NFL 2016-17 Regular Season Discussion (1 Viewer)

[Carabimero]

Still that is a "what if" because with the Patriots expecting run bad things could have happened. They could have lost more than a yard on those plays. They could have fumbled. The Patriots could have run that jump the line play again on the kick, they have had success with that, and blocked the kick. The Falcons still held the lead. The Patriots still needed to get a touchdown and a two point conversion to tie. Had Ryan completed that pass on 2nd down they may have been able to take way more time off the clock and sealed the game. So, that pass play on 2nd down was a minor risk. Had it worked people would be talking about how brilliant and daring the play calling was. It does not work, they make additional mistakes and now everybody wants to say in hindsight they should have just ran it three times. I don't think that is the lock people want to make it out to be.

It's a lock. If nothing else, have the QB take a knee three times. Keep the clock running or force the Pats to call timeouts. Even if you lose four yards on three downs, it's still a very high percentage FG with your kicker. And even if you miss the kick, you probably still win because either the Pats have no timeouts or there's a lot less time on the clock.

As it was, the the Falcons did everything they could to stop the clock--sack, penalty, incomplete pass--and give the Pats more time to come back.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

It's a lock. If nothing else, have the QB take a knee three times. Keep the clock running or force the Pats to call timeouts. Even if you lose four yards on three downs, it's still a very high percentage FG with your kicker. And even if you miss the kick, you probably still win because either the Pats have no timeouts or there's a lot less time on the clock.

As it was, the the Falcons did everything they could to stop the clock--sack, penalty, incomplete pass--and give the Pats more time to come back.

Nothing is a lock. You have to run the plays and play the game and I would think it was a little ridiculous if they started kneeling down with almost 4 minutes left in the game. I think Shanahan called the pass play on 2nd down because if they got a first down then they really could have milked the clock. He was going for the win. Ryan messed that up by taking the sack. I'm sure that play was designed to be a single hot read and if he is not open you throw it away. Ryan scrambled instead, came off his first read and was sacked. That's on him. I think it is a bit unfair to put that on Shanahan. Now, as far as clock management and not letting the play clock run down on those plays...yes, I would say they could have done a better job with that but the thing is they had a commanding lead right into the 4th quarter. Also the numbers supposedly say the Patriots chances of coming back to win that game down 28 to 3 were only .03 percent. When they got to the 4th quarter and were down by 16 their chances of coming back to win were supposedly only .12 percent. It was not likely to happen. I think some people want to claim the Falcons gave us the greatest choke in football history but the truth is the Patriots had to make a near impossible number of plays to win that game.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

So the early Vegas favorites to be in next years Super Bowl are apparently the Cowboys and Patriots.

 

[Malcolm R]

Maybe, if the Cowboys' rookies can avoid the "sophomore slump". It seems like a stellar debut year by a rookie is sometimes followed up by a disappointing second season.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Nothing is a lock. You have to run the plays and play the game and I would think it was a little ridiculous if they started kneeling down with almost 4 minutes left in the game. I think Shanahan called the pass play on 2nd down because if they got a first down then they really could have milked the clock.

I believe the Patriots finished regulation with two timeouts in hand, so running two more plays would not have made as big a difference as people might think.

I think some people want to claim the Falcons gave us the greatest choke in football history but the truth is the Patriots had to make a near impossible number of plays to win that game.

On the (local) radio the other day, they were discussing the biggest comebacks/chokes of the past year (and there have been a lot). Their conclusion: The Patriots had the biggest comeback, but the Warriors had the biggest choke.

 

[Johnny Angell]

So the early Vegas favorites to be in next years Super Bowl are apparently the Cowboys and Patriots.

Maybe, if the Cowboys' rookies can avoid the "sophomore slump". It seems like a stellar debut year by a rookie is sometimes followed up by a disappointing second season.

I'm wondering if the Cowboys have become the franchise that thinks it can, but can't. How many times now in recent times have they made the playoff only to exit early. Who's coaching the team, Marty Schotenimier? (sp?).

 

[Carabimero]

I'm hoping the new blood on offense will put them The Cowboys on a new path. In both their recent playoff loses, a single play going the other way would have meant victory.

The original Cowboys of the 60s lost a series of heartbreaking games before they finally won a SB. They were only a play away (twice) from appearing in the first two SBs. Yet it wouldn't be until SB VI that they finally broke through.

I think the Cowboys have a 4 or 5 year window to win a championship. Sadly, what they don't have, is Jimmy Johnson.

 

[Carabimero]

I think some people want to claim the Falcons gave us the greatest choke in football history but the truth is the Patriots had to make a near impossible number of plays to win that game.

I think both teams made a series of plays that if either failed to make, the outcome would have been different. Atlanta gave the Pats every chance to win by not taking care of the ball or the clock, and the Pats took advantage of every opportunity. It was a perfect symbiosis of defeat--or victory, depending on how you look at it.

A lot of people criticize Shanahan for throwing deep on 3rd and one at their own 25 (the sack fumble), but it was a wide open touchdown if they pick up a block. Everyone seems to think that was the play-calling gaffe, but there was still too much time left and the field position didn't call for being conservative yet.

