NFL 2016-17 Regular Season Discussion (1 Viewer)

[Scott Merryfield]

Wrong, Vance Joseph is the new Broncos HC! Hell, we're too far away to accurately read these tea leaves when it comes to coaching hires. Going by what certain media types tell us can be very misleading to what actually happens.

I saw some recent reports that had him as the favorite for the Denver job, so it lessened the surprise. I honestly had not even heard of him until the Denver rumors began (but Miami hasn't been on my radar for quite a few years). Hopefully the Dolphins defensive effort in their playoff loss to Pittsburgh was an aberration and not a true reflection of Joseph's coaching abilities, 'cause Miami's defense stunk in that game.

Shanahan will probably land somewhere else, so I wouldn't feel too sorry for him -- unless he ends up in San Fran.

Apparently Big Ben's ankle is going to be fine, which is good news for the Steelers. I think the Pittsburgh - KC game is going to be a close one.

Meanwhile, things do not sound as promising for Jordy Nelson. I think the Packers can give the Cowboys real fits this weekend, but playing without their best receiver will make it more difficult.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I think it is interesting to follow how teams operate and I think this often tips you off as to how successful the team will be. Some teams obviously make a lot of horrible moves and set themselves up to fail.

I follow this mostly through what reporters, team management, or players and personnel put out there. Most of the time I think most of what comes out is no accident. They intentionally float rumors and sometimes lies in hopes of getting where they want to go. I often try to read between the lines of what they are doing and saying.

Often you can get a good idea of how they are thinking and what they are trying to do.

As an example when the Giants were doing their head coach search last year there were immediate rumors of heavy interest in Josh McDaniels floated. This made sense as there is no secret that the Mara's and Belichick are good friends and really like one another. However, McDaniels for whatever reasons of his own did not want to take a head coaching position last year. Maybe he felt the Patriots were still close to making another Super Bowl so he wanted to stay for that.

At the same time the Giants division rival, the Eagles, were also conducting a head coach search and expressed a lot of interest in Ben McAdoo who they felt was an Andy Reid clone and they wanted to go back to a "Reid" style coach. The Giants then fairly quickly after the Eagles expressed their interest in interviewing McAdoo, promoted him to head coach. This obviously looked like a move to keep their key offensive coach out of the hands of a division rival. I mean come on...if the Eagles got McAdoo they would get the entire Giants playbook and all the tendencies and inside info on every Giants player. So, then you can play the game "Did the Eagles really want McAdoo or were they just forcing the Giants to play keep away and to promote McAdoo themselves?"

I would count this in the equation...the Eagles did hire a "Reid" style, "West Coast offense" kind of coach in Doug Pederson. I mean he is off the Andy Reid coaching tree and worked under Reid. So, obviously they were telling the truth about what they wanted in a coach. McAdoo you could say came from the same "West Coast" background with coaching stints in both San Francisco and Green Bay.

With the Broncos thing all the stuff was out there about how the Broncos had interviewed Vance Joseph back when they were searching for coaches and hired Kubiak. They put out there how close Joseph had been to getting the job then but Elway finally went with his buddy Kubiak...who weirdly they say Elway had to coax into taking the job because he was not sure he wanted to coach anymore. Kubiak has apparently had health issues for a while. This to me felt like Rooney Rule stuff...interview Joseph to meet the rule, talk about how great he is, then hire your buddy.

Plus Joseph is a defensive coach and Elway floated that whoever he hires as head coach was going to have to keep Wade Phillips because let's face it you can make an argument that Phillips has been the top DC in the league since he has been with Denver. Combine this with Shanahan floating that he wanted the Denver job, Elway and Shanahan knowing each other well, the Broncos needing more offensive coaching help than defensive and you end up thinking...sure Shanahan is the perfect fit.

They could have plugged Shanahan right in, he would have nothing to worry about on defense because Phillips had that under control, and gone right to work on improving the Broncos offense and working with those young QBs. I mean how good is that?

But no, Elway being Elway, hires Joseph leaving the Broncos search for the right OC to a defensive coach. Strange but maybe Elway thinks Joseph is the next Bill Belichick. Looking at Joseph's track record his time coaching in the NFL has been as a DB coach for the 49ers, Texans, and Bengals before getting promoted to DC of the Miami Dolphins. I'm not seeing a track record of great success there, nor is Joseph as hot a candidate as Shanahan...who has turned the Falcons offense into the most productive offense in the NFL in one season. Were I a Broncos fan, I would have liked to see what Shanahan would have done with a guy like Paxton Lynch. Hell, I think Paxton Lynch would have liked to find out what Shanahan would have done with him.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Or perhaps, Elway is really impressed by Joseph and was actually telling the truth when he said he almost hired him beforehand.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

It seems that he was telling the truth. I like Elway. The guys that work with Elway seem to really like Elway. Broncos fans seem to have a really good guy running football operations in Elway. Elway pulled off a fairly slick move in letting Osweiler go to the Texans for gigantic money that John obviously felt...and was 100% correct...he was not worth. He came out smelling like roses on that deal.

