New Toshiba picture just isn't right.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Wesley S, Mar 1, 2003.

  1. Wesley S

    Wesley S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You guys helped our family choose the Toshiba 36" 36AF42 for our set. We are very happy with it and are currently waiting on our calibration disc to arrive for proper adjustment.

    Our only and biggest grip right now is the picture is too blurry (with contrast around 35) or picture perfect but too dark (contrast at 15). Now I know you guys have mentioned that we have to get used to watching the new tv and there has been debate as to how to actually setup the tv. Some are saying that we should just set it to what we think looks good as opposed to the "correct" calibration. Only problem is we can't get it to where we like it. It's either too blurry (letters especially, edges) or it's too dark when contrast is set low. I say dark and I mean dark. When contrast was set to 15 with an excellent picture it's just too dark to watch even when every light is off.

    Any idea as to why it's so blurry when contrast is set even at 35-40 level?

    Someone else mentioned that I need to turn SVM off in the service menu but I have no idea what any of those menu options mean. Clarke has a post here listing what the menu options are but I still have no idea what each mean. Not to mention I didn't see SVM anywhere in our service menu.

    Thanks for any help and a push hopefully in the right direction.
     
  2. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Wes,

    Toshiba hard wires the VSM function but it is disabled with Movie Mode.

    First things first:
    What Picture Preference Mode are you using? Or are you jumping around depending on source or lighting, etc.?

    Pick a Picture Mode that comes close to what you need and we'll take it from there. You can always adjust the internal contrast (SCNT) and brightness (BRTC) levels once you're in the service menu.
     
  3. Wesley S

    Wesley S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks Clarke. I didn't realize that VSM is ONLY disabled in Movie Mode.

    He is currently using Memory mode on the medium setting. Cool is a bit blue looking and warm is too dark at this point. We don't jump around but as of tonight I "think" I finally set it to a setting to where he's somewhat happy and try to leave it till the calibration disc arrives later this week.

    Right now this is what he's set it at
    memory mode using medium setting
    Contrast 35
    Brightness 100
    Sharpness 20
    Color 40
    Tint +10

    I'm not too fond of the brightness set to 100 but the picture does look better this way than it has since he's got it. I do know that once the contrast is brought down to 15 the picture is literaly perfect just dark.

    We'll go from here. Oh I'll just continue here. You can ignore the AVS thread to keep it simple and in one place [​IMG] Thanks for all your help btw I really do appreciate your time and everyone elses. Having patience with a n00b can be frustrating. [​IMG]
     
  4. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
    Insider

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 1999
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    6,610
    Location:
    New England
    Real Name:
    Gregg Loewen
    For starters, use movie mode which will default the SVM to off and the color temp to warm.

    There is not a chance in Hades that the Brightness should be at 100, turn it down (or default movie mode at 50).

    remember contrast controls white level, and brightness controls black level.

    Best of luck!

    Gregg
     
  5. Wesley S

    Wesley S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks Gregg.

    Doesn't these preset modes automatically change back to memory mode once you move any setting? Now about the SVM. So once I'm in movie mode it's turned off automatically no matter what? So I should use movie mode and adjust from there?

    Thanks
     
  6. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Wes,

    Most people seem to use Movie mode or Memory mode which can mimic the Movie mode but allows some picture setting changes. Trying to calibrate this or any other set with the other factory pre-sets is useless. Once changes are made in Movie mode, you are correct that the Picture preference will shift to Memory. That is why I only use those two modes: Movie for DVD and digital sourcing and Memory for NTSC analog.

    Now, as to the brightness problem, as Gregg has pointed out Contrast affects White and Brightness Black. When you use the term brightness I take it to mean the screen light output. If the set looks good to their eyes at 100% Brightness something is wrong. I would first try to find the internal settings for SCNT and BRTC in the Service Menu. Post what they are here. It's difficult to make an evaluation without seeing the set in question. Changing these two values will shift the grey scale but it might be necessary if the original settings are off. Otherwise, it seems that everyone involved may be too used to viewing with improper settings.
     
