Newbie HD TV questions...

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Adam.Heckman, Jan 12, 2004.

  1. Adam.Heckman

    Adam.Heckman Second Unit

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    I appologize if this has been covered, I have looked at the primer, but to no avail. This may be due to my ineffective searching though.

    I'm looking into getting HD. My question is this: are all HD tv sets equal in their lines of resolution? HD broadcasting is done in 1080i, correct? Do all HD sets come able to produce 1080i, or are some maxed out at 720p? And what is the native resolution of DVDs? Is it 480p? What about upscaling them?

    Also I'll be looking into getting a 30" HD monitor, is there anything that I should be looking for? Is upconverting important?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Dave Milne

    Dave Milne Supporting Actor

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    First of all, "lines of resolution" is not the same thing as format. Because a TV is capable of displaying 720p doesn't necessarily mean you will get 720 lines of resolution. This depends on the quality of all of the elements in the signal chain from camera to display. But back to your question: A true line doubler will convert this to 960p although it takes a pretty high-end set to display this natively. I think most common sets convert this to 1080i or 720p.
     
  3. Jake K

    Jake K Stunt Coordinator

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    DVD is 480i, not 480p.
     
  4. Adam.Heckman

    Adam.Heckman Second Unit

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    Thanks for the replies/clarifications, it's a huge help.

    DVD is 480i not p. Okay, but won't a progressive scan player put it out at 480p?

    And anther question is, if ALL HDTVs will play 1080i, why will only higher end sets play 720p? Just curious.

    Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for in a 'smaller' HDTV?

    Thanks again!! You people are awesome.
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    720p requires more scan lines....

    i means it only has half the information on each frame.
    p means all lines are present in each frame.
     
  6. DuWayne

    DuWayne Stunt Coordinator

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    and....all HDTV isn't 1080i
     
  7. Calvin S

    Calvin S Agent

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    That's just what most TV makers have chosen to support, 1080i. True HiDef content (in America) must be either 1080i or 720p. I don't know of any tube TVs that support both natively, although there might be a few. More common is to natively support 480i and 1080i. Some plasmas natively support only 720p, probably because the electronics to natively support progressive was cheaper than a display that contained the extra 360 lines of pixels. It is not uncommon to find HDTV projectors that support both 720p and 1080i natively.
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

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    Hmm, interesting.. My Philips of all things, does seem to support 480p on the HDTV input and display it natively.


    Thanks for the post Calvin...
     
  9. DuWayne

    DuWayne Stunt Coordinator

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    Even the DVD forum states that most DVDs come native at 480i. Even my DVE 2003 HD DVD states this, but they filmed their content at 1080p and reduced it down to 480p. But this is an exception, not a rule.
     
  10. Calvin S

    Calvin S Agent

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    You are correct -- my bad. It's really the DVD Player that turns it into 480p, but the DVD material is really 480i.
     
  11. Stephen Tu

    Stephen Tu Screenwriter

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    This is just fundamentally incorrect. There are two HD formats that are commonly broadcast, 1920x1080i, interlaced scanning, and 1280x720p, progressive scan.

    Now what a particular HD set can actually display natively depends what type of set it is. CRT-based sets could well display both formats natively, but in practice they don't because it's cheaper not to. Currently made direct-view & rear-projection CRTs as a rule display 1080i natively, but not 720p with the possible exception of a few hard-to-find direct view models. Most also support an additional 480p or 540p scanning rate which is used for SD content. (Not 480i as CalvinS mentioned). Front projection CRTs are more likely to be able to do both natively.

    Fixed-pixel sets, including LCD & plasma direct-views, and LCD, LCOS, or DLP front & rear projectors by nature convert all incoming signals to their native pixel array. They can't handle 1080i natively. It is converted to their native pixel arrray, commonly 1280x720, 1280x768, or 1366x768. 1920x1080 fixed pixel sets are starting to appear, but they are very expensive.

    Now what a set displays natively is a different question from what the set will accept on its component input and convert to what it displays natively. Fixed pixel sets almost always accept all formats. CRTs sometimes accept all formats, but there are a significant number which don't accept 720p input.
     
  12. Stephen_Ri

    Stephen_Ri Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Stephen, this thread was 10 posts long and already a misinformation factory.
     
  13. Adam.Heckman

    Adam.Heckman Second Unit

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    Wow.
    Okay, I didn't mean to start any trouble here.
    Is there any literature that I can get my hands on about this?
    Or is there going to be a consensus on this one?

    I'm actually a shade more lost than I was when I started. However, I do greatly appreciate everyones eagerness to weigh in.

    If this is indeed a 'misinformation factory' would you please enlighten all of us? I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
     
  14. John S

    John S Producer

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    In short the supported formats any given set can display, has little to do with what it really displays.

    Really if 720p and/or DVI inputs are important, than you should get a set that has those features.

    I do think it is much more important to get a set that has a picture quality you like, than to buy on the fact of weather it displays 960 Lines max, or 1080i line max, as long as it can display the signals you need it to display.

    It is tough, because most of the stores you can demo any given set in, are usually horrible about setting any given set up correctly for a demo.

    Upscalling in particular is not going to give you much, except that 480i via component video is progressively scanned by most sets to 480p with great results. As many have posted you cannot put back in resolution that was not there to begin with.

    I would think these will be your most important choices:
    Picture Quality
    DVI Inputs or not
    720p support (Either native or converted for display)
    Multipile True HD Component Video inputs

    Best of luck to you......
     
  15. Adam.Heckman

    Adam.Heckman Second Unit

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    John,
    Thank you for your response, it's much appreciated. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask the forum/you some follow ups to it, though.

    DVI inputs: What piece of equipment sends DVI signal? Is that from a PC?

    If HD broadcasts are mostly in 1080, and dvds are in 480, then when/why would anyone need 720?

    True HD component inputs: is this the Y/Pb/Pr outs that I'm using from my DVD player now, or is "true HD" something different?
     
  16. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    True HD component inputs will accept an HD signal (1080i and/or 720p). Some sets limit one or more of their component inputs to 480i/p bandwith only. This limits the number of HD sources allowable, causing possible future problems with HD-DVD and such.
     
  17. John S

    John S Producer

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    Xbox is also putting out 720p, from what I hear anyways, I am not a gamer.


    And, you sort of right, I watch ABC all the time but my OTA Tuner is upconverting it to 1080i for me to do that.


    In the end, it is a series of trade offs...

    I ended up going with the biggest best picture quality I could get for my $1248, I only have one true HDTV Component video input, I have zero 720p support, I do not have DVI....


    I hope this all helped some....
     
  18. John S

    John S Producer

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    PS: Many many sets, only support 480p and 1080i on the HD Component video inputs.
     
  19. Adam.Heckman

    Adam.Heckman Second Unit

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    Awesome.
    Thanks everyone that took time out to help me with this one.
    You answered all of my questions that I had to ask before I could start to seriously look for my first HD selection. This is my first venture away from the audio portion of HT, and you've all help. Thanks again.
     
  20. John S

    John S Producer

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    Just come back, and let us all know what you buy and your experiences with it please....


    Internet product experience sharing is the wave of the future. As Brick and Motor stores deliver less and less, and internet dealers offer more and more, this will eventually become the best way possible to eval equipment.

    Even someday, HT groups not unlike this one, will have a list, so if you really want to demo something, you will only have to find a memeber that owns the equipment within your reasonable travel area.
     

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