NFL 2016-17 Regular Season Discussion

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Patrick_S, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    Well, you have to admit, unless you are a Falcons fan, that was the greatest Super Bowl in the history of the game. If you are a Falcons fan, sadly, that was the most crushing defeat in Super Bowl history. To be up 28 to 3 halfway though the third quarter and then have the opposing team shut you down while you allow 5 straight scoring drives and 7 straight scoring plays to them...wow.

    That was a game that lived up to the hype though. Those two teams really slugged it out but once again Belichick and Brady managed to do absolutely amazing work to keep their team in the game and make adjustments that turned it around. I don't think any team but the Patriots could have authored that comeback because in a Super Bowl when a team is down by 25 points in the third quarter that tends to be it...the team usually collapses under the weight of the deficit and the glare of the big game.

    I have to say that this really was an exclamation point year for Belichick. What he had to coach through this season showed, I think, that he and how he has built his staff has proven him to be the greatest coach in football history. I mean when you think of the "dynasty" teams of the past they were the same group of players...no matter the sport even...teams like the 49ers, Steelers...these teams had the luxury of being able to field the same group of great players. I mean they won the Super Bowl only two years ago but they only had 22 players left on their team from that squad. Belichick has had to do it with totally different teams, different starters, different coaching staffs. And while Brady has also sealed the deal on being the greatest QB in NFL history...Belichick just kept winning without him.

    So, Brady is amazing. Truly the greatest QB of all time but Belichick is some sort of football god. A true genius of his sport. I don't think Brady, the 6th round choice out of Michigan develops into a 5 time Super Bowl winner, 4 time Super Bowl MVP, and wins all those games and becomes a coach on the field without being mentored and coached by Bill Belichick. Drop Brady onto any other team and I think it is possible he never wins a Super Bowl. Belichick I think would have won Super Bowls, maybe not gone to 7 and won 5...but I think he would have managed getting rings even without Tom Brady.

    I don't care how big a Patriots fan you might be but you can't tell me that the Patriots had the more talented team out there last night. This is the part about Belichick that truly just stuns me. That Atlanta offense had far more talent than the Patriots offense. They had three WRs that are better than the Patriots starting WRs. A pair of running backs that are more talented than the Patriots backs. And the Falcons had the better offensive line! I know people in New England love Edelman, Hogan, and Amendola but come on...these guys are not as talented as Jones, Sanu, and Gabriel. I think any of those guys would start on the Patriots. Gabriel actually looks like the kind of guy the Patriots would love and he is the third receiver. Somehow Belichick and his staff get these guys that are players that have been cast off, bounced around, and nobody wants and turns them into players that win game after game after game. If you sent Jones or Sanu or Freeman or Coleman or Gabriel to other football teams...they would still be good, they would still start games, and they would still rack up stats. You send any of the Patriots skill players elsewhere...and they may not even start and if they managed to they would not be anywhere near as good as they are under Belichick and his staff.

    It's just amazing.
     
  2. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    So, there were two kind of crazy rumors that came out of yesterday's game...

    1. The Patriots are going to sign Brady to a contract extension and expect him to play another 4 or 5 years! The guy is 39. That is crazy. Granted he was the best QB in the league again this year, just won the Super Bowl again, threw the ball 62 times completing 43 of those passes for 466 yards...so, sure he is showing no signs of slowing down at 39 but come on. This means they will trade Garoppolo and boy is there a market for him so I would expect a first rounder for him and then some maybe.

    2. Kyle Shanahan is heading to the 49ers with a 6 year deal but he does have a stipulation in going there...he wants a QB and the QB he wants and is insisting the 49ers go after hard is...wait for it...Jimmy Garoppolo. Wow, does that screw Josh McDaniels if that happens. I'm pretty certain that McDaniels made himself available for a head coaching position this season because he thought the Bears or Bengals jobs would open up...oddly, they didn't so he removed himself from being available again. Had he gone to either of those places as the head coach with the Patriots winning the Super Bowl again and planning on signing Brady to an extension my guess is McDaniels would have been able to trade for Garoppolo...and I think he had that all thought out. Now, while he will probably put his name out there again to coach after next season...when the Bears or Bengals jobs may open up...he probably won't be able to land Garoppolo...unless the Bears actually do outbid the 49ers for him.
     
  3. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    What a crazy game. I was shocked that the Falcons established such a big lead -- they were completely dominating the game. Then, as if someone flipped a switch, everything turned around and the Pats just took over. Dan Quinn must have studied at the Andy Reid School of Clock Management, too, which didn't help Atlanta.