  7. Wesley S

    Wesley S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well just to give you guys an idea. 99% of all viewing on this tv is from cable. I tried watching a few shows using movie mode and again everything is too dark. Even tried watching in the dark.
    Movie mode has all settings basically at 50. If anyone has dark colored clothing on it blends into the background and you can't even tell they are wearing that item. You can barely make out faces. I understand there is some adjusting to get used to but I just don't see getting used to a picture where you can hardly see anything using a preset from the menu like movie mode.

    As for contrast. Contrast is at 35 and brightness is at 100.

    I'll check the service menu options you listed..

    SCNT is set to ODH
    BRTC is set to 37H (assuming this is brightness)

    I have no idea as to what they mean [​IMG] I read your post where you listed them all but is there a site somewhere that lists what each means along with their values for better understanding?
     
  8. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wesley: By setting the black level (i.e., "brightness") at the maximum level, you're washing out the picture. That alone will make things look a bit blurry. Your blacks will simply be a light grey with the brightness set that high. Do as Gregg says and at least lower it to the Movie-setting 50-percent default. The TV was not designed to be run or watched that way. JB
     
  9. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Wes,

    My settings are SCNT 0BH and BRTC 3AH. Your SCNT is two clicks higher which may well help explain your ability to drop Contrast to 15 and find the picture near perfect except for overall darkness. Now my BRTC is two settings higher than yours from the factory but I have the 27" and yours is the 36". This may all be standard.

    Overall it seems that the complaint lies in an overly dark picture. I would raise the BRTC to at least my setting and perhaps even further. This will allow you to lower Brightness in the user menu. Grey scale will shift but you have already explained that this set is not put to critical viewing needs. You will be able to better evaluate once you have a calibration disc.
     
  10. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
    Insider

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 1999
    Messages:
    6,374
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    6,610
    Location:
    New England
    Real Name:
    Gregg Loewen
    I am going to be blunt...(dont take this the wrong way).

    Wesley, you are being a fool if you decide to go into your service menu. You have shown a total lack of understanding of what your controls do for your picture.

    BTW, every set will have different settings both in the user menu and the service menu. Trying to compare them is next to useless.

    Wesley, do you own Avia or Video Essentials? If not go buy it today, (or the cheaper sound and vision disc), then take the time to listen to what the disc says and then start to do the front panel settings correctly on your set. Once you do this, then report back to us with your results. After you have made some adjustments using the appropriate test patterns then we can properly assist you.

    Regards

    Gregg

    PS: you can also call me at 207 778 5417 to further assist you.
     
  11. Wesley S

    Wesley S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks Paul. I'll try that here in a min. I'll move the BRTC up a few clicks.

    Yea not having the disc is really putting a damper on the situation. What exactly does the disc do. It doesn't go though the service menu does it?


    Thanks Gregg. I understand where you are coming from. TVs aren't my thing, PCs are. We ordered a calibration disc and it should be here thursday or friday of this week. As far as a total lack of understanding, I wouldn't go that far. I understand what does what to some extent. No where close to what most of you guys know. Though I do know more now than I did before. What I don't understand is no matter what mode we set this tv to nothing looks right. I'm not saying perfectionist quality. I'm saying it doesn't look right. This shouldn't be rocket science, should it? [​IMG]. I'm just tyring to make it look acceptable at this point. It's either too dark or too fuzzy. I've had brightness up and brightness down. I understand having brightness up at 100 washes out the picture. I'm hoping the disc will at least help clear some of this up and give us an idea as to what a correct setting is "supposed" to look like. This is the idea behind the disc, correct? I appreciate all the help. If any of you have any reference to some material I could read to help me better understand contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc. Please post it here. I'm an information hog and maybe a better understanding will also help things. I don't want to assume there is anything actually wrong with the tv until I have the disc and see what that does.
     
  12. TimHON

    TimHON Agent

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wesley- I have to agree with Gregg here. Be very careful going into the service menu. Making changes in there can set off a chain reaction which is very hard for a person with little understanding of all the complex settings to correct if things go wrong. At the very least write down all settings before you start to make changes.
     
  13. Wesley S

    Wesley S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  14. Jay Mitchosky

    Jay Mitchosky Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 1998
    Messages:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     

Share This Page