The one thing about Elway though that I wonder about is he seems to watch the budget really closely and so if he evaluates two guys as being fairly close he goes with the guy that is cheaper. Which is fine but I wonder if Elway went with Joseph because Shanahan let Denver know what he would be looking for in salary...and Shanahan will cost more to hire because he is a hot candidate and the Rams are likely to overpay anybody they hire...so Elway did what Elway does and went with the guy that would cost him less.

 

[Robert Crawford]

It seems that he was telling the truth. I like Elway. The guys that work with Elway seem to really like Elway. Broncos fans seem to have a really good guy running football operations in Elway. Elway pulled off a fairly slick move in letting Osweiler go to the Texans for gigantic money that John obviously felt...and was 100% correct...he was not worth. He came out smelling like roses on that deal.

The one thing about Elway though that I wonder about is he seems to watch the budget really closely and so if he evaluates two guys as being fairly close he goes with the guy that is cheaper. Which is fine but I wonder if Elway went with Joseph because Shanahan let Denver know what he would be looking for in salary...and Shanahan will cost more to hire because he is a hot candidate and the Rams are likely to overpay anybody they hire...so Elway did what Elway does and went with the guy that would cost him less.

I doubt salary had much to do with it because both of them would be rookie Head Coaches.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Or perhaps, Elway is really impressed by Joseph and was actually telling the truth when he said he almost hired him beforehand.

Considering that Elway has already won a Super Bowl at the helm in Denver, I would give him the benefit of the doubt in this decision, too. He seems to know what he's doing.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I think salary could have been the deciding consideration. I think Shanahan's agent had the chip that the Rams are willing to throw big money at Kyle and so they likely, and rightly, would have let John know this is what we can get from the Rams. Elway has this thing where nobody will dictate cost to him he will tell you what he will pay...and so feeling these guys were both good prospects he went with the guy that he could dictate salary to rather than the guy that could make a salary demand.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I think salary could have been the deciding consideration. I think Shanahan's agent had the chip that the Rams are willing to throw big money at Kyle and so they likely, and rightly, would have let John know this is what we can get from the Rams. Elway has this thing where nobody will dictate cost to him he will tell you what he will pay...and so feeling these guys were both good prospects he went with the guy that he could dictate salary to rather than the guy that could make a salary demand.

Believe what you please, I think otherwise. Anybody throwing big money at a first time HC is either nuts or don't know what they're doing!

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Well, I think that is sort of how Elway sees it. He probably thinks should I go for Shanahan and pay him a lot or take Joseph who is also a good prospect and I can get him for less.

Consider Joseph in this deal...he just landed the best job opening available for his first time head coaching spot. So, he now has a much higher opportunity to succeed than had he signed with a team like the 49ers that are in complete disarray. So, Joseph would probably take less money to coach the Broncos because in the long run if he wins there he becomes a more valuable commodity.

Elway is very competitive even as a front office guy. He likes "winning the deal" so he will make the deal at his price or he won't make the deal at all. He was interested in trading for Colin Kaepernick but only at his price and he refused to help pay for any of the 49ers mistakes. So he would not pick-up even some of the money owed to him on the 49ers deal to help make the deal and he had no interest in helping out Jed York and Trent Baalke.

Elway will make deals on his terms or to hurt another team...because he is competitive.

I mean I can see Elway thinking "Hey, I'll take this guy off your hands but I am not paying for any of the mistakes you idiots made." and in the end he didn't. Elway does not budge and that's to set a tone for the organization...the Broncos will not overpay and they won't be bullied into a deal by anyone.

So, I am not saying it is a bad thing Elway may have made his choice based on cost...he is trying to make the best deal for the team and Shanahan, while seeming to be a miracle worker this season, does not have a track record of this. So, again Elway seems to make the conservative choice always with an eye toward "If I don't like this guy, I will just get another guy."

It would have been a lot more fun to see Shanahan in charge of bringing in offensive coaches to see what he can do with the Denver offense...speaking from a fan perspective...which I don't think Elway considers or cares about.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I would say at this point Shanahan's best job opportunity will be with the Rams who must be excited that the Broncos hired somebody else because that was obviously their biggest competition for his services.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Well, that's it the Chargers are gone, they have a horrible new logo, and their fans hate them. They get to move to a new city, Los Angeles, that does not want them and they will get to play second fiddle to the Rams...who are not doing so well with fan support themselves right now.

Wow, what an epic blunder.

 

[Mark Booth]

I live in San Diego. This pretty much sums up how virtually everyone in San Diego feels:

The news was leaked about 10pm last night. Overnight, fans showed up at Chargers HQ at the stadium. A couple of people pelted the glass with eggs. But more people tossed their Chargers regalia on the ground in front of the door. A pile is starting to build.

Spanos has to pay up to $650 million to relocate the team. Had he been wiling to spend that much toward a new stadium in San Diego, a deal could have been worked out. The most he was wiling to cough up for a new stadium was about $300 million.

I will NOT follow the team in LA. The vast majority of San Diego fans feel the same way. I am trying to decide which team I should root for as "my" team.

Mark

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Believe what you please, I think otherwise. Anybody throwing big money at a first time HC is either nuts or don't know what they're doing!

