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Newbie's SVS question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by AhsanR, Jan 18, 2003.

  1. AhsanR

    AhsanR Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey there,
    I am in the market for HT, and suffice to say, I have been educating myself constantly about speakers. It took me six months, but I finally realized Bose Sucks, Best buy rips you off, and there is a world beyond Circuit City.
    Now with that said, I have narrowed my subwoofer hunt down to the SVS.
    Now...... I was wondering, how much of a difference does having two SVS woofers make?
    I am planning on purchasing ONE Cs-Ultra, since thats what my budget permits, can anyone comment on if that will be enough bass for a bass junkie like myself?
    Oh and I love hearing those stories people have about how their first impressions on their woofer was, maybe someone should write in some [​IMG]
     
  2. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Adding a second sub in the same corner typically yields a 6 dB increase in volume.

    Adding a second sub in an opposing corner along the same wall typically yields a 3 dB increase in volume.

    The 6 dB increase from co-located subs will most definitely be very significant and noticeable.

    You really haven't provided enough information for anyone to give advice on whether or not you really need dual subs.

    How big is your HT room in cubic feet? How far from the sub(s) will you be sitting? Are there large permanent openings to other rooms? Do you like bass demanding DVDs? Do you like to play DVDs really loud or are you a more moderate type?
     
  3. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    Email SVS with your room dimensions (diagram is helpful) as well as listening preferences. They will steer you right.

    You can always start with one Ultra and add another one later if you need more SPL. Maximum SPL (and lower distortion) will be the main difference between one sub and two.
     
  4. AhsanR

    AhsanR Stunt Coordinator

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    Well my room is 25 by 25 feet approximately.
    It is a basement, and there is one door, but it is closed.
    I want bass that when I listen to music or watch a movie, to hit me smack hard in the face and wow me. And shock my friends [​IMG] .
    I like to play DVD's loud, and yes I do like Bass demanding DVD's.
     
  5. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Assuming an 8 foot ceiling, that's a HUGE room - 5,000 ft3.

    I would not recommend a single sub in this room. For maximum output at all but the very deepest frequencies, a pair of co-located 25-31PC+ is a better choice in this room than a single Ultra.

    Above 25 Hz, a pair of corner loaded 25-31PC+ should outgun a single Ultra by about 4-5 dB. You also get the benefit on the on-board amp and subsonic filter. The SS filter is essential for eeking that last few dB from a sub without bottoming the woofer.

    Even then, you may not achieve the gut wrenching bass you are looking for. Even SVS products obey the laws of physics - this is a HUGE room to fill with high levels of bass.
     
  6. AhsanR

    AhsanR Stunt Coordinator

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    OH MAN, I'm sorry, I just remeasured, and I kinda measured wrong........

    Its 20 by 20 ft..... with a 9 foot ceiling.

    Would that be ok?
     
  7. Tim Hoover

    Tim Hoover Screenwriter

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    Well, Ahsan, since you're already planning on purchasing one Ultra, just try it out and see if it has enough bass for you. If not, THEN you could purchase a second one...
     
  8. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Ahsan in your situation I would go with duel. One might very well be enough but duel would surly be optimal for your desires and would afford you the headroom at your listening levels. This would be a definite benefit. You might consider the duel PC+ if not the Ultras. Good Luck.
     
  9. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    I've got one Ultra in a 7500 cubic foot basement (sheet rock walls, carpeted floor) and I think its plenty loud and low. I have mine calibrated pretty close to reference and maybe 1-2 db hot (rat shack corrected.

    I would reccomend getting the radio shack meter and measure your typical listening levels where you sit with your current set-up. The decibel level will help determine if one or two subs is what you need.

    Other useful info. to know. Do you like a calibrated even (as you can get) frequency response with your bass? Or do you like to listen with the bass boost (loudness) button engaged. If you like the latter then you may be in the market for two subs since you will be askinig them to perform beyond the recorded material's intent.

    My Ultra is pretty well calibrated and it sounds great for any music and any movie. I have been pretty lucky in that I have no glaring valleys in frequency response. I *may* could have purchased the PC+ or CS+ and be equally satisfied as I am with the Ultra. I just figured that if I was going to get something 40" tall I wanted the best driver in it. I also prefer to have my amps in the rack versus in the back of my sub which may not be near an electrical outlet. The Ultras large excursion and my not extremely loud listening sessions meant the subsonic filter was not too important to me. The Phase switch is nice but with my 4ES receiver I can reverse the polarity and then fine tune it by adjusting the sub speaker distance seting. Even though I don't think I need one, for hobby reasons, I may purchase an equalizer to see just how flat I can make the Ultra play in my basement. But this is down the road, if ever.
     
  10. AhsanR

    AhsanR Stunt Coordinator

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    Zach_R how much bass would you say its giving ya?

    Like if you watch a movie, would it shake you violently, or catch you off gaurd when there is a horror sequence coming in?

    What I really want is just BASS to shake me HARRRRRRRRD!!!!
     
  11. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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  12. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    AhsanR:

    The smaller the room, the easier it is to achieve really gut wrenching bass. My HT room is 1700 ft3 with very fortuitous acoustics. I regularly hit 110-112 dB 4 meters from the sub during loud playback with the right source material. At one meter, I'm getting 118-119 dB on the same passages. I use a professional grade B&K Model 2205 SPL meter on C-Weighted Fast. It requires no correction factor and is extraordinarily accurate.