    It was great to watch Goodell present the Lombardi Trophy to Robert Kraft. That may have been the best moment of the entire night.:rolling-smiley:
     
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  4. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    Well, even better Goodell has to present Brady with the MVP today after all that ridiculous and stupid harassment and the media is so excited about that they had to move the presentation to a bigger room because so many media folks want to capture the moment of Goodell giving Brady the award.
     
  5. Johnny Angell

    Johnny Angell Played With Dinosaurs Member

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    That's what it seemed to me too, someone flipped a switch.
     
  6. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    That's all on Shanahan not Quinn really because he lets Kyle call the offense. I don't think the play calling on that series was so terrible in the moment because at that point in the third quarter they would not need to go into milk the clock mode and if they did people would complain they stopped trying in the third quarter. Shanahan wanted to go for the dagger to the heart and I don't think he thought there would be a series of blunders that actually moved them out of field goal range. Plus they still held a decent lead at that point that still required an amazing comeback by the Patriots.
     
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  7. Carabimero

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    The missed FG opportunity would have made it 31-20 with 3 minutes to play. It was an absolute no brainer.

    Quinn must have asked Pete Carroll for some play calling advice.
     
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  8. Malcolm R

    Malcolm R Executive Producer

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    Has anyone seen Arthur Blank since the game ended? He was showing off his old man dance moves in his luxury box around halftime, then had migrated down to the sideline mid-4th thinking he was going to accept the trophy, then was never seen again.
     
  9. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    I agree. A couple of running plays to milk the clock some more, followed by a field goal (assuming the kicker made it) and the game was over. And while Shanahan calls the offensive plays, it ultimately comes down to the head coach in that situation. Quinn should have overridden Shanahan's calls at that point. Give the Patriots credit for not panicking and not giving up, but Atlanta sure helped them out a lot.
     
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  10. 410 Feb 6, 2017
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    Carabimero

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    He's off somewhere trying to figure out why, when the Falcons had the ball on the Patriots' 22, they didn't simply run it into the line three times, eat clock, then kick essentially an extra-point-range field goal to make it a two-score game with less than three minutes to play.

    The poor man may never been seen again...
     
  11. Carabimero

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    Yes, especially Matt Ryan. In the second half, with a huge lead, he consistently snapped the ball with 10-15 seconds on the game clock. If he milks that clock, I think the Patriots run out of time.

    Everyone talks about how great the Pats are, but they still haven't won a SB convincingly. Having said that, yesterday was their most convincing win, IMHO. Brady is undeniably the best SB-era QB and Belichick probably the greatest NFL coach of all time.
     
  12. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    It's hard to argue against 5 Super Bowl wins and 7 appearances for both Bellichick and Brady, especially in this salary cap era. Runs like that shouldn't happen the way the NFL is setup today. It's an amazing accomplishment.

    Here's a fun fact. The last eight NFL MVP's to play in that season's Super Bowl have lost. The list:
    2016 Matt Ryan (Lost)
    2015 Cam Newton (Lost)
    2013 Peyton Manning (Lost)
    2009 Peyton Manning (Lost)
    2007 Tom Brady (Lost)
    2005 Shaun Alexander (Lost)
    2002 Rich Gannon (Lost)
    2001 Kurt Warner (Lost)
     
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  13. 413 Feb 6, 2017
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    Carabimero

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    Yes, people accuse Belichick of extreme hubris, but Belichick recognizes game situations and adapts his play calling. According to post-game interviews by both Ryan and Quinn, the Falcons threw in that blatantly obvious running situation because that's what they did all season (in other words, they couldn't adapt their game to the game in front of them).

    Hubris.

    A great coach, in my view (let's face it: even a high school coach), recognizes the game is likely won if he calls for the ball to be slammed into the line three times, no matter what, then tries a FG. You either eat clock or force the Pats to use timeouts. Based on what coach and QB said post game, the Falcons missed out on an easy FG attempt because of hubris.

    I could live with trying the kick and missing. But it wouldn't be easy for me to live knowing I outsmarted myself by never giving my team an opportunity to put away a Super Bowl they clearly deserved to win.
     
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  14. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    No coach is better at this than Belichick. He not only adapts to what's happening in the game, but also changes his team's playing style based on the personnel he has and how his opponent plays. The Pats have won at different times with a great running back (Curtis Martin), a great wide receiver (Randy Moss), and a great tight end (Gronk). This season they had none of those things. The only constant has been Brady at QB.

    In yesterday's game, it was obvious the initial plan for the Pats was to try running Blount up the middle. When that didn't work, they tried Dion Lewis with little success. After that, they tried White on a lot of screen passes, and that opened things up (White set the Super Bowl receptions record with 14). Meanwhile, Atlanta did the same thing all game long, and New England adjusted. The better coach won again.
     
