Newby with delima ...Help.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Phil Mays, May 24, 2002.

  1. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Currently I have a Onkyo TX-DX 797 powering:

    Klipsch:

    RC-7 - Center
    KLF-20's - Main
    RF-3's - Surround
    RC-3 - Rear
    KSW-15 - Sub

    The importance to me is 60% to 70% music and 30% to 40% Home Theatre.

    The sytem to me is great for Home Theatre however I feel I am missing some clean power at higher volumes with music.

    I am considering the following:

    1. Replace Onkyo with Denon 4802
    2. Replave Onkyo with Denon 5800
    3. Add a 5 or 7 channel Aragon amp to Onkyo.

    What would you do?
     
  2. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

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    While those are wonderful receiver choices, I would get the amp. With your music ratio that high, this can make a significant difference to your ears.
     
  3. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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    Phil,

    A Sherwood am9080(450.00) would knock the socks off of the onkyos internal amps. I had the denon 4802(incredible processor) but the sherwood amp and many other inexpensive amps beat the denons internal amps easily...hope this helps

    Plus you have very effecient speakers so you wouldnt need much power..100 watt external amp would work great. Also keep in mind the nature of your Klipsch speakers(lets just say revealing)..maybe a amp thats known to be on the warm side would be your best choice.
     
  4. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Thanks Paul [​IMG].
    I have been leaning that way for a while. After reading these forums it seems many people agree.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    Phil, I have almost the same setup as you. I went ahead and added the Sherwood AM9080 amp to my Klipsch Reference Series 3 speakers. The difference from the Onkyo 898 to the Sherwood is incredible. The Sherwood amp is warm and really opens up the sound field on the Klipsch speakers. I you are able to get one for a good price I would say it's a no brainer. Good luck with what you decide.[​IMG]
     
  6. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Bob & John....Thanks for the input[​IMG] .
    Will I be able to hear a difference at 100WPC versus the current 100WPC. It has been my thought that 100 watts is 100 watts. I have to admit I know very little about this .
    John, you commented that it will "warm" up the system. Does this mean a fully sound stage, deeper bass, or what?
    Also is the Sherwood AM 9080 only $450 new or is that a used price. It does sound like a "no brainer" Bob. I WOULD LOVE TO SAVE MONEY!!! I think sometime we have a tendency to over buy for the situation.
    Thanks
    Phil
     
  7. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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    Phil,

    100 watts from an external amp will trounce a 100 watts from a reciever..heck an 80 watt amp(hk-pa5800) would trounce many 125 watt reciever amps..

    Warm to me is a less fatiqing, fuller, less digital edgyness. You know sometimes when you here a system that you think it sounds good but after listening to it for awhile it starts to get on your nerves or literally starts to hurt your ears. A warmer system begges to be turned up while a brighter system always makes me say turn it down...I know this is a terrible explanation, maybe somebody can further contribute.
     
  8. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    John,

    Thanks for the clarification. I know what you mean now. That is one reason I enjoy horn loaded speakers as they do not fatigue me in the highs. However if I ever have the spare money I would be very tempted to get the B & W Nautilus 803's.
     
  9. StevenK

    StevenK Second Unit

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    I hate warm systems as much as I hate bright systems. I prefer neutral. Both warm and bright means added discoloration to the sound. Clear and unaltered is the way to go.

    Back on topic...Another vote of external amp. Not necessarily for that much of a gain in performance, but much easier upgradability than another receiver. A few years down the line, when DTS-ES-ES-ES 14.2 comes out, just replace the pre/pro portion, and not the entire setup.
     
  10. Joseph_W

    Joseph_W Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the same question with different equipment:

    Receiver: Yamaha 793 (85W, DD 5.1, but no DTS)

    Speakers:
    B&W CDM 7NT main
    B&W CDM CNT center
    B&W CDM SNT surround speakers

    50/50 stereo and HT but I'm really looking for better stereo sound.