    Anyway, you will not get these kinds of levels in a 3600 ft3 room with a single sub. The TV-12 is the best SVS driver, no doubt. In the same size enclosure (20-39) it outdoes the dB-12 driver by a solid 2 dB in max output.

    But the 25-31PC+ will play nearly as loud as an Ultra above 25 Hz because the enclosure is smaller. Two of them in the same corner will best a single Ultra by around 5 dB above 25 Hz, but they will not play quite as deep, obviously.

    I would think by your statements, you want bass in the 115+ dB range at the couch. If that is the case, you might want to step up to the B4 Plus or go DIY. 3600 ft3 is a lot of room to fill with the SPL you are looking for.
     
  13. AhsanR

    AhsanR Stunt Coordinator

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    WHOOAAAAAAAAA NOW....

    I am on a tight budget here, lets try not to go over $1800!!

    B4..... now well thats way too overkill.

    As for DYI, I wouldn't mind it, but I don't know jack diddly squat.

    Do you really think the B4 is necessary?
     
  14. Christopher M

    Christopher M Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a HUGE room to try and fill. 25'x27' open door to the kitchen, and open area to two half flights of stairs. Add in 3 couches, and the 10' ceilings and its a massive room to fill.
    I called SVS and spoke with them when I was looking at the PC+ line-up. They to recommended the 25-31PC+. They said that the increase in db with the 25-31 vs. the 20-39 would fill the room much better. As I plan on going to dual eventually, I went ahead and got the 20-39PC+ I'm very happy with it. However, I can tell that its not as powerful as it could be. It still sounds great, and shakes things all over though. So I'm happy.

    Murdock
     
  15. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    At this point, I second John's advice, above. Email Tom V a room diagram with all openings and where you plan to place the subs and where you plan to sit for playback. Make it clear to him your expectations on bass power and output. He will tell you exactly what you need to make it happen.
     
  16. Sean L

    Sean L Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a 25-31PC+ in a 6000sq foot room -- 20x15 w/ 20 ft vaulted ceiling, and I'm very happy with the performance. On the really low LFE stuff, I can feel the bass in my seat, my pants leg, etc...this is with the 25-31 tuned to 20Hz.

    Sure two 25-31s side by side would be awesome, but I'm happy with what I have now and have no plans to upgrade in the foreseeable future.

    Sean in Nor Cal
     
  17. AhsanR

    AhsanR Stunt Coordinator

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    Sean,

    I want the type of bass some of these guys are talking about how it hits them, and how you can hear it 8 houses down......

    Maybe I'm expecting too much, but hey, if anyone can do it;

    ITS GOTTA BE SVS!
     
  18. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

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    I've got a 25-31PCi (tuned 22) in a 26 x 13 ft room with 10ft ceilings, with two "corridor" openings (one to the bedrooms, one is a mini hall to the main door of the apartment). large "picture window" to the right of the HT setup, which no doubt loses SPLs.

    all I can say is the "little SVS" is plenty of sub for me. but I don't typically run at high volumes, for that matter I rarely even get near reference. and maybe the marble floor "helps" with SPLs?
     
  19. AhsanR

    AhsanR Stunt Coordinator

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    I know this may sound stupid, but what exactly is a proper description of a "basS" reference level.
     
  20. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Ahsan

    Do you currently have a sub?

    I think you very well may be expecting to much.

    This not to say that what you want as far a BASS goes, (in your room) isn't possible, but I have a feeling from the read of your posts, that your not acustom to quality, clean, accurate bass.

    I agree big time that you speak with Tom via email or phone about your expectations and be very clear about them. They certainly can give you what you want, but knowing exactly what you want and what their dealing with (roo size, layout, concrete floor, ect is very important.

    Some, when getting their SVS sub regardless of the model, are disapointed (at first) because their used to boomy or bloated bass of many comerical offerings, and the SVS-subs when calibrated properly, play bass they way it is meant to be heard. Material you have listened to before that seemed to have a lot of bass might seem very different, nearly bassless.
    With the SVS, if it's their it plays it, if not it dose not.
    It dose not call attention to itself, it blends into the systems sound and goes to work "only" when the DVD or CD "content calls" for it to do so.

    If your looking for more slam or punch, the small higher tuned 2531 might be a better route. More than likely 2 of them.
    The deeper tuned 2039 and 1646 give up a few db's in output (in the punch you in the chest freqs-kick drum, ect) to go after extension, the more feeling the bass than hearing it.

    I mean no disrespect, (and may be wrong in the fact that I think you may be acustom to boom box bass),,, but just wanted to give my take on what I've read so far from you, and be sure as others mentioned and I, that you DEFINITLY make clear to Tom and Ron what your after.

    Referance is a DB calibration term for setting your HT system up.
    If all speakers are set to small, the sub needs to be able to hit (115+ db) at the listening postion. And preferably to 20hz or lower. Very tuff to do in a room of your size with just one sub, even if it's an SVS.....~{B4 excluded}~...

    Cheers
    Geoff
     

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