New Yamaha extremely harsh in 2CH--is it broken? (1 Viewer)

[DerekF]

Thanks for all you input everyone!

I have since spent a few hours listening to music and tweaking the system, and I believe I have the high-end somewhat under control. Now a few songs sound outstanding, most sound really good, and a few sound awful (a trait Mathew discussed, possibly attributed to recording).

Moral of the story--try all combinations of speaker size (small, large) and LFE output (Sub, Mains, both), and cross reference that with different bass and treble settings, and direct/processor out and listen to different recordings of the same song!

It does still sound treble-heavy, but that is a trait I will try and fix when I buy new mains...

--I'll try and answer a few of your questions below:

Speakers & wire:

The speakers are next on the upgrade list (Old Technics floor standers and a David DBox sub), and I did indeed try them in all sorts of placements (out from the wall, toed in, angled, etc.) The wire is 14G low-end HT stuff from Home Depot.

The CD player only has analog outs (no digital). It is connected with AR cables.

Some other advice I heeded: Change the Ohm switch on the back of the unit.

Also, I noticed some of the discussion swayed towards the 1200--the unit I am having problems with is the 2200--if it makes any difference....

Anyway, thanks again for all your input!

Derek

 

[Saurav]

I think one important factor that probably hasn't been really mentioned yet, is the room. Do you have any smooth reflective surfaces in your room? Hardwood floor? Big RPTV between the speakers? How much furniture do you have along the side walls? Try taming the first reflections points in your room, that should go a long way towards smoothening out the sound. If your room isn't carpeted, try throwing a rug between you and the speakers, try putting up wall hangings at the reflection points on the side walls, move the speakers out in front of the TV if they aren't already positioned that way, and so on.

 

[Johnny Lerner]

I would have thought it would be self-evident that a manufacturer that can't produce speakers that have ANY KIND of audio reputation would be similarly understoofd to have minimal interest in producing good sound in their 'electronics.'

If a bloody simple consumer spending 1-2-3 thousand dollars is vitally interested in the total product of 'sound' then why in hell shouldn't a corporation with investments of millions and billions be interested in the TOTAL product?

The reason is that Tokyo has gotten the usual consumer in US COMPLETELY bamboozled by the 'light and button' show - and effectively gotten any sensibly priced product off the shelf.

The ONLY speakers used by the Japanese CITIZEN that is interested in 'sound' is an IMPORTED speaker. Basically the Japanese corporations selling consumer electronics could be LESS interested in performance - their game is LBF (lights, buttons, format).

The fact they have NO speakers means they never bother to LISTEN themselves. Rather clear, isn't it? They never made any LP cartridges either - nor headphones. Starting to get the picture? Geez - has the US gone completely brain-dead -- DUH DUH??? Has all thinking gone to hell after Columbo went off the air?

 

[Jagan Seshadri]

Johnny Lerner,

I take it you are a two-channel afficionado whose favorites are Mark Levinson amplifiers and the like? And what speakers do you listen to? And what recordings? I'd like to know what forms your sound preferences.

I would have thought it would be self-evident that a manufacturer that can't produce speakers that have ANY KIND of audio reputation would be similarly understoofd to have minimal interest in producing good sound in their 'electronics.'

If Mark Levinson produced speakers, would they sound good, or is it fair to say that certain companies have certain specialties? Sony television sets, for example, are phenomenal despite Sony's lack of prominence in the speaker department. Self evident the other way, it seems to me.

-JNS

 

[Scott Basham]

There's no doubt, there are other receivers out there better than the Yamaha ones, but to suggest that Yamaha has no interest in the music fidelity is really pushing it. Consider the following:

1) Ever noticed the Yahama logo on all of there products, from electronics to motorcycles? Got any idea what it is? Yep, it's a tuning fork.

2) For those of you who watch DTS movies, have you ever noticed the DTS piano introduction? If not, check out the brand when you see it again. Surely DTS wouldn't use a crappy sounding brand of piano to represent or showcase what they consider the premier sounding movie format. Yamaha is noted for making some of the best pianos and keyboards on the market.

I'm going to agree though, a lot of the Japanese brands are based around a light and L.E.D. show.

 

[Saurav]

They never made any LP cartridges either

You just demonstrated that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about (Edit: unless you were specifically referring to Yamaha, in which case you're probably right). There are excellent Japanese cartridges available, some of which are pretty much universally considered the best (or close to the best) in their price category. Really expensive cartridges are outside my budget so I'm not familiar with them, but in the $200 - $500 price range, some of the best cartridge choices are Japanese. Dynavector comes to mind first, because I own a DV10x4. The Denon DL-103D and the Sumiko Blue Point/Blue Point Special are also Japanese cartridges that are pretty much classics which are well respected in the audio community.

 

[Sean Conklin]

Has all thinking gone to hell after Columbo went off the air?

Come to think of it, I think you hit the nail right on head, I knew Columbo had something to do with it.

