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New to Home Theater - setup help (1 Viewer)

thj355

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Hi Everyone,

I have a decent sized basement, cement block walls... Seating is 10-12 feet from 120 inch screen. Got an Epson 5050ub to upgrade video. Using a Sony HTC 5000 7.2 dolby atmos soundbar, wanted to upgrade to a home theater audio system. I went with the speakers listed below:

Klipsch - R34C center
Klipsch - reference r820 towers
Klipsch - reference r51m surrounds
Klipsch - r120 12 inch sub
B&W - M1 - 4 inch, 100 watt speakers to use for atmos
Denon - 2700 receiver, 7 channel 95 watts per

A few questions...
How is this system going to sound? (reference point is the Sony 7.2 atmos soundbar which is good, but not enough bass, not enough clarity in voice, etc)
Will this receiver push the speakers at 95 watts?
Does it matter that not ALL of the speakers are klipsch?
Will the B&W speakers be ok to mount about halfway between couch and screen, up in the rafters pointed down at couch?
Will the B&W speakers be good atmos speakers, or is there a better option?

Thanks for any help you can provide. Appreciate it.

-Tom
 

JohnRice

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I have to wonder why you didn't ask before you bought the setup. The B&Ws should be fine for Atmos, and that sounds like a good place to mount them. The receiver won't actually provide anywhere near 95 watts when powering all the speakers. It's a little trick manufacturers play. If you look at the specs, it probably states the 95 watts is only "two channels driven" or possibly even just one. I didn't double check, but it's usually two. What that means is when you are driving seven channels, the power is significantly less. Fortunately, Klipsch speakers are efficient, which means they don't need much power, so it's fine.

How will it sound? Klipsch is definitely not my personal choice. They are a little one dimensional and lack resolution compared to the better options in the price range. However, those options are less efficient, so the receiver would have more trouble driving them sufficiently. It's all a tradeoff. The subwoofer is where you can particularly do better with one of the direct brands like SVS and Hsu.
 
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marter

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I have to agree with @JohnRice that you may be asking a question that you've already answered with your equipment. Will it sound better than the soundbar you have? I don't think there's any doubt that it will. Will you be happy with it? Depends on your expectations.

Do you have any ability to return some or all of this gear? You might want to comment on that, and let others know if they're wasting their time by suggesting different options. If you can return, then I think you'll get some good advice here.

To your specific questions:
  • As I said, this should sound better than your soundbar
  • As John mentioned, your watts per channel is rated for 2 channels driven. Driving all 5 (or 7/9 with Atmos) channels will reduce it. However, the Klipsch will be louder with a given power fed to it than most other speakers due to their sensitivity. You might want to start out with a 5.1 layout and hold off on the Atmos speakers to see if you have enough power
  • The mix of brands does not matter with Atmos speakers; general rule of thumb is to use the same brand/model for your front/center/right channels and to some extent the surrounds, but those are not as important
  • For Atmos speaker placement, take a look at the Dolby Atmos guides to see where they recommend Atmos placement
Good luck and don't be afraid to ask more questions that we can answer.
 

thj355

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Appreciated the responses, both John and Michael.

To answer why did I buy first then ask...
A) best buy had a sale on Klipsch that was ending Sunday
B) 2700 fits the desire for a 5.1.2, and I hear Denon is very good...

I can return anything and still have 40 days or so to try the setup out.

Prices:

Towers - $375 each
Center - $300
Surrounds - $200 each
Sub - $250
B&W - $500 / pair


Put the prices above because, I'm right around the $3k mark and would like to stay there.. but not if its very obvious, for example, that a 3700 would be so much better than a 2700 and I'll be upgrading my AVR in a year because I don't have enough power if that makes sense. I'd rather fork out another 400 now than deal with it in a year or two.

I completely get that you can't answer what my level of satisfaction will be / completely depends on my expectations. It's probably worth saying that I don't want the "rumble the entire house" bass... I actually would prefer to listen at a comfortable level, but want clarity and good sound... I'm not a loud listener. I listened to some DTs at best buy that I loved because they had such clarity. They're a bit pricey though, and the klipsch are cheaper. I certainly understand you get what you pay for, but I guess I'm trying to achieve good sound on a budget, some bass rumbling when it's needed, but mostly clear sound from all angles.