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  15. Carabimero

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    Yes, the last drive in overtime reminded me of Bill Walsh's play calling in the 1981 NFC Championship--specifically, on the final drive leading to "The Catch." As painful as it is for me to admit, Walsh out-coached Landry on that drive much the way Belichick did against Quinn yesterday.

    Because of coach and QB, it was obvious to me the Pats were likely going to win the game when they won the OT coin toss.
     
  16. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    OK, so I know what situation you mean now. When the Falcons took over on offense with 5:53 left in the game on their own 10 yard line up 28-20. Ryan connects on two big passing plays in that drive the first to Freeman for a 39 yard gain on the first play and the second to Jones for 27 yards which puts the ball on the Patriots 22 with 4:40 left on the clock.

    After each big passing play Shanahan called a run with Freeman. The first run went for 2 yards after his big catch. The second run after Jones' catch he got stuffed for a 1 yard loss. So, two runs net 1 yard. Both passing plays however went for big yardage. They also lost an offensive lineman to injury on this series.

    So, this is the point where Shanahan on 2nd and 11 calls a pass. Ryan scrambles and gets sacked. Aikman then second guesses the call and says Ryan can't scramble on that play and take the sack...indicating he thought he should have instead just quickly threw the ball away to avoid taking the 12 yard loss...and also that they should just be running the ball at that point because the goal should be to at least get a field goal/stay in field goal range.

    Belichick calls a time out after the sack.

    Now it is third and 23 at the New England 35...not in automatic field goal range. So, that was the play...the call on second and 11 at the New England 23 that in hindsight Aikman thought should have been a run into the line. However, the Falcons at this stage were not having success with the run but were having great success throwing the ball. So, Shanahan called a pass play instead with Ryan in shotgun. Really, the part Aikman was right about was Ryan should have not taken the sack. If nothing was there he should have quickly thrown the ball away then they could have called a run on third down and attempted a field goal.

    So, now it's 3rd and 23 at the NE 35 and Shanahan calls a pass play again...this time Aikman is OK with this because he says they need to get some yardage back to get in a better position to make the field goal. After all earlier in the game Belichick already had called a play where a player jumps the line to block a kick...and got a flag incorrectly on it which Belichick rapidly pointed out and that officiating guy they have on FOX also agreed was a bad call. So, they are in the Falcons heads with the ability to jump the line to block a kick.

    Problem is the Falcons get a 10 yard penalty on this play for holding and this makes it third and 33 on the NE 45 and they are now out of FG range and need to throw on this play.

    So, really this whole series hinged on the second down call and that was the one call you could question. But Shanahan seemed to be riding the hot hand of his QB and the fact the the Falcons receivers kept getting open. So, I don't think in the situation you can say it was that horrible a play call on 2nd and 11 on the Patriots 23.
     
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  17. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    You do realize that the Patriots had to score 7 times to win that game while not allowing the Falcons to score once. Not only did they do that they did it in very convincing fashion that was not about the Falcons choking. That was honestly the most convincing Super Bowl win I have ever seen.
     
  18. 418 Feb 6, 2017
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    Malcolm R

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    SB is not supposed to be a blowout (which is what I think "convincingly" means in this context). Put the top two teams in the league against each other, it should be a close, hard-fought game. There is the occasional lopsided affair (like 2014's Seattle Seahawks 43, Denver Broncos 8), but it really shouldn't be if you truly have the two top teams facing off.

    And, yes, there's always a certain amount of luck involved in any game: coin toss, wind/weather, deflections, timing, injuries, etc., etc. So if you can keep it close, and get a few lucky breaks, you can win.

    I saw something on ESPN about some prediction formula which had the Falcons at 99.8% to win at one point during the game last night. Just shows you should never give up.
     
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  19. Aaron Silverman

    Aaron Silverman Executive Producer

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    Reggie is right. . .in hindsight, not considering the injured linemen or injured RB, it's easy to question the play calling. Some people are talking as though Shanahan actually radioed in "OK, let's take a 12 yard sack and then commit a holding penalty!" Also, the Patriots had all three timeouts in hand, so running the ball would not necessarily have taken that much off the clock.

    Being conservative on offense is not what got the Falcons to the Super Bowl.
     
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  20. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    First Super Bowl I didn't watch at all since probably the Packers/Chiefs game in the first SB. I just didn't think the Falcons had it in them to beat the Patriots and I'll be damn if I watch a team I hate more than any other celebrate another SB win. I hate the Cowboys equally too. Anyhow, I didn't read any comments about the game in this thread because such a discussion would only sicken me even more than the final game result. I also stayed away from ESPN and any other sports networks today. I'll probably do the same for most of the week.
     
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