No Columbo = No Thinking

 

[Bill Bradstreet]

I trust my Yamaha DSP-A3090 because they make a great outboard motor. ;-)

 

[Bob_M]

I remember when I got caught up in the whole Yamaha is bright thing. I dragged my speakers and receiver to different show rooms to see if I could find a receive that would not show all the sibilance. My final conclusion was, bad recordings. I could never find a receiver that would that would really treat them much different then my Yamaha. I think I tired Marantz, Denon, Outlaw, Sony and NAD. In the end I kept my Yam. The recording in question was Madonna’s America Pie.

Bob

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Johnny Johnny Johnny,

Where does this ill seeded and missinformed hatred of Japaneese

Electronics stem from?

The last time I looked, Krell does not make a speaker nor

does Lexicon. And what if Martin Logan made turn tables?

(I don't think "Electrostatic" would go good in marketing

such a device.)

If you are judging Japaneese Electronics based on the fact

that *SOME* of them offer what some of us would consider to

be Hokey DSP Fields (Yes Yamaha does offer a ton of these

fields) but not ALL Japaneese companies offer Receivers or

Seperates with all the hokus pokus. Onkyo for example designs

thier components around minimalistic sound processing options.

If you look at the Flagship DS989 it does not have led's

everywhere nor does it have a ton of DSP fields, and the DSP

fields that it does have are useful in nature.

And there are other "High End" companies not based in Asia

at all, that offer more than one sound processing option. I

guess they are just aiming at the J6P with a sound and light

show as well? (Even though they cost multiples of thousands

of dollars and the J6P has never heard of such companies.)

You are entitled to your opinion, even though it's very lop

sided and far fetched.

 

[David Meek]

Brett,
Just an FYI:
As of recently, Krell does make a speaker. The LAT (Lossless Acoustic Transducer). It has received some very good reviews. Here's a link to Krell's web pages about it.
PS. Y'all don't take this as a positive response to John's threads - it's not. He seems to have an irrational view of things Japanese-made. FWIW, I LIKE my Yamaha RX-V1 a lot!

 

[DougO]

Having had a Denon 3802 in home for the past 30 days, and now with a 2200 in for audition, I can say that the Denon "warms up" the lesser recordings, while the Yamaha passes the sound thru (harshness and all). On a multitude of material ranging from classic oldies to new age to rap to metal to classical, I can say that the Yamaha will nicely reveal a very satisfying and appealing sound of well recorded tunes. Cymbals sizzle nicely. Sax is accurate and warm. Horace Silver on Blue Note is quite nice. Time to go crank some "Beautiful People" -- stay tuned.

 

[Richard Burzynski]

Just a few comments regarding Yamaha Electronics & Speakers.

Yamaha has a reputation for building quality electronics (A/V receivers and such). I am not commenting on subjective sound characteristics (bright vs. warm), just overall build quality. I have a personal theory on why. Yamaha has a significant presence in the Pro Audio world. This experience (and probably QC) and technology filters over to the Consumer side. As an example, the RX-V1 has a 44bit LSI (first consumer version ever), originally developed for the Pro Audio division.

As for Yamaha and speakers. True, Yamaha's only consumer speakers consist of entry-level, "boxed system", affordable stuff. But if you know anything about the Pro Audio market, you would kow that the (recently discontinued)Yamaha NS10 series is a *worldwide* standard studio monitor speaker.

From a Press Release / Article:

"Introduced in 1987, the NS10MS and NS10MC were hailed for their consistent sound quality and "reality-based monitoring," evolving into a reference standard for professional engineers, producers, recording studios and post production facilities worldwide."

Basically, you can't enter a professional sound studio (anywhere) that doesn't have a pair of these available for listening.

Oh, and as for "bright-sounding" goes, there is a school of thought that says if your system sounds bright your sub may not be up to par.

Rich B.

 

[Allan Jayne]

Here is my guess.
(1) Somewhere, two signal sources are being combined to feed into one input, for example (hypothetical) left rear and left front are combined to become just left. This could either be just inside the input jacks at the rear, or between two stages of the amp internally. Due to poor circuit design, the two signal sources interfere with each other further back in their amplifier stages just before they are combined.
On many receivers the input jacks go first to the source selector switch and then 2CH 4CH selector switch, and it is possible that the problem is in the DVD player, it doesn't like its left and right or front and rear tied together.
(2) For surround sound, the decoding of the four or five channels is incorrect, alignment of some kind (trimpots in the back) may be needed.
I had an older stereo receiver that had problem #1 only with the phono preamp when put into mono mode (left and right paralleled or tied together). Worked fine in stereo, the FM tuner worked fine both mono and stereo. ALso it worked OK when a mono record was being played. I think what is happening is that there are supposed to be some feedback loops but if a little left channel material leaks into the right channel's feedback loop or vice versa and the material is not identical (mono), the problem happens.
Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm

 

[Marc H]

Rich is right, you would be hard pressed to find a quality recording studio that doesn't have a pair of the Yamaha NS10M sitting on top of the console.

I've done a lot of A/B comparisons in my time on receivers and I would say Yamaha is one of the few that gets the treble right (assuming the source is right). Personal taste is a factor for sure but I find many 'quality' brands tend to sound almost like they roll-off the highs. Some of the lower end ones just sound downright grainy and harsh from inadequate current or cheap components. Taste aside, I think the Yammies are faithful to the source.