1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

NFL 2018-2019 Thread

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Carabimero, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 1998
    Messages:
    14,296
    Likes Received:
    2,412
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Of course he wants to finish the season with the Steelers. If he doesn't report by the 9th week, he doesn't get credit for a season's service and will be right back in the same position next year. No team is going to give Pittsburgh anything of worth in a trade that is better than the 3rd round compensatory pick they will get when they lose him in free agency, since he would only be a half season rental and require a lot of manipulation to fit into another team's salary cap. The time to trade Bell is in the offseason, when another team can negotiate a new contract before agreeing to the trade. That cannot happen right now -- Bell passed the deadline where he can sign an extension this season.

    I think Bell's in for a rude awaking in free agency. He turned down a contract with guaranteed money very similar to what Todd Gurley got from the Rams. I doubt he gets that kind of offer again -- Gurley is much younger, has never been suspended, and is not a pain in the ass to deal with. Also, htere's a huge risk that Bell will not perform nearly as well in another offensive system. Any eam that offers him Toddy Gurley money is insane.
     
    Reggie W likes this.
  2. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,050
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Agua Verde
    Real Name:
    Pike Bishop
    Well, you could plainly see Dave Gettleman's dream when he drafted Saquon Barkley. He was going to have that old NFL offensive fantasy in place...the triplets. A franchise QB, RB, and WR...Manning, Barkley, Beckham.

    Problem is Manning grades out as one of the worst QBs in the NFL over the last 6 years. Beckham is more concerned with being a celebrity than a football player and Barkley, who does appear to be wonderfully talented can't carry this team.

    So, as Gettleman sat there with the second pick in the 2018 draft with QB talent all over the place and the guy the Giants supposedly liked best, Sam Darnold, falling right into his lap...he took a RB.

    The 2019 draft is rich in defensive linemen. This explains why Gettleman likely felt comfortable passing on Bradley Chubb. He more than likely felt that he could land a good D-lineman (a position Gettleman loves) next season. And truth is he can and probably will because you know what the 2019 draft is not rich in? QBs. In fact there is likely only going to be one worth spending a first round pick on in 2019.

    What Gettleman has done here is likely made the worst choice for everybody involved when he drafted Barkley. Watching Barkley last night he was certainly awesome. Hell, he was the entire Giants offense. 130 yards on the ground, 99 more in the air...the kid scored a TD...the only TD the Giants offense produced. Barkley had more targets, more receptions, and more than twice as many receiving yards as Odell Beckham.

    So, how could I possibly call taking Barkley a bad choice?

    Well, first the NFL is now a passing league. You have to be able to throw the ball to win. They changed all kinds of rules and continue to do so, so throwing the ball is always your best option. The percentage of having something good happen on a passing play be it a good gain or a big penalty is now ALWAYS in your favor. For the love of all that's holy, DBs can't touch a receiver and D-linemen can barely blow on a QB without getting a flag. So, the one thing that makes a RB more valuable is if he can catch out of the backfield or occasionally split wide like a WR. I think Barkley can do this.

    Obviously, Fantasy Football is now a billion dollar industry and the NFL is fully supportive of this and they want monster scoring and monster offense because that's what works for Fantasy Football. It may be one of the worst things that has ever happened to the game.

    The problem is great running backs like Barkley or Bell just no longer have the value to an offense they once had. A TE can now carry as much value for an offense as a RB...something a guy like Dave Gettleman seems like he just does not grasp at this point. A RB is now a "complimentary" player, meaning he compliments your offense if you can throw the ball. Otherwise you get what Dallas is getting right now. They have a good RB in Elliott but he can't run because they can't throw. In fact I think one of Elliott's biggest plays this season was when they split him wide like a WR and got the ball to him that way.

    Then we come to an even bigger issue. RB's are typically at their best in their first 4 seasons. It is a position where the players suffer a lot of abuse. So, looking honestly at the situation the window to get the most out of having a guy like Barkley on your team is the first 4 years of his career. If the Giants don't have a QB then Barkley's career is likely going to be wasted there.

    The Giants don't have a QB. I don't know what Gettleman was thinking but Eli Manning was never great. He also really needed Coughlin around to constantly get him back on track. When Coughlin left we officially reached the end of Eli ever being even decent again.

    So, where can the Giants get a QB? Well, chances are they don't get one in the 2019 draft. That's Barkley's first two seasons playing on a bad team with a bad offense. You can likely add his third season to that as well because if they don't draft a QB in 2019 they would still be looking for one in 2020. And if they get their guy in the draft in 2020 that's likely a year to develop him and get him on track so best case scenario you have a good QB in 2021.

