New Toshiba DLP vs. Samsung?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Doug Miller, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Supporting Actor

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    I read about Toshiba's desire to come in and produce a few DLP rear projection models to compete with Samsung's DLP and their market share. Has anyone seen any new specifics or pictures?

    Also, what about color wheel speed differences compared to last years models? I bought a 43in Sammy but returned it because I couldn't get over the rainbow effect. What is the current color wheel speed on the HLN43 vs. Sammy's new 46in, and has anyone got any info on the new Toshiba DLP speeds w/pics?

    Thanks,
    Doug
     
  2. john_FE

    john_FE Stunt Coordinator

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  3. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Supporting Actor

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    One call has spec sheets and pictures for all models now:

    http://ww2.onecall.com/About_0000100..._248_6_0_0.htm

    The link is for the 46in ones (since that's the size I'm going to get). I haven't seen anything posted about the color wheel speeds though. I had a 43in Sammy but could see rainbows -- given how long Toshiba took to come out with their line, I'm willing to bet they've got the bugs figured out.

    Maybe some of you smarter folks than me can tell me what a few of the descriptions mean thought:

    - Double-speed 9-bit System with Enhanced Algorithms for Video Noise Elimination. (Whatever that means)

    - What is the Digital 3D Y/C Comb Filter (4MB, 10Bit) with Vertical Contour Correction? Why doesn't the 46HM94 say it has that?

    - Lastly, the $2999 one 46HM84 says it has a HD2+ DLP chip, while the $3399 one says it has a HD2+ DMD. What's the DMD? I know there are the HD2, and Sammy's HD3 on their opening price models coming out, but DMD? What's that?

    Of the 2 46in, I'm leaning towards the 46HM94 for the inputs alone. In terms of future needs, it comes with an extraa HDMI input, 2 IEEE1394, Memory Card slot, and a cable card slot (for the day when we need that). Pretty cool. Seeing the pictures makes it seem like it's coming closer to coming out -- Please, please, before the World Series.

    Doug
     
  4. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Supporting Actor

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    One call has spec sheets and pictures for all models now:

    http://ww2.onecall.com/About_0000100..._248_6_0_0.htm

    The link is for the 46in ones (since that's the size I'm going to get). I haven't seen anything posted about the color wheel speeds though. I had a 43in Sammy but could see rainbows -- given how long Toshiba took to come out with their line, I'm willing to bet they've got the bugs figured out.

    Maybe some of you smarter folks than me can tell me what a few of the descriptions mean thought:

    - Double-speed 9-bit System with Enhanced Algorithms for Video Noise Elimination. (Whatever that means)

    - What is the Digital 3D Y/C Comb Filter (4MB, 10Bit) with Vertical Contour Correction? Why doesn't the 46HM94 say it has that?

    - Lastly, the $2999 one 46HM84 says it has a HD2+ DLP chip, while the $3399 one says it has a HD2+ DMD. What's the DMD? I know there are the HD2, and Sammy's HD3 on their opening price models coming out, but DMD? What's that?

    Of the 2 46in, I'm leaning towards the 46HM94 for the inputs alone. In terms of future needs, it comes with an extraa HDMI input, 2 IEEE1394, Memory Card slot, and a cable card slot (for the day when we need that). Pretty cool. Seeing the pictures makes it seem like it's coming closer to coming out -- Please, please, before the World Series.

    Doug
     
  5. MikeKaz

    MikeKaz Stunt Coordinator

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    That is interesting. In short, DMD doesn't mean anything. It's just OneCall's sloppy method of writing their specs out. DMD stands for digital micromirror device, which is just the term used to describe the actual chip used in DLP to create the image, whereas DLP is used more to describe overall technology as a whole. A DMD is basically what makes a DLP display work. You could say that you have a DMD based TV or a DLP based TV , and you would basically be saying the same thing.
     
