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NFL 2016-17 Regular Season Discussion (1 Viewer)

Malcolm R

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That quotes Michael Lombardi's tweets. The NFL seems to disagree with him.

Former Raiders and Browns exec and Bill Belichick assistant Michael Lombardi wrote on Twitter that he’s spoken to people from other teams who called the league for clarification about the call and were told that the call shouldn’t have been made because “Dallas was not being deceptive.” The league says otherwise.

League spokesman Michael Signora said the call was the proper one, while noting that the rule has been on the books since 1955. Senior vice president of officiating Dean Blandino added that he has not spoken to any teams about the call and that it was last made in a 2014 game between the Redskins and the Cowboys, which contradicts Cowboys coach Jason Garrett’s contention that he’d never seen it called before.
 

Carabimero

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Alan, while penalties like that are frustrating, that event did occur much earlier in the game, so who knows what would have transpired later. Plus, Dallas had plenty of time to overcome the official's mistake -- in fact, they did overcome it, but Aaron Rodgers was able to pull another miracle out of his hat. Also, I recall some missed calls against the Cowboys in the secondary which also impacted the game negatively for Green Bay.

So far, I am 6-2 in my playoff predictions. I'm going with the two home teams this weekend. While I'm hoping for the best for the Steelers, I am expecting the worst. Pittsburgh struggles against Belichick and Brady, and no one is better at taking away the other teams weapons than Belichick. I want to take the Packers with the way Rodgers is playing, but with both Jordy Nelson and Davante Adams ailing, I think Green Bay will lack the firepower to keep up with the Falcons.
Thanks, I know what you say is true, but I was just starting to lose the pain in my gut and then Lombardi, who I believe, says the NFL admits it...

A bunch of the Steelers have the flu. So first NE gets a an inferior Houston team and now a sick Pittsburgh team. Ugh. Hopefully they will at least have to face someone of quality and at full strength in the SB, should they make it.
 

Scott Merryfield

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Thanks, I know what you say is true, but I was just starting to lose the pain in my gut and then Lombardi, who I believe, says the NFL admits it...

If it makes you feel better, just think of the real reason Dallas lost -- because they allowed a 35 yard completion on 3rd and 20+ yards. Those types of mistakes have the same impact as a turnover, but they do not show up as such on the stats sheet. A defense cannot make a mistake like that if it hopes to play for a championship. Granted, it was a great throw and catch, but a good NFL defense must prevent such a gain under those circumstances.
 

Winston T. Boogie

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These conference championship games should be dominated by offense as none of these teams have a good defense. They all have excellent QBs and can move the ball though. The Green Bay at Atlanta game might come down to last team with the football and not have a single punt the way those two teams play. Get the popcorn ready!
 
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Winston T. Boogie

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My picks...

Packers at Falcons - Packers. Both QBs really want this game. It would be huge for Matt Ryan to take it to the Super Bowl and Rodgers career, while no doubt one of the best in the game, has seemed somewhat stalled since the 2010 Super Bowl win. I actually think Ryan has the edge with better talent surrounding him on offense. You gotta think if the Seahawks defense could not handle Atlanta's offense...well...then the Packers defense is screwed because their secondary is basically awful. There were open receivers running all day long through Seattle's secondary. Dom Capers must be pooping in his pants trying to come up with a way to make his lousy DBs cover these guys. When you look at Rodgers weapons they really are not great and Nelson is still out. Adams is OK though and is playing but I do not see him as a premier weapon. I mean when I look at Green Bay's offensive weapons...none of them would scare me as a defense coordinator. So, technically, I think, on paper Atlanta should win this game. They are home, have an offense that can shoot it out with anybody and they are a very hungry team. So, why pick the Packers? Well, Rodgers run the last couple of months has been amazing. He was not so great for much of the season but somehow the Packers have found a recipe to make that patchwork offense work. I mean moving a TE to running back? And it worked. On paper they should also have lost to Dallas...who were also at home, have a better defense than Atlanta, and a very nice balanced attack that should have given the Green Bay defense fits. Yet, the Packers won. Rodgers was amazing in the game. With Rodgers the play can fall apart (and with the Packers it often does) but he somehow scrambles around and makes a throw that is a dagger to the heart of a defense. So, if this game comes down to one of these two QBs having to drive his team into a position to win...and it lines up like it should...Rodgers is the man. For the record...the Falcons likely are the team with the best shot...on paper...of beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl. So, I know you haters like that but Rodgers is an X-factor. The playground football thing is something that no coaching can really account for because you can't predict what he might do on any play. I would love to see a Tom Brady-Aaron Rodgers duel in the Super Bowl. It would likely be a wild game that would be one for the ages.