You're teaching me great things... makes complete sense that the AVR will not push 95 to all channels. Also didn't know that Klipsch are more sensitive, so that helps. Glad that I can mix and match... and I'll check out dolby recommendations. Thanks guys!
 

thj355

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Oh and @JohnRice - forgot to ask, appreciate the recommendation of sub... but it looks like it's double the price of the klipsch.. at least when the klipsch is half off. So the question then, wait to buy a second klipsch when it's cheap again... 2 12's better than 1 SVS? I get that the SVS is a better sub... is it more power effficient? Couldn't find the HSU that you mentioned
 

JohnRice

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Appreciated the responses, both John and Michael.

To answer why did I buy first then ask...
A) best buy had a sale on Klipsch that was ending Sunday
B) 2700 fits the desire for a 5.1.2, and I hear Denon is very good...

I can return anything and still have 40 days or so to try the setup out.

Prices:

Towers - $375 each
Center - $300
Surrounds - $200 each
Sub - $250
B&W - $500 / pair


Put the prices above because, I'm right around the $3k mark and would like to stay there.. but not if its very obvious, for example, that a 3700 would be so much better than a 2700 and I'll be upgrading my AVR in a year because I don't have enough power if that makes sense. I'd rather fork out another 400 now than deal with it in a year or two.

I completely get that you can't answer what my level of satisfaction will be / completely depends on my expectations. It's probably worth saying that I don't want the "rumble the entire house" bass... I actually would prefer to listen at a comfortable level, but want clarity and good sound... I'm not a loud listener. I listened to some DTs at best buy that I loved because they had such clarity. They're a bit pricey though, and the klipsch are cheaper. I certainly understand you get what you pay for, but I guess I'm trying to achieve good sound on a budget, some bass rumbling when it's needed, but mostly clear sound from all angles.

You're teaching me great things... makes complete sense that the AVR will not push 95 to all channels. Also didn't know that Klipsch are more sensitive, so that helps. Glad that I can mix and match... and I'll check out dolby recommendations. Thanks guys!
What I would suggest at least listening to, and Best Buy sells them, is the ELAC Debut v2. Don't be fooled by prices, because Klipsch massively inflates their prices so they have have big sales. The regular price for the Debut v2 is about the same as the sale price on the Klipsch, but they're significantly better speakers. The Klipsch sub is probably actually a pretty decent deal, so you could keep that, even with the ELACs. There is absolutely no need to match brands with the sub. In the Debut v2 line, the F62 is a little more than the ones you got, but the surrounds are a little less. They offer 5" and 6" models, and it would be maybe $100 more total than the Klipsch to go with the 6", which I would say is worth it. If you want to stay closer to the same price, you could get the 6" ones in the front and 5" surrounds.
 

Max Taxable

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Just hook it up and let it roar, you'll find out that you're gonna be fine. Keep all the packaging and receipts for the event that you don't dig the setup. You have a month to play with it. Find out what you DO have then if it's not love come back to this thread and start thinking about the great suggestions given.
 

JohnRice

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The fact is, you might love the Klipsch. Look at the BB site and you'll see their customer rating is slightly higher than the ELAC. Marketing and perception are powerful things. Personally, I think Klipsch is just not a good brand. It used to be and their "Heritage" models ($$$$$$) are much better, but still not as good as their price. Klipsch is a marketing juggernaut, and a remarkably successful one.
 

marter

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Well I'm glad you have some options and time to consider them.

You'll see a lot of opinions on Klipsch speakers; lot of people love them and a lot hate them. That's for you to decide based on your tastes. I do agree with John that the Elac offers a great value. As you can see from my signature I have Elac Uni-Fi 2.0s in front and tomorrow my Debut DB52s will be delivered to replace my rear surrounds. Watch some youtube reviews on them (Audiophiliac, New Record Day, Cheapaudioman) and you'll get an idea on where they fit in the scheme of things. I really like them.