  6. MikeKaz

    MikeKaz Stunt Coordinator

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    That is interesting. In short, DMD doesn't mean anything. It's just OneCall's sloppy method of writing their specs out. DMD stands for digital micromirror device, which is just the term used to describe the actual chip used in DLP to create the image, whereas DLP is used more to describe overall technology as a whole. A DMD is basically what makes a DLP display work. You could say that you have a DMD based TV or a DLP based TV , and you would basically be saying the same thing.
     
  7. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Supporting Actor

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    I wanted to post a followup, which I'll also post in the Rainbow Progress Thread. The new 46in and 50-something Tantus models are in at my local retailer. Saw the sign on the billboard out front that said they were in, so I had to check them out.

    I had returned my 43in because I couldn't get over the rainbow effect and it was causing headaches... I know, sacrifices need to be made sometimes in the name of Home Theater, but that was overboard.

    Anyway, I stopped in to check out the new models. Before I even looked at it, I was asking the guy questions about whether the color wheel was changed, he said that the spec sheets were identical to the 43in -- but he also said the spec sheet wasn't right, so that he wasn't sure whether the speed had changed or not. Well, let me tell you, I don't know if they changed the speed or not, but I still see 'em. (dammit) I asked if he'd heard anything about the Toshiba, they aren't a Toshiba dealer so he didn't know (or wouldn't say, but I'd be on didn't know).

    So there you go, if you saw rainbows on last years models, you will on this one's too. It's a bummer because I really like the brightness of the DLP, now I'm leaning towards LCD. I could see the screen door effect on the 100in + screen standing in front of it, but a 42in from 5ft away couldn't, so I figure I'm OK there.

    I'll be very curious to see if anyone says anything or has seen the Toshiba's. I'm starting to wonder if this is just a flaw with the technology that will always be there.

    Doug
     
  8. Jonathan Dagmar

    Jonathan Dagmar Supporting Actor

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    The Toshibas will not be coming until fall....

    Panasonic has something up their sleeve too.....
     
  9. Scott Stevens

    Scott Stevens Stunt Coordinator

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    You won't see that digiupdate site updated anymore. The site's owner, Arun Gupta, died after being injured in a bicycle accident.
     
  10. kyle ^_^

    kyle ^_^ Agent

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    We just got the samsung into our store, ive never seen the picture on one of these and will be interested to see what it looks like when i hook it up tomorrow.
     
  11. Jason GT

    Jason GT Second Unit

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    Rainbows will almost always be an issue for single-chip DLP -- apparently the US Airforce was looking at using DLP for simulations but could not tolerate the rainbows (ghosted images). They did some studies and in a single-chip unit, the color wheel speed would have to be much higher than it is currently for all rainbow artifacts to disappear.

    3chip dlp shouldh ave no problems with rainbows.
     
  12. Jonathan Dagmar

    Jonathan Dagmar Supporting Actor

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    i personally can't see the rainbows....

    on the other hand i can't detect a great imporvement in black level on the samsung dlp that sits right next to the sony lcd in out store...

    JVC rep was in today, apparently JVC will be bringing a LCOS tv to market before the end of the year, two of them, in fact....
     
  13. Mike Boniferro

    Mike Boniferro Second Unit

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    The new samsung DLPs color wheel spins at the same rate, but it has an extra color on it to help with rainbows.

    Onecall was also more correct in it's description, since the chip itself is not a dlp. So if they are now using the HD2+, and some sets are going to use the HD3, DMD in their DLP sets.

    Panasonics DLP looks pretty good, but not fantastic. I still like the Samsung better. The Panasonic 50" that I saw had a ton of flicker and what I would call a blotchy picture that was noticeable until you were 15+ feet away. (and it has 8 color wheel segments)

    And as far as Toshiba goes, they probably won't fix the rainbows. They are touting their sets based on the fact that they have the best scalars in the business, but the actual picture generation it pretty much identical.
     
  14. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    I am salivating over 3 chip DLP's. I love the Samsung, but the rainbow's are unacceptable to me.
     
  15. Tyson Wetzel

    Tyson Wetzel Stunt Coordinator

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    Samsung vs. Toshiba DLP? MMM, I'd go with the LG.
     

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