Steelers at Patriots - Patriots. This should also be a fun game. Roethlisberger is the best QB the Patriots have played all season including the playoff win over the Texans. This is because Big Ben did not play in the regular season game against the Pats...we got Landry Jones instead. Look at the list of QBs the Patriots defense has faced this year and it is utterly abysmal. I mean Russell Wilson was the best of the lot and he beat them. Plus in that regular season game Gronk played and like everybody else in the NFL the Steelers defense has serious issues handling him. So, this time Ben is back and Gronk is on IR. Really, again on paper the Steelers have far more talent on offense than the Patriots do. I mean it is actually not even close. As big of a moron as Antonio Brown is...he will be the best WR on the field. Bell is one of the best RBs in the NFL. The Steelers have better talent on the offensive line as well. The Steelers also have more raw talent on defense than the Patriots. The Patriots defense is certainly smarter than the Steelers D...and that's what they rely on...but in terms of pure talent, the Steelers have that. Everything with the Patriots generally comes down to their players are smarter and better coached than yours and that is certainly the case against Pittsburgh. In the duel between Belichick and Tomlin...well...Tomlin is not even in the same universe as Belichick. Which is not a surprise because this goes for pretty much the entire NFL. So, what we have here is a game of brains versus raw talent. The Patriots have the brains, the Steelers have the talent. We know the Patriots will come in better prepared and with a game plan that will be difficult for the Steelers to contend with and they are at home. The Steelers offense, on paper, matches up really favorably with the Patriots defense. The Patriots offense will need to be much more on their game than they were against the Texans. Malcolm Butler is going to have to be huge against Antonio Brown. Are we going to see more of Blount in the first half of the game...I kind of think so as I think the game plan against the Texans was all about giving the Steelers things to look at that they are not going to see in this game. So, if you go through the entire list of offense and defense, position group by position group...I think the edge goes to the Steelers in just about everything except QB (which is sort of a wash because both QBs are good), TE, and special teams where the Patriots I believe hold the edge by a little. The Patriots have a huge edge when it comes to coaching. So, the Steelers certainly have a shot in this game and most times I think you would pick the more talented team...but I can't see Brady having two bad games in a row in home playoff games, Belichick tends to always crush Tomiln when it comes to coaching, and the Patriots are at home.
 

Aaron Silverman

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I made a comparison of the Steelers and Pats points allowed vs. common opponents, and it was actually pretty close:

Cincinnati: Pitt: 16/20, NE: 17
Cleveland: Pitt: 9/24, NE 13
Baltimore: Pitt: 21/27, NE 23
Miami: Pitt: 30/12, NE 24/14
NYJ: Pitt: 13, NE 17/3

The offenses are very different. . .Pittsburgh relies on Bell and Brown, but there's not much behind them. The Pats don't have stars to match them, but they have two quality RBs and 4-5 WRs who are probably all better than anyone the Steelers will suit up other than Brown. Which kind of follows their philosophy over time: "Your top guy beats our top guy, but your third guy is not even close to our third guy." Should be interesting.
 

Scott Merryfield

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The offenses are very different. . .Pittsburgh relies on Bell and Brown, but there's not much behind them.

Pittsburgh has struggled to find another receiver after Martavius Bryant was suspended in the off season. Eli Rogers has shown some promise as a slot receiver, but he's been inconsistent. Ladarius Green was supposed to be the replacement for Heath Miller at tight end, but has been injured most of the season. Markus Wheaton has been garbage since being drafted. Heyward-Bey is fast, but has hands of stone -- same with Sammie Coates before he was injured. One more receiver to take some of the attention away from Antonio Brown would do so much for this offense.
 