NFL owners are making boatloads of money right now, so a couple more million dollars per year for a coach is not a big deal. Also, remember this is the biggest area where there is no salary cap, so owners can spend whatever they desire to get the coach they want. You cannot do that with players.

The Toronto Maple Leafs have been following this strategy the past few years in the NHL, throwing gobs of money at the coaching staff and front office. They are one of the most profitable teams in the league, so they can easily afford it.

I feel for San Diego fans, and know what it's like to lose a team you support. A little over a year ago, we lost our local Ontario Hockey League team we'd been season ticket holders with for years. It leaves a hole that is tough to fill, even if you find another team to replace it. In our case, USA Hockey bought the arena and moved their National Team Development Program there, which we now have tickets for -- but it's not the same.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Believe what you please, I think otherwise. Anybody throwing big money at a first time HC is either nuts or don't know what they're doing!

This is the team that just got done throwing money at Jeff Fisher.

 

[Robert Crawford]

This is the team that just got done throwing money at Jeff Fisher.

And just hired a 30 year old HC not named Kyle Shanahan. So much for the theory of holding up Elway due to multiple HC job offers. Again, football fans are just too far away from the interviewing process to accurately predict who's going to get what job. These media types we based our opinions on can easily get it wrong with their goal to be the first one to report anything that might be just plain BS.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I would say at this point Shanahan's best job opportunity will be with the Rams who must be excited that the Broncos hired somebody else because that was obviously their biggest competition for his services.

Wrong again! The 49ers and Chargers are still available so there's still hope.

By the way, the following quote is interesting:

The Rams were so enthused with McVay that they agreed to hire him without first sitting down with Falcons offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who was considered one of the favorites when the process began.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18460972/los-angeles-rams-hire-redskins-oc-sean-mcvay-coach

 

[Johnny Angell]

Well, that's it the Chargers are gone, they have a horrible new logo, and their fans hate them. They get to move to a new city, Los Angeles, that does not want them and they will get to play second fiddle to the Rams...who are not doing so well with fan support themselves right now.

Wow, what an epic blunder.

Yup, I no longer live in San Diego, but I hate the Spanos family. There never made themselves part of the community. So now they have to pay about a $650mil relocation fee, I think over 10 years. If they can pay that, why can't they put that money into a stadium in San Diego?

Spanos didn't want the rams or raiders moving into San Diego without them, it would be competition. Since the Spanos family has no idea or perhaps no interest in fielding a winning team, they would have a hard time competing.

I hope they fall flat on there faces in LA. They should at least leave the Chargers name and franchise history in San Diego, like it was done for Cleveland.

A#$ holes!

 

[Mark Booth]

Ha!

Mark

 

[Robert Crawford]

It looks like Lynn is getting the Chargers HC position so now it's only the 49ers without a HC.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

The Chargers news only gets worse. Turns out the Chargers are not just gone from San Diego they are really going to be gone completely in the next two years. Spanos plans to "re-brand" the team so he will be dropping the Chargers name and they will be called something else with a new logo and new uniforms. So, he is literally wiping the Chargers off the map. This explains why they have taken on the new Dodgers like logo with team colors going to blue and white for now...which oddly the Rams are doing as well as they plan to go to blue and white uniforms dropping the "gold" or yellow from their colors.

This may be sort of good because if San Diego ever gets a team again...will take probably a decade for that to happen if ever...they could possibly like Cleveland reclaim the name of their old NFL franchise. Really though it likely spells the end of the Chargers in the history of the NFL. Many people claim that San Diego could not support an NFL franchise while the Chargers were there and most seats were sold to fans of the visiting teams. Now with the damage done by this move angry fans may not welcome a team back to the San Diego area.

Also several of the players are not happy with this at all a key one being Philip Rivers who let the team know a couple years ago if they move to LA he would like to be traded (before the Titans drafted Mariota he wanted to go there)...well...now he has supposedly let the team know he wants nothing to do with going to LA, won't move his family there, and yes, would like to be traded. Apparently he is not pushing them or "demanding" a trade but he has stated his preference would be not to go to LA with the team. I think his issue is he wants to play somewhere in the South or a warm weather climate and so not really sure where he could go. Plus he does not want his children growing up in LA. I guess it would be interesting for the Dolphins to land somebody like Rivers but obviously making a deal for him will be tough and the Chargers seem unwilling to trade him or help him out in any way. Maybe Arizona or Houston but again these teams have money invested in QBs that makes it difficult to say they would trade for Rivers. Word is he won't retire so likely he ends up playing in LA at least another season but if he hates it...likely he will...there is the chance he would retire after next season. Sad end for his career.

So, Spanos was unhappy with the stadium in San Diego but just moved his team into a tiny (by NFL standards) 27,000 seat soccer stadium for the next two seasons before he becomes a tenant of the LA Rams in 2019. Brilliant! Obviously under those conditions he is not expecting many Chargers fans (what's left of them) to show up for games the next two seasons. The NFL does actually expect all of these Chargers games to sell out though because visiting fans will fill the seats due to an exciting opportunity to see their team play in such a tiny venue. So, the team gets to play all their "home games" in front of the visiting teams fans. Nice.