But with 4 minutes to go with the ball on the Pats 22, and it being clear the Falcon defense was gassed, I think the criticism for passing is fair. And I'm pretty sure this is what Kyle is referring to after the game when he admitted, "I blew it." He knows if he had just run the ball a likely FG gives the Falcons a two-possession lead. I admire Shanahan for admitting he blew it. He did.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Some other fun thoughts...

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I think both teams made a series of plays that if either failed to make, the outcome would have been different. Atlanta gave the Pats every chance to win by not taking care of the ball or the clock, and the Pats took advantage of every opportunity. It was a perfect symbiosis of defeat--or victory, depending on how you look at it.

Well, the Falcons had a 25 point lead so they had plenty of room there to make mistakes and still win the game. The Patriots had no room to make mistakes. They had to put it all together and they didn't until the fourth quarter. Their third quarter was not spectacular. Their scoring drive took forever, nearly 7 minutes when they needed 25 points to catch up. The Falcons defense could let them do that if they were going to take that much time to score because the Patriots were running out the clock for them.

 

[Johnny Angell]

The Pats made play after play and the Falcons did not.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I think the game classifies as both a great comeback by the Pats and a big choke job by Atlanta -- it's almost impossible to separate the two. Blowing a 25 point lead, which was unprecedented in Super Bowl history (and had happened only twice in all post season history) cannot be considered anything other than a choke by the Falcons. However, without New England doing everything right and taking full advantage of Atlanta's poor 2nd half defense, poor clock management and questionable play calling, it still would have been a Falcons victory.

Reggie, while I agree with you that nothing is certain, had the Falcons simply run the ball three times on that last series at the Pats 23 yard line, the odds were strongly in their favor that they would have ended up with a 40 yard or shorter field goal attempt. I believe the percentage of kicks made from that distance is around 95%, so if I'm the coach I am pretty happy with those odds.

I am strongly in favor of playing to win - not to lose. So, I have no issue with a team throwing the ball when ahead to move the chains and keep possession of the ball -- when the alternative to not making the first down is punting the ball back to your opponent. In this case, though, maintaining field position while failing to make a first down gives your team a great chance to go up by two scores with 3 minutes left in the game and leaving your opponent with no timeouts. It was a bad decision by Atlanta's brain trust.

 

[Dheiner]

I think the game classifies as both a great comeback by the Pats and a big choke job by Atlanta -- it's almost impossible to separate the two. Blowing a 25 point lead, which was unprecedented in Super Bowl history (and had happened only twice in all post season history) cannot be considered anything other than a choke by the Falcons. However, without New England doing everything right and taking full advantage of Atlanta's poor 2nd half defense, poor clock management and questionable play calling, it still would have been a Falcons victory.

Reggie, while I agree with you that nothing is certain, had the Falcons simply run the ball three times on that last series at the Pats 23 yard line, the odds were strongly in their favor that they would have ended up with a 40 yard or shorter field goal attempt. I believe the percentage of kicks made from that distance is around 95%, so if I'm the coach I am pretty happy with those odds.

I am strongly in favor of playing to win - not to lose. So, I have no issue with a team throwing the ball when ahead to move the chains and keep possession of the ball -- when the alternative to not making the first down is punting the ball back to your opponent. In this case, though, maintaining field position while failing to make a first down gives your team a great chance to go up by two scores with 3 minutes left in the game and leaving your opponent with no timeouts. It was a bad decision by Atlanta's brain trust.

I agree, and AT WORST, at least they would have forced NE to use a TO or 2. I sometimes wonder if there is some kind of Super Bowl mind-fuck that forces Offensive Coordinators to make insanely bad decisions.

Two years in a row??

 

[Carabimero]

"I blew it." Kyle Shanahan.

I think that quote sums it up. People argue that Ryan made a bad play or whatever. But with 4 minutes to go with the ball on the 23, Ryan never should have been in that position.

I admire Kyle Shanahan for admitting he didn't put his players in the best position to win.

 

[Johnny Angell]

I hate the Cowboys, but now that he's no longer on the team, I can feel a little sympathy for Tony Roma's star crossed career.

 

[Malcolm R]

I'm not sure what makes anyone think he has any talent for broadcasting.

I thought Simms was fine at CBS. I'm not sure why he's being pushed out for an untested replacement. Unless there's some kind of tension between Simms and Jim Nantz.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Yes, Romo had a lot of tough luck in his career with Dallas. He seems like such a nice guy. I've been a Cowboys hater my entire life, so I've always rooted against him when he was on the field. However, I was hoping he would end up in Houston or Denver and get one more chance to get to a Super Bowl.

 

[skylark68]

I wonder who is going to come to Houston... It's real tough being a Texans fan. Almost as tough as being an Oilers fan back in the day...

 

[Johnny Angell]

I'm not sure what makes anyone think he has any talent for broadcasting.

I thought Simms was fine at CBS. I'm not sure why he's being pushed out for an untested replacement. Unless there's some kind of tension between Simms and Jim Nantz.

I found that unusual that he's going right into the first string lineup.

 

[Carabimero]

I feel for Romo because it was obvious in his last four starts that the game action had slowed down for him, that he was reading defenses almost easily, that he had paid his dues and was ready for even greater things ahead. Then he got hurt. And hurt again. And then along came Dak.

It can be a cruel game.