You mentioned the distance from your main listening position to the screen but it would help to know how big the room is; ceiling height, whether it's open to adjoining space, etc. If it's big, you will probably need towers in front, but if you go to bookshelf speakers on stands for the front you can move a little money towards something else.

If it were me I'd look at other options for the receiver; I think you will be sorry you don't have more power. Take a look at the Denon X3600H (last year's model, in stock at Listenup) but it doesn't do 8K; don't know if that's important to you. Be aware there is a bug in the chipset on Denon and Marantz AVRs that affects 8K; you should read up on it.

The other area as John mentioned is the sub, but I have no experience with that sub. May be fine. I'd look at receiver options first, and since you have that window to return I'd listen to the Klipsch and see if you like them.

Good luck with your system.
 

thj355

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Appreciate the responses guys, some really good info here.

@marter - Thank you for telling me to look into the 8k issue... appears its also affecting 4k @120hz... fortunately I think my 5050ub will run at 60hz. The 3600 you mentioned, great idea.. but that sale is in store only :( I'll keep digging around to try to find something... seems AVRs are getting harder to find? Even in a few weeks since I started digging... stimulus checks perhaps. If I step from say, 900 (the price of 2700) up to the 1200-1500 range, recommendations? 3700 or should I look at Yamaha?

The room is pretty large, L shaped, but the part that has the theater is roughly 18x10 or so, the other part of the room is about 10 or 15 x5. Ceilings are open joists, about 10 feet high. The Sony soundbar sounds amazing in a smaller space, it doesn't do much in this room... so then I decided to go for something more powerful.

@JohnRice I can definitely tell that Klipsch seems to be a very polarizing speaker.. I suppose I'll have to take Max Taxable's advice and plug it up and try it. I did look at the ELACs at best buy... I'll keep that as the next option if the klipsch's aren't to my liking.

Again, really appreciate all the help! Great forum
 

JohnRice

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Thank you for telling me to look into the 8k issue... appears its also affecting 4k @120hz... fortunately I think my 5050ub will run at 60hz.
The refresh rate of the display doesn't matter. There were plasma displays over ten years ago with 600Hz refresh rate. This is only an issue with 8K, which doesn't really even exist, and may never be a factor in home video, and high frame rate gaming. Any current home video format is fully compatible.

If I step from say, 900 (the price of 2700) up to the 1200-1500 range, recommendations? 3700 or should I look at Yamaha?
That price range is a slam DUNK for the Marantz SR7013, which ListenUp does have available to ship. They also have the SR5014 for $1K, but if you're willing to go up to $1.4K, the 7013 is the way to go. $800 off. They are a very reputable seller who's been around for decades, in case you're concerned.
 

marter

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Appreciate the responses guys, some really good info here.

@marter - Thank you for telling me to look into the 8k issue... appears its also affecting 4k @120hz... fortunately I think my 5050ub will run at 60hz. The 3600 you mentioned, great idea.. but that sale is in store only :( I'll keep digging around to try to find something... seems AVRs are getting harder to find? Even in a few weeks since I started digging... stimulus checks perhaps. If I step from say, 900 (the price of 2700) up to the 1200-1500 range, recommendations? 3700 or should I look at Yamaha?

The room is pretty large, L shaped, but the part that has the theater is roughly 18x10 or so, the other part of the room is about 10 or 15 x5. Ceilings are open joists, about 10 feet high. The Sony soundbar sounds amazing in a smaller space, it doesn't do much in this room... so then I decided to go for something more powerful.

@JohnRice I can definitely tell that Klipsch seems to be a very polarizing speaker.. I suppose I'll have to take Max Taxable's advice and plug it up and try it. I did look at the ELACs at best buy... I'll keep that as the next option if the klipsch's aren't to my liking.

Again, really appreciate all the help! Great forum
Let's just say sometimes a phone call with Scott Genaw is "just like being there". Just sayin...

With your room sizes and being that open, you'll likely end up wanting to go with dual subs. I'd start with one but plan on two...

That price range is a slam DUNK for the Marantz SR7013, which ListenUp does have available to ship. They also have the SR5014 for $1K, but if you're willing to go up to $1.4K, the 7013 is the way to go. $800 off. They are a very reputable seller who's been around for decades, in case you're concerned.
John's right, this is a hell of a deal on the SR7013. I almost went that route but then decided to go with the X3600H and use the price difference to add an external amp if needed. Either choice is a solid one in my opinion.
 