    If Barkley is seeing the same sort of game plans as he saw last night, where he was the entire offense, he is going to be one beat up player by 2021. You don't want to burn a good RB's first 4 seasons that way. Plus you have Carson Wentz and the Eagles in your division. They can and will throw to win and Wentz is by far the best QB in that division.

    Gettleman claims to be really high on rookie 4th round QB Kyle Lauletta. If this is true expect him to be starting some games before the season is over. Manning looks like he is ready to go over that QB cliff and his play is never going to improve again.

    If Lauletta is not a surprise good QB then how do the Giants maximize having Barkley on their team and not just beat the crap out of him in games like the one last night?

    Well, they could try trading for a QB. Of who is out there who might they be able to trade for next season? Well, rumors persist that the Ravens are going to move on from Joe Flacco. Flacco is basically a statue in the pocket but he does throw, when he can, a very nice deep ball. In fact he was once rated as one of the best deep ball throwers in the NFL. Odell Beckham would like this...if he remains a Giant. This could make the Giants offense, if not consistent, fun to watch and occasionally dangerous. Then if Gettleman was able to build a defense again they may actually be able to compete while Barkley was on the team.

    So, beyond Flacco who else is out there? Well, you have a journeyman like Sam Bradford who the Cardinals will likely jettison because they have Rosen. Who knows what Bradford has left and he needs a solid offensive line or he stinks. Not a great option.

    This probably only leaves somebody like Derek Carr who it would not be a shock to me if Gruden traded. Carr is not turning it around under Gruden and he is throwing some really bad picks that must be infuriating to Chucky. Carr is an interesting guy that once played like a franchise QB. Now he seems to have lost his confidence and I'm sure the Chucky stare and likely Monday meetings with Gruden are probably intimidating. I have not given up on Carr as a QB, he has the skills and athleticism you want, he's done it before, and he's young enough he could turn it around. Playing under Jack Del Rio could mess up anybody for a while.

    Other than those guys the trade options really plummet. Plus the Giants I don't think are a team that will look for a QB in a trade but who knows.

    What all this means though is that drafting Barkley when the Giants desperately needed a QB during a QB rich draft looks like it was...wait for it...a GIANT mistake.

    I mean Gettleman should have traded Beckham and now the best case, without a QB, scenario for Barkley would be to look at him as an asset and trade him as well. You can always find RBs that contribute...QBs are a totally different matter.

    Barkley would be great on the Eagles, the Packers, or even be in a better place with the Jets or Cardinals to grow with those young QBs. With the Giants and Manning he's in a really tough spot.
     
  3. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    39,707
    Likes Received:
    15,087
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    You couldn't have said that with fewer words.;) By the way, I wouldn't want to expose any young QB with that terrible offensive line.
     
    Reggie W likes this.
  4. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,050
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Agua Verde
    Real Name:
    Pike Bishop
    This is the part I am not so sure of. The Jets supposedly really wanted Bell and made the Steelers an offer they liked...and then the rumor is Bell squashed the deal.

    The thing Bell seems to want most is to be a free agent. I wonder if this means he has ideas on where he wants to go and play and maybe that he will even take a lesser amount of money to play in the place he wants to be. I mean if he was Super Bowl motivated I think he would be on the Steelers right now because the AFC is wide open this season. Sure the Chiefs look like the favorite but they have almost no defense and as awesome as Mahomes has been you can't count out teams figuring him out by the playoffs.

    If there is any truth in the rumors that both the Eagles and Packers asked about him I can't see, if he wants to win, why he would not want to go to one of those teams. Supposedly, the Eagles really blew-up the phone lines talking to the Steelers when Ajayi went down. Maybe Bell wants out of Pennsylvania entirely.

    I'm thinking you are absolutely right. Pretty much everybody in the NFL knows what he is doing. So, nobody has to trade for him because he is forcing himself into free agency. So, there is little reason to offer the Steelers anything in a trade unless you think getting him would win you the Super Bowl this season or you really want him.

    He could be huge on the Eagles and the only team I think really wanted him for the long term is the Jets...who I think also have massive cap space. So, if it is money he wants the Jets likely would and could give him the most. Cousins had the same situation when he was shopping his QB services...the Jets offered the most money...he turned it down to take a bit less and play for the Vikings because they looked like they would contend for a Super Bowl.
     