Winston T. Boogie

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I made a comparison of the Steelers and Pats points allowed vs. common opponents, and it was actually pretty close:

Cincinnati: Pitt: 16/20, NE: 17
Cleveland: Pitt: 9/24, NE 13
Baltimore: Pitt: 21/27, NE 23
Miami: Pitt: 30/12, NE 24/14
NYJ: Pitt: 13, NE 17/3

The offenses are very different. . .Pittsburgh relies on Bell and Brown, but there's not much behind them. The Pats don't have stars to match them, but they have two quality RBs and 4-5 WRs who are probably all better than anyone the Steelers will suit up other than Brown. Which kind of follows their philosophy over time: "Your top guy beats our top guy, but your third guy is not even close to our third guy." Should be interesting.

It's interesting but I think those numbers on the defense essentially show that both teams played teams with anemic offenses and poor quarterbacking. I think it shows that those teams playing the Pats or Steelers could only muster so much offense and so that is what you got.

On their offenses...

If the Patriots could deploy their two TE attack with Gronk and The Black Unicorn...well...then what they could run is just unfair to other teams. Their running game gets better, their passing game more difficult to deal with, teams can't account for that kind of attack because most NFL teams do not have that in their bag. It is why the Patriots put such an emphasis on having a pair of TEs. No Gronk means the Patriots will run something different on offense and the RBs end up picking up the slack in the passing game. I actually do not think the Patriots WRs are a great group but they are very smart and can operate in a system that takes advantage of another teams weaknesses. The complex thing about the Patriots offense is the receivers as well as Brady are required to read and react to the defense. This means that a guy like Edelman, who is also expert on reading what the opponent is doing can make constant adjustments to get open...and the majority of the time he and Brady are on the same page and know what the other is reading. I don't think Edelman is great he just knows the reads and knows what Brady will likely read. That's very difficult and somebody like Chad (Ocho Cinco) Johnson could never adjust to it so he never was a factor in the offense. It's a huge advantage if your receivers can do this because it puts a defense at a disadvantage because now all the moving parts are not just running a route, going to a specific spot on the field but they can be going to three or 4 different spots and it depends upon what you do on defense.

This is why the Steelers defense have struggled against the Patriots offense. This is why Brady has 19 TDs and 0 picks against Tomlin coached teams. The Steelers do not adjust they tend to just try to out physical or out talent you. It's the same on offense. The Steelers offense is better when Ben extends a play by scrambling because otherwise they are just running the same plays hoping their guy beats your guy. With guys like Ben, Brown, and Bell that can happen a lot but it also means a team like the Patriots, that is really well coached, is going to know what you are doing.

I really believe the difference maker in this game is Belichick and his staff because they will almost always have their team better prepared doing things the other team won't account for, be ready for, and will struggle to adjust to. Plus the Patriots will adjust from 1st half to 2nd half and the Steelers might on offense but they tend never to on defense.
 

Carabimero

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The Packers beat the Cowboys and earned the right to play the Falcons. Having said that, I think the Cowboys would have matched up better against Atlanta and produced a more competitive Championship Game.

Still, I do think the two best teams in the league are in the Super bowl, but in my opinion the Patriots have yet to face a true quality team in the playoffs, certainly a team with all their weapons.

I think Atlanta will beat the Patriots. But they do have Brady, so we'll see.
 

Winston T. Boogie

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The Packers sadly failed to show up today. I think we all knew the Falcons offense was going to put up a lot of points against that Packers defense but I thought the Packers offense would shoot it out with them. Didn't happen. I do think the Cowboys would have had a better chance because they have a legitimate running game and could have slowed the game down more and by grinding with the running game kept that Atlanta offense off the field longer. Plus the Cowboys have a better defense than the Packers. I still think Atlanta would have beaten the Cowboys but it likely would have been a closer game.

