedded in the tablet controller, which I could see being able to easily incorporate in the NX handheld. But I also kind of think Nintendo isn't too worried about carrying over support for the games that would need it, anymore.

    The Vita screen looks great because its OLED (well, the launch Vita's screen was OLED, now its an LCD). I don't think the 480p screen is all that great, even more so because the video quality took a hit by being streamed from the TV. The New 3DS is 800x240, which is surprisingly low, but I'd honestly want a screen a little bigger than the top of a New 3DS and a little sharper.

    I get that the dual thing is the gimmick, but there's some piece missing that would make it all sensible. The descriptions are neat but I just feel like something is lacking.
     
  15. Message #15 of 894 Aug 3, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    I think no Wii U compatibility is a given. There isn't even an optical disc drive present in most of these rumors. I think some flagship Wii U releases will appear, but not via BC, emulation, etc.

    Rather, I think a small small number of select titles be ported over instead and sold as full fledged NX releases, hopefully at a discounted price in recognition that they're not brand new releases. Think of it as the NX version of the New Play Control line that brought forward GameCube titles to the Wii.

    Hopefully this is a bigger success, but same idea. Port quality last-gen titles that only reached a small audience to your hit new hardware for the millions that never had the opportunity to experience them.

    By "old fashioned", I mean that they'll have to go right down to the source code and adapt and convert it by hand for the drastically different NX hardware (If Eurogamer's reveal is correct).

    They can't just load up the source code at a workstation and hit a recompile button and have it spit out equivalent NX compatible code. That's basically what Microsoft has for the CPU side of 360 games (With the 360's GPU being emulated), but they spent millions and thousands of man hours to get there.

    The economies of scale for Nintendo to craft a program that automates the process of converting Power PC based code to be compatible just doesn't appear to be there. And I think Wii U emulation is out.

    There's a old saying that to emulate the previous generation of hardware, the target platform has to be at least 10 times as powerful as what you're emulating. And while the NX appears to be a leap ahead, I very much doubt that it's very close to being 10x as powerful as the Wii U.

    I believe that it very well will, possibly even integrated into the docking station itself that's then placed under your television (With hopefully a Wii sensor bar power port for those with situations where the NX dock has to be located away from your tv).

    I don't think they'll be providing motion functionality with an eye towards supporting older games. I think any form of direct compatibility with the last three generations of Nintendo console hardware is unlikely, even on the Virtual Console. I do however expect to see a few more HD remasters like we had on the Wii U with Zelda and a few Wii U to NX ports. But I do believe that they'll want the option of motion control for NX releases.

    Motion gaming, while likely never to be what Nintendo once envisioned it, is here to stay. To not support it is taking a step backwards.

    I have the LCD model and think it looks excellent.

    I don't have a top of the line smartphone or iPad, so perhaps I'd feel differently about the Wii U's gamepad display if I did, but I think it gets the job done just fine and don't really see what it would gain were it at a higher resolution.
     
  16. LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    While I think it's obvious if earlier rumors are correct, more rumors are swirling that the detachable Wiimote like sides of the NX indeed will have motion capabilities along with some form of force feedback.

    Got a feeling we'll finally get some facts about the NX soon. They've already said that it will be announced in 2016 and since I don't see Nintendo wanting to reveal the NX during the holiday shopping season when they're concentrating on selling products that are actually available, I suspect that they have something cooked up for September for an official unveiling.
     
  17. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Some game news site leaked a September 7th date for the PS4 Neo reveal and a September 12th date for the NX. Those both came from the same source, and the Sept 7th date is confirmed since Sony is having a PlayStation event that day. So only a couple more weeks, supposedly.
     
  18. Message #18 of 894 Aug 26, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
    LeoA

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    Good, I can't wait to see what form it takes, and how close or how far off all the rumor mill has been.

    Pre-launch rumors don't have a good track record for accuracy, so I suspect we're in for a good number of surprises. But my money is still on it being a multi-purpose dockable system for tv play with a handheld style form factor for use as a portable, since it makes so much sense for Nintendo's position.

    To add yet another, I read that Emily Rogers, an individual whose credentials are unknown to me but seems to be accepted by some as an insider of some sort, is stating that it will have a 720p 6.2 inch screen (Same size as the Wii U gamepad).

    Seems a bit much for a handheld, so I don't put much stock into it. Perhaps not that it's HD even though I'm confident it doesn't need to be HD on the go to look wonderful, but that's a pretty large screen for a handheld. Just lift a Wii U gamepad and tack on things like a CPU, RAM, internal storage of some sort, a cartridge slot, a heftier battery, etc.

    Nintendo's next-gen handheld might not be much for portability if she's right. So I very much doubt that she is...
     
  19. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Emily Rogers is a relatively well known inside scoop person, but the stuff she reports goes back and forth between ending up true and ending up false. Some in the community don't believe her at all but I think her track record is decent.

    I think 6.2 inches is a bit big, but I could see it happening if Nintendo is trying to attract the tablet/mobile gamer market. The big rumors are saying that Nintendo is using a next generation Nvidia mobile graphics processor in the handheld, which is lightweight and cheap but probably falls between the PS3 and PS4 in power. We'll see if that's the case soon.
     
  20. Message #20 of 894 Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
    LeoA

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    I buy into them positioning the portable aspects of the NX to go after the higher-end portable market like iPads and other tabets can be used for, with more console style experiences on hand rather than games that you can enjoy for 5 minutes here and there.

    So it doesn't need to be able to fit in your pocket since I think Nintendo realizes that portion of the portable business has moved on to general purpose smartphones that are already in so many people's pockets. The only way to regain any lost ground there is what they just did with Pokemon, and that's to join them with smartphone experiences of their own.

    It's the actual weight of the device that makes me skeptical of that particular rumor about screen size. The Wii U gamepad at 491 grams is reaching the upper limits of what's comfortable. Yet there's not much inside of it that could be eliminated with the NX system, just substantial additions in order to actually run games as a self-contained system.

    It has to be able to be held comfortably, although I suppose they might envision us propping it up and detaching the sides instead of actually holding it as a unit in our hands.
     

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