JohnRice

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John's right, this is a hell of a deal on the SR7013. I almost went that route but then decided to go with the X3600H and use the price difference to add an external amp if needed. Either choice is a solid one in my opinion.
Tom is correct that ListenUp no longer has the X3600H available to ship. Available in store only.
 

RolandL

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I never had Klipsch speakers or Sony receivers before, but my HTR installer recommended them. I checked reviews and they were favorable.

In my HTR room I have:
Klipsch R-5502-W for L-C-R behind Dragonfly 145" Fixed UltraAcoustiWeave Acoustically Transparent screen.
Klipsch Reference Premiere RO-402S surround
Klipsch SPL-120SW-Black 12"subwoofer
Sony 810ES Series A/V Receiver

In my living room:
Klipsch R-5502-W for L-C-R in the walls
Klipsch PRO-180-RPC-White in the ceiling for surround
Klipsch RW-5802-white In wall Subwoofer
Sony 810ES Series A/V Receiver

Both rooms sound great!
 

thj355

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Thanks RolandL for the feedback - and appreciate John and Marter on the AVR recommendation.

Happy to report that setup is complete and I've fired up the speakers.. a few things to note:

I am very pleased with the sound - so much clarity, which is great for movies. Brings up a few more questions, hoping someone can help.

I am experiencing the issue on the Denon 2700 that @JohnRice warned me about... I am able to get the apple tv to play however by changing some of the settings, its just a huge pain.. and not something you should have to deal with on a brand new $900 receiver. Would the marantz 7013 have this same issue?

The sound is very clear and sometimes the bass is too much for a condo... so I've answered my question on "Do I need a second sub", this 12 inch will do.

Is the volume = watts... so in other words, if I'm not turning this one up to distortion, then more watts won't do anything for my sound quality... is that accurate? I guess I just don't understand the extra watts vs sound loudness which I don't need more of... but I think maybe the system is lacking some mid range maybe? I dunno.. I'm very happy with the sound but how would you know if you're "underpowered"... Thanks again
 

JohnRice

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Thanks RolandL for the feedback - and appreciate John and Marter on the AVR recommendation.

Happy to report that setup is complete and I've fired up the speakers.. a few things to note:

I am very pleased with the sound - so much clarity, which is great for movies. Brings up a few more questions, hoping someone can help.

I am experiencing the issue on the Denon 2700 that @JohnRice warned me about... I am able to get the apple tv to play however by changing some of the settings, its just a huge pain.. and not something you should have to deal with on a brand new $900 receiver. Would the marantz 7013 have this same issue?

The sound is very clear and sometimes the bass is too much for a condo... so I've answered my question on "Do I need a second sub", this 12 inch will do.

Is the volume = watts... so in other words, if I'm not turning this one up to distortion, then more watts won't do anything for my sound quality... is that accurate? I guess I just don't understand the extra watts vs sound loudness which I don't need more of... but I think maybe the system is lacking some mid range maybe? I dunno.. I'm very happy with the sound but how would you know if you're "underpowered"... Thanks again
Please refresh my memory. What issue with the 2700 did I warn you about?
 

thj355

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Maybe it was Marter, but you followed up saying that it has nothing to do with refresh rate... It's the 8k issue, but I think it's also affecting something with the apple tv and the output into the AVR, then into projector. what I'm experiencing is, setup starts up and projects on my screen... but then when you add an input (apple tv 4k), video does not show.. you have to tweak some of the settings. Earlier today I accidentally turned off surge protector, then turned back on... couldn't get the AVR to show ANYTHING for 45 min... had to restart the setup process of the AVR to get to the setting I needed to change, which I think maybe it was 4k /8k standard of enhanced... I'm not 100% sure, all I know is it works now but it's a pain. I'm trying to decide if the AVR is lacking any power or is not because the extra $500 isn't worth it to me unless the sound is marginally better... if it's going to be the same or just louder, I'll stick with this AVR
 

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