I am feeling like if I were a Steelers fan I would like to see them make a coaching change. I honestly do not think Tomlin is a very good coach. He and his staff do basically nothing in a game to make adjustments to what the other team is doing. This has caused his Steelers teams to perform fairly pathetically every time they play the Patriots. Brady knows the Steelers so well it is ridiculous and once again he shredded them. He now has 22 TDs and 0 picks against Tomlin coached teams. Tomlin just does nothing to adjust to what the Patriots are going to do...absolutely nothing. He is one of those coaches that is a guy the players like, he likes to motivate, but he stinks as a strategist and he seems to have no interest in making adjustments EVER...forget in game adjustments he makes none. It honestly feels like he never even looks at game film. I feel for all of my family and friends that are Steelers fans but as far as I'm concerned the answer is firing Tomlin. The Steelers have talent but their coaching is NOT getting it done.
 

Carabimero

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I'm excited to see fresh blood in the Super Bowl.

I will always bemoan the '98 Vikes because I thought they were by far the best team in the league and Atlanta not that good. But somehow (and I have watched that '98 conference championship more than once), Atlanta made it to the Super Bowl. And of course got slaughtered.

The 2017 Atlanta team may get beat, but I don't think they will get slaughtered. In fact, if I had to bet money, I'd bet on the Falcons to win.
 

Winston T. Boogie

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Well, Atlanta does have a very good offense but keep in mind they have not played a team as good as the Patriots all season so it is going to be difficult for them. Plus they have not faced anybody like Belichick. It's going to be a good game I think.
 

Carabimero

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I am curious to see how Atlanta's defense chooses to attack Brady. Since they have two weeks, watching the 2007 Giants defensive SB game plan might be instructive. Of course, the Patriots have different strengths and weaknesses now, but that Giants 2007 SB defensive game plan was executed to perfection.

I do know that if Atlanta plays soft zones the way Pittsburgh did, Brady will pick them apart.
 
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Winston T. Boogie

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I am not sure that the 2007 Giants game plan is of any use. Most of the Patriots players were not even on the team that played in the 2015 Super Bowl. I think more than half that team is gone. Plus Coughlin was one of the few coaches that did well against Belichick (same coaching tree) and he had a good defense back then. The Falcons do not have a great defense so, I think their game plan should utilize what their players can do best and how the Patriots operate now. That in itself is difficult because they may be the only team in the NFL that drastically changes their game plan from game to game, features different players all the time, and makes incredible in game adjustments. So, whatever the Giants got in 2007 is going to be nothing like what the Falcons get a decade later.

I mean if they look at the Patriots game against the Texans, that defense did pretty well against the Patriots and frustrated Brady big time. However, the offensive game plan against the Texans was pretty vanilla and totally different than the game plan against the Steelers. So, it's like looking at two totally different teams. Obviously if they go by the Steelers game they have to take away Hogan which is basically their third WR and why would you focus on a teams third WR?

I'd say the Texans game is the most important game for them to look at in terms of dealing with Brady. The Steelers game is just ridiculous because Tomlin is a total bonehead so I'm not sure what I would take out of that. Maybe how the Patriots dealt with Brown but that was a pretty simple recipe and maybe what Jones will see in the Super Bowl.
 

Malcolm R

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The Steelers game is just ridiculous because Tomlin is a total bonehead so I'm not sure what I would take out of that.
Nantz and Simms even discussed this on the broadcast, how the Steelers play the Patriots the same every time. No changes, no adjustments, mostly the same zone defense time and time again.
 

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Yesterday was the first time I had seen Atlanta play this season, and I was quite impressed. While Green Bay was playing shorthanded with all their injuries, the Falcons offense looked unstoppable, and the defense wasn't too bad, either. I think Dan Quinn's experience facing the Patriots in the Super Bowl as Seattle's defensive coordinator will help the team prepare for New England. It could be an entertaining Super Bowl.

