New to DIY-- trying to build a sub...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by John Parris, Aug 14, 2002.

  1. John Parris

    John Parris Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm pretty new to DIY (18 years old, so I guess I'm pretty new to a lot of things). I have SOME experience with sealed boxes (an old pair of DIY bookshelf speakers and a sub box for my brother's car), so I think I can find myself around the woodworking pretty easily.
    I want to add a sub to my stereo/home theater. Essentially 50% music, 50% HT use... I'm on a budget, and would like to keep it under US$400, but I am SOMEWHAT felxible on this. The room is about 18 x 20 feet with 8 ft ceilings. Big problem (i think) is very thin carpeting on essentially concrete floors (converted basement). My current speaker setup is the JBL S-312s, the S-center, and N-26s as surrounds. Size of the sub is not a conscern... at all. Neither are looks (to an extent). No SAF here. [​IMG]
    I would like a LOT of bass. I'm not expecting to get the same levels I get in my car (2 10" drivers with 200W RMS each), but I'd like a definate marked improvement in low-end levels in here. The more the better, but not at the expense of sound quality.
    What I am considering is essentially the Adire Alignment box on a ported Tempest (214L tuned to 15 Hz). I was considering pairing that with the PE 250W plate amp, and getting the nessasary flared ports straight from Adire. Now, I'm totally open to suggestion. Would anyone recommend any change in this, keeping in mind my uses for it (50/50 music/ht, LOTS of bass while keeping the SQ if possible)? Keep in mind I know very little about ported boxes and have zero experience in working with them, so if you think it might be a better idea to go sealed, let me know. Basically any input is welcome, and I'm sure I'll have some more questions. Thanks in Advance.
     
  2. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,281
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I highly recommend going with the Adire Alignment Tempest. I just built the same sub in April. It was my first DIY sub. I am in love with it. The size of my room is similar to yours but mine opens to the rest of the house. Regardless, I have great SPL all the way across the board. SQ is tremendous I think. No matter what kind of pandemoneum(sp?) is going onscreen, the Tempest is always with it. Never loses a beat.

    Ill stop because the others here will explain it better than I can.
     
  3. John Parris

    John Parris Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the quick reply, anyway. Wasnt expecting much until a more reasonable hour, considering it's 4AM here. [​IMG]
    The whole need for bass actually arose out of this one track in particular. 10 Million Ways by DJ Hype (I like a lot of drum and bass stuff). Compared to the INSANE levels of bass in my car, My S-312s PALE in comparison when it comes to bass response... Could barely hear all the intricate bass work (Lots of bass lines around 35-50 Hz). So then I moved my setup into a bigger room (this one) and lost even MORE low end [​IMG] MUST HAVE BASS [​IMG]
    Hopefully that little 4am rant will give you guys an idea of how much of a basshead I am.
     
  4. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,281
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, I assure you that the need for bass will be fulfilled when/if you build yourself a Tempest. Or any similar subs. The new Tumult is out of your reach because of the low $$$ you want to put into it. I had the exact same problem as you do. Spent about $400 making my Tempest. Best money I invested in my theater, aside from the essentials. Seeing as how you are used to car audio you will be out right blown away when you discover the deep, sub-sonic bass that has been hiding in your Dvds, cds, etc.
     
  5. John Parris

    John Parris Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm actually going to wait about a month or two before tackling this project, so the Tumult should be out and about by then... who knows, maybe by then it'll be a viable option. Anyone know what kind of power will be needed for a Tumult? Would the PE plate amp be enough?
     
  6. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Something tells me you'd probably think the Adire alignment is too dry. If you want more slam just build the box but keep the port accessible. You could change the tuning (higher) to maybe get what you want.

    Pete
     
  7. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    38,749
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    If you're used to huge amounts of bass inside a car, you'll learn that home theater bass is a different animal (aims to go lower, flatter) and not to expect to get that chest thumping bass (from car bass with accentuation of the 30-40Hz range) unless you have a small room, or use many drivers for the sub project(s).

    Home theater bass is more enveloping, you feel it on the low end, more than hear it. But it is dependent on the room size and how much output the subs can generate. Even with such trade-offs, a well placed and constructed HT sub can provide a lot of enjoyment when watching DVDs at home.

    Welcome to the forum.
     
  8. Ron D Core

    Ron D Core Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Last week I finished my Dayton DVC 15" sonosub. I wasn't quite sure what to expect from it since I never heard one. From what I understand its similar to the tempest. It's in a 20" X 47" (internal) tube tuned to 17Hz or something like that. The endcaps are tripled up MDF and it sits about 5 inches off the base plate. If you listen to allot of D&B like I do then you would like the way it sounds. It doesn't pound in the higher end (50-up) like one may expect after dealing with car audio. But when it goes low, the whole room pulsates and neighbors become agitated. Its quite a strange difference over the car audio I'm used to, but then again I never built an EBS alignment in my car. I love it though and I'm sure you would too. I'm running it with a PE 250 plate amp, but It doesn't seem to be able to handle that much power under the tuning frequency so you can probably get away with the 105 watt plate amp with about the same sound. I got the amp on sale but the sub itself with shipping and materials ran me about $200 (Dayton DVC 15, 20"X50" sono, 2 yards black felt, screws, 1 sheet MDF, bannana jacks, 18"X30ft fiberglass insulation.)
     