    Scott Merryfield likes this.
  5. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,050
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Agua Verde
    Real Name:
    Pike Bishop
    Prior to the start of the season it was reported that 28 of 32 NFL teams were attempting to make trades for offensive linemen. Tells you what the status of that position is in the NFL.
     
  6. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,050
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Agua Verde
    Real Name:
    Pike Bishop
    So, if you are a football fan you must have Monday, November 19 circled on your calendar. Hoping we get to that date with no injuries to the two teams because this game stacks up as a Super Bowl game in the middle of the regular season. On this date the Chiefs will play the Rams in LA.

    These are easily the two hottest teams of the 2018 season and this game should be a blast to watch.

    I would give the Rams the home field edge and the Rams are really the NFL's most complete team because they can also play defense. However, if you have watched Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs offense play, they do appear to be the best offense in the NFL by a good margin.

    Get the popcorn and the cold drinks ready for this one as at least if both of these teams do not make the Super Bowl we will still get to see them play.
     
    Johnny Angell likes this.
  7. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,050
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Agua Verde
    Real Name:
    Pike Bishop
    So, October is the month were we actually start figuring out who is good, who is bad, and who is ugly.



    The Good

    Obviously the above mentioned Rams and Chiefs top the good list. The Patriots are now on that list too after a lackluster September and being the only team to best the Chiefs so far. Believe it or not climbing onto the good list in the AFC are the Chargers, who sit behind only the mighty Chiefs and Patriots and will hopefully be getting back Joey Bosa in the coming weeks...so this team looks playoff bound and dangerous. The other team from the NFC that makes this list would be the Saints, who have an excellent offense and a pretty questionable defense.

    The Bad

    In the AFC the Bills and Raiders are in a steel cage death match to determine who will be the worst team. I think the Raiders will likely only get worse because I think their entire roster is available for trade with Amari Cooper possibly on his way to Dallas by the trade deadline. People say Gruden is intentionally tanking the season to begin his ten year rebuild project with some high draft picks...Gruden denies this. The Bills just have a serious lack of talent so they are just genuinely bad. Over in the NFC the worst teams are obviously the Cardinals and Giants. The Giants are supposedly dangling Eli Manning as trade bait as he is apparently playing his final season as a Giant. The question there would be who would take Manning. It seems the Giants are hoping to unload him to the Jaguars but this seems unlikely as the Jaguars for some bizarre reason gave Blake Bortles a giant contract and so are stuck with him for a bit and it would not make sense to spend money on renting Manning for a half season or so. The Jaguars have a good defense but not sure Manning would upgrade their offense even though Bortles looks pretty bad. So, who would actually trade for Manning where he would upgrade their offense? I don't think any of the bottom teams would want him, Manning has the ability in his contract to approve the trade and I think would like to go to the Jags but I think maybe the only two teams that may make just a little bit of sense for him may be the Buccaneers or the Bengals. Both of those teams have murky QB situations and their seasons are still in play. I think Eli will probably ride the Giants bench for the rest of the season at some point rather than get traded. Also making the bad list are the 49ers and Falcons. The Buccaneers should be on this list but they somehow made it to 3-3.

    The Ugly

    So, let's make this simple. Topping the ugly list right now are the Eagles as they are not playing up to expectations. However the entire NFC East is pretty ugly and the team that is heading the division, the Redskins, are doing so by winning ugly. I would also put the entire AFC North and South on the ugly list and the entire NFC North. The Vikings look like they will come out on top of that division but the Vikings did get destroyed by one of the worst teams in the NFL the Bills. The Packers face the Rams and Patriots over the next couple of weeks...that probably won't go wonderfully for them as both of those are road games and the Rams and the Patriots are really playing well at the moment. This should make for some fun football though as all of the divisions mentioned above will likely be slugging it out to determine who wins them up until the end of the season.
     
  8. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    39,707
    Likes Received:
    15,087
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Another lost season for this Giants and Raiders fan. I suspected that outcome, but was hoping that Gruden wouldn't screw it up. Well, looks like the plan all along was to tear it down and rebuild. The Giants need a QB badly.
     
  9. Message #49 of 425 Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    39,707
    Likes Received:
    15,087
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    With Cooper traded for another first round pick, the 2018 tank job is in full view despite the Raiders refusal to admit to it. It's time to trade Carr if they can get any valuable trade pick(s) for him. Then the question becomes if they can draft better than they have for the last several years? What a dumpster fire.
     