Reggie, you can forget about the Steelers firing Tomlin. The franchise hasn't fired a coach since 1969, and there have only been three head coaches during that span. I'm not sure what adjustments would have been made, as the secondary is their weakest spot with a lot of young, inexperienced players. A change from zone to man-to-man may have been even worse. Their only hope was to put pressure on Brady, and they were unable to do so (like most other teams). I do think the defensive schemes were more sophisticated in DC Dick Lebeau's heyday, though, and current DC Keith Butler hasn't been very impressive since taking over. If the team makes any coaching change, it would probably be there.

The Pats did a great job neutralizing Antonio Brown, and only Eli Rogers was able to step up as help for Big Ben. I'm not sure how badly Leveon Bell was injured, but it sure was disappointing seeing him throw in the towel after only a single play and then sitting by himself sulking on the bench. He hasn't been much of a team player the past couple years, with his two suspensions and then this.
 

Winston T. Boogie

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I was not impressed with Atlanta...basically because Green Bay's defense is terrible and their secondary may have been one of the worst in the league. They were certainly the worst defense in the playoffs and by far the worst secondary. So, it was expected that Atlanta would shred them. I just thought the Packer offense would keep them in the game. They didn't and Rodgers looked a little spent.

Atlanta to me, does not look like a great team. They look like a team with a good offense and a mediocre or worse defense that played in a division with bad defenses. So their offense was productive because their own defense was lousy a lot of the time and they had to put up points to stay in games. I think everybody is hyping them now and they will even more so during the weeks leading up to the big game. But I certainly don't trust them to perform. Playing the Patriots will be their toughest game and Dan Quinn last time he faced Brady in that Super Bowl allowed him to go 37-50 for with 4 TDs including a huge drive near the end of the game to go ahead and this was with one of the best secondary's in the NFL that year and a good defense. Now Quinn will face him with a bad defense, a secondary nowhere near the level of Seattle's and will depend on his offense to outscore the Patriots.

It could be a fun high scoring game but I am not confident the Falcons will bring their A game on Super Bowl Sunday. Ryan will likely be challenged in ways he has not been all season and will get looks from the Patriots defense he has not seen all season and that will confuse him.
 

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I am not sure that the 2007 Giants game plan is of any use. Most of the Patriots players were not even on the team that played in the 2015 Super Bowl. I think more than half that team is gone.

I think only 22 or 23 of the Patriots' current 53-man roster was on the team then. That probably includes Gronk.

And, as you said, I don't think Atlanta's defense is comparable to the 2007 Giants, talent-wise.

Obviously if they go by the Steelers game they have to take away Hogan which is basically their third WR and why would you focus on a teams third WR?

In no way, shape, or form is Hogan the third WR. He's second to Edelman (among WR) in catches and yards this season, and is number one in the entire NFL in yards per catch (and it's not even close*).

Hogan tore up the Steelers in the first half, then they focused on him in the second half, and Edelman went crazy. (Hey, they've gotta make ONE adjustment, right? :) ) They didn't have the personnel to stop both of them. Does Atlanta? I don't know. To be honest, I think the NFC Championship was the only game of theirs I've seen this season.

* Gronk had an utterly insane 21.6 YPC, but sadly did not play enough to make the official list.
 

Aaron Silverman

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I'm not sure how badly Leveon Bell was injured, but it sure was disappointing seeing him throw in the towel after only a single play and then sitting by himself sulking on the bench. He hasn't been much of a team player the past couple years, with his two suspensions and then this.

He didn't quit "after a single play;" he was trying to come back after being knocked out with an injury. He was probably sulking because he wanted to play but couldn't.

In fact, now he says he's been playing hurt for a few weeks, and actually aggravated the existing injury! The Steelers had reported that he was missing practice this past week for "personal reasons." Supposedly he hid the injury from the team.
 

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It could be a fun high scoring game but I am not confident the Falcons will bring their A game on Super Bowl Sunday. Ryan will likely be challenged in ways he has not been all season and will get looks from the Patriots defense he has not seen all season and that will confuse him.
There's no other team like the Pats for making game plans that are suited to the coming opponent. They're like silly putty, they conform to the shape of the game. And they do a better job of making adjustments during the game.

I was asked last night if I was a fan of the Pats and I said no. I'm an admirer but I am getting sick of how much they win. -_-
 

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