    Will an external amp overide getting DTS?

    (I really only have room for one rear speaker and it must be a CDM SNT which isn't cheap. I couldn't afford it immediately even if I did get into 6.1.)

    Any help is appreciated.

    Joe
     
  11. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    Greg
    The Klipsch speakers are extremely efficient. IMO you'll get more for your $$$ with a processing (receiver or pre/pro) upgrade. You should bring home a demo model and test it out on your system.
    Joe,
    I think a receiver upgrade would be the way to go... you'll get better amplification and processing at the same time.
    You should both check out this link which has the true amplifier ratings of various receivers (all channels driven).
     
  12. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    StevenK,
    Thanks for your input and you are right. When DD22.3 hits the market I'm sure upper mid-range pre/pro's will run about $6,000. Get the amp. [​IMG]
    Earlier comments were made about the Sherwood Newcastle AV9080 that can be had at around $450. Any other thoughts on a good 5 channel amp. I just lost a bid on eBay in the last 30 seconds for one.
    Thanks
    Phil
     
  13. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Greg,

    The sound shop where I purchase product from has offered that option to me with both the Denon 4802 and 5800.

    I'm somewhat torn as I REALLY:b want the Aragon 2007 Amp with the Aragon Sound Stage One processor. That combo is $7,000 which is over my budget now. This is why I was considering the Amp first then following up with the rest later.

    Any thoughts?

    Phil
     
  14. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

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    Another vote for an external amp. I'm not very familiar with the Sherwood but I've heard nothing but good about it. The Aragon amps are fabulous but I would be very careful in mating it. You need to be careful about matching the Aragon with components that have similar impedance. I have a friend that tried using a 4004 Mk II with Adcom's top-of-the-line preamp at the time (I can't remember the model) and the Adcom got fried. Adcom said that it was because the amplifier had a much higher impedance and that their preamp just couldn't keep up with it.

    Joe,

    Using an external amp will not override getting DTS. However, if DTS is what you're looking for, I suggest updating your receiver and getting one with a better amplifier section while your at it or go the separates route. With the speakers you have I'd suggest a flagship receiver or separates.
     
  15. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Alex,

    Thanks for the info. I never thought of that. It would be my luck to fry the receiver after spending so much on the amp, that would have to sit there by its lonely self as I could not afford to replace the receiver.

    Phil
     
  16. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    With your passion for music, I would strongly suggest the Denon 5800.

    Why?

    All this talk of external amplifiers for your speakers is not necessary with the 5800. It will do well over 200 watts with 2 channels running. The sonics of the 5800 are incredible, a pure, analog path is available. The DACs are top of the line. Alpha 24 is a good upsampling product, the pre-amp stage is near noise-less....and all of the HT formats are available, with the exception of DPLII. The Denon 5803 is also available at this time with even better DAC structure than that of the 5800. Do take the time to audition the 5800 before making a final decision.

    BTW, I am an avid supporter of outboard amplification...but with your speakers, that will only increase headroom and not the musical nature you are trying to achieve in your system.


    Jeremy
     
  17. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Jeremy,

    Thanks. I do believe I will audition both an external amp and the 5800.

    Why did you not like the thought of the 4802?

    Phil
     
  18. Joseph_W

    Joseph_W Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Alex and Greg,
    I keep coming up with what you guys are saying, I really need to upgrade both processor and amplification, either a good receiver or a pair of separates.I guess I'll have to scrape up some money somehow.

    Greg, I had no luck with your link. Has it expired? I tried truncating the extension with the same results.

    Joe
     
  19. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Joseph,

    I had a hard time geting to it myself. However I finially got it. I filed it inFavorites and I cannot go to it now either. I did print it and would be hapy to fax it to you on Tuesday or so if the link does not re-emerge.

    Phil
     
  20. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    I would add the 989 to your list. But for that amount of money I would go separates(get a good pre-pro). Others here are more informed on pre-pro's than me. Good luck.
     

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