  10. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 1998
    Messages:
    14,296
    Likes Received:
    2,412
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    While I understand being upset about the Raiders throwing in the towel, getting a first round pick for Cooper is actually a pretty good deal for Oakland/Vegas, IMO. Now, whether Gruden makes intelligent use of the pick is a completely different matter.

    Supposedly Patrick Peterson has asked for a trade out of Arizona. I cannot remember the Steelers ever making a mid season trade, but this is one they should be all over. Peterson would be a great help to a defense that cannot stop anyone, and would be a huge upgrade at cornerback over Artie Burns, who couldn't cover Betty White on a route downfield. He and Joe Haden would make a formidable duo at the corners. Big Ben doesn't have many more years, so this is the time to deal picks for players who can help now.
     
    Malcolm R likes this.
  11. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    39,707
    Likes Received:
    15,087
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    TBH, I was shocked they got a first rounder for Cooper. However, the question still remains how well they're going to draft going forward for a team that's been awful at it for years. That's my real concern as I'm fine with them tearing it down, but can Gruden rebuild that roster with enough quality players. Right now, I'm looking at Gruden as being another Al Davis in which the NFL has passed him by and that's scary because I might not see another SB team in my lifetime if it turns out that way.
     
  12. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    39,122
    Likes Received:
    706
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    According to ESPN's news crawl, the Raiders now have 3 first round picks in the 2019 draft...
     
  13. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    39,707
    Likes Received:
    15,087
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Now what?
     
  14. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 1998
    Messages:
    14,296
    Likes Received:
    2,412
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    It's not a great QB class, so the wise move would be to concentrate on improving the offensive line and defense. Maybe during the draft trade one of the picks for a 2nd rounder in 2019 and a 1st rounder in 2020.
     
  15. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,050
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Agua Verde
    Real Name:
    Pike Bishop
    They have 5 total first round picks in the next two years and will kick-off 2019 with $74 million in cap space so Gruden is definitely remaking the team. Interestingly the Raiders have openly stated it seems that the entire roster is available for trade except for Derek Carr...so that seems as if Gruden is sticking with him. Or bluffing to raise the price on getting Carr but so far Gruden does not seem big on bluffing.

    In all the years Gruden talked about returning to coaching he kept saying he would only go to a team that already had a franchise QB in place and so when he went to the Raiders it seemed it was because they made him a massive offer and they already had Carr in place.

    So, maybe the rebuild will be around Carr rather than without him. Carr has not played well this season but the evaluation seems to be neither has anybody around him. Gruden always said that finding a franchise QB is the most difficult thing a team faces...so the question would be then does Gruden think he has one or needs one?
     
  16. Message #56 of 425 Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
    Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    39,707
    Likes Received:
    15,087
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    I'm not sure they have to draft a QB next year if they're tearing it down to rebuild as they can delay getting that franchise QB to the 2020 draft. From what I read today about Carr, I think he's a goner. Evidently, he has lost the confidence of his teammates and I take Gruden's positive comments about him as akin to perfume on a pig. So we went from a 12-4 team a couple of years ago with a bright future to a team that is now in a total rebuild.

    http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9349/derek-carr
     
  17. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    39,707
    Likes Received:
    15,087
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Looks like my other sucking team is trading off assets too as Eli Apple has been dealt to the Saints.
     
  18. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    39,707
    Likes Received:
    15,087
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    The Giants traded away Snacks Harrison to the Lions. Who's next?
     
  19. Message #59 of 425 Oct 25, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
    Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    5,050
    Likes Received:
    2,786
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Agua Verde
    Real Name:
    Pike Bishop
    Looks like it might be Landon Collins. There seems to be heavy interest in him. Rumor is Collins is also unhappy in New York and unhappy with the team.

    The Giants are dangling a bunch of players. They are not in the same situation as the Raiders, who will have plenty of cap space and a bunch of picks to begin their rebuild. The Giants need to clear cap space which means they need to dump anybody and everybody they can.

    I think Gettleman made a mess of things and he should have started the rebuild before the 2018 draft. He probably could have moved Beckham, maybe Manning while teams were looking for QBs, and drafted Sam Darnold.

    Now with a 1-6 start he's just trying to move players out the door to get to a fresh start.
     
  20. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 1998
    Messages:
    14,296
    Likes Received:
    2,412
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    I had to check to see who this guy was. I should have guessed that a player named "Snacks" would be a lineman. :laugh:
     

Share This Page