  9. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If you are looking to save some money then the Dayton DVC15" is a very viable option to the Tempest. Pair it with the PE 300-794 and you'll have an excellent sub.

    If you really want to be able to push the sub I'd recommend going a little bit bigger than 214L so you can get a reasonable length 6" port in the enclosure. Combine this with a mod (swap two resistors) to the PE plate amp to give you an appropriate rumble filter and you'll have one very nice sub.

    Although if you want more of the chest thump there is no problem fitting a 6" port in smaller enclosures when you tune up around 22-25hz instead of 16-18hz.

    For the Tumult keep in mind that you either go small seals with a LT transform with well over a kilowatt of power. Or you go mid sized passive radiator with around a kilowatt of power. So between driver amp and passive radiators/LT circuit you'll be looking at 2-3 times the budget you gave.
     
  10. John Parris

    John Parris Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    v Thanks for all the input guys.
    Pete-- that's what I was thinking at first, but I think it's probably just me being a skeptic in general. How would a higher tune affect the sound in general? Also, which would be the prefered method of chaging the tune? Different length port? Dif. size port? Changing the box specs a bit? (Like I said... I'm new to ports)
    Patrick-- I probably should have stated that I do have a bit of experience with commercial HT subs and high-end HT, so I'm not totally alien to the concept. [​IMG] Like I said, I'm not expecting the same mid-bass punch I get from my car setup, but I would just like a lot more low-end in my music and seeing as how I lack a sub entirely at the moment, a BIG boost in LFE [​IMG]
    Ron-- I thought about a smaller amp as well, but I think I'm gonna go with the 300-794 just so i'll have some headroom on the power.. I don't wanna have to "get away" with a small amp... wouldnt want to cut it short and have too little.
    Dustin-- I had thought about the Dayton as well. Still considering it as a Tempest alternative... The plans from Adire call for dual 3" ports in the 214L box. Would changing from dual 3" ports to a single 6" port make a difference? (Other than the 6" port needing to be tuned higher, like you mentioned.) A pity about the Tumult. Looks like dual Tempests would be cheaper [​IMG]
    To all-- as far as tuning goes, I would really like a smoothe sound overall. I can't really accept the tradeoff of maximum SPL for sound quality. May have been a little misleading in this area. I'd like to keep the tuning low (below 20Hz) so I can get that nice flat response out of it if I can.
     
  11. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,281
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One thing you gotta watch out for with higher tuning, is that if you watch something with something really loud below your tuning, you could bottom it.
     
  12. John Parris

    John Parris Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was aware of that one, Scott... one of the reasons I wanted to keep the tuning low (under 20Hz).
     
  13. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 17, 2000
    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A single 6" port in 214 liters would be too long at ~41". As Dustin said, make a bigger enclosure if you want to use a 6" port. I doubt there's much wrong with Adires recommended build, tho.

    Pete
     
  14. Mark Fitzsimmons

    Mark Fitzsimmons Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2001
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was in the same boat as you. Similar size room, similar existing equipement, and a similar goal. I am currently building a 122L sealed Tempest with 250w PE plate amp. Haven't heard it yet because I'm waiting on my Tempest to get here.

    Its costing me about $325 to build. So its well in you budget, if I had more space and didn't have to deal with the parents I would have built it Adire Aligned vented, but am now almost glad I didn't. My 122L enclosure is HUGE!

    No matter how you choose to build, I don't think you can beat the Tempest for the money.
     
  15. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,281
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh John, I dont have any pictures of my Tempest. It is pretty plain. No veneer, paint, just a primer coat.
    This is what mine looks like:
    [​IMG]
    Here is the site that would show you how to make it.
    http://thend.org/~dannydigital/tempesthowto.html
     
  16. John Parris

    John Parris Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mark: I would go sealed if it was strictly for music, but for that extra low-bass punch in HT use, I would just totally miss out with a sealed enclosure. I guess we're not in the SAME boat because I actually WANT the thing to be big [​IMG] It'll be dwarfed a little by my S-312s anyway... those are pretty beefy.
    Scott- Yeah, that's the closest thing Ive seen to the exact Adire Alignment (except for where he cut out for the amp). I'll probably do something very similar (leave it unfinished at first) since looks arent really important down here (about 4 dif. kinds/stains of wood and various other things that don't match).
    Thanks for all the help guys... I think I'm gonna go ahead with the Adire alignment per their specs from the site. If I dont like it, oh well... at least it'll give me something to do [​IMG]
     
  17. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    1,281
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I know you will like it.

    When do you plan on building this?
     
  18. John Parris

    John Parris Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hopefully can finish it before the end of September... not exactly sure when I'll get around to it.
     

Share This Page