New system in custom home by rookie help!

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Scott Sheridan, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. Scott Sheridan

    Scott Sheridan Auditioning

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    Somehow I have yet again, gotten myself into another project with what I am discovering has a pretty steep learning curve.

    One of my security clients is building a custom waterfront home and asked me if I would do the theater system as well.
    I of course said SURE, no problem. As a lifetime student in everything from flying to falconry, I still cant resist challenge and opportunity. (need to work on this)

    The theater room is 20'x 22' and has 10 feet tall ceilings and alot of glass and big open doorways to other rooms, I bet there isnt much over 20' of wall to the floor in the whole room and he doesnt want to have any "distractions" to take away from the view of the water that is instantly available as soon as you enter the front door, this house is very open inside.

    So far I have decided on a 7.1 system, probably a Yamaha 110w or 130w newer line receivers in the 5 - 800 dollar range. As far as main speakers, I think a concealed ceiling system is the ticket. I have heard alot of speakers in the 279-600 $ (msrp) range and so far I am leaning towards the Boston acoustics DSI465 or the DSI485. The "pros" at the nearest, well know audio store say they are the best bang for the buck. And a Definitive pro sub 100.

    Now I am not trying to stir the pot at all here. I am mainly a securtiy/digital cctv/home automation guy and would love to hear what all you audiophiles think about my plan, picks, and this systems potential.

    The plasma will be in the left corner and I am laying the soundstage out diagonaly to the back.

    All help, suggestions, criticism is welcome. I am mearly trying to provide ths fella with a nice source of entertainment on somewhat of a budget. Around 3-4000 dollars, excluding the Pioneer plasma of course.

    Thank You very much,

    scott
     
  2. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    Welcome to the Forum, Scott!

    I realize your client probably isn’t a discriminating listener, but in-ceiling speakers are as bad as it gets for the front speakers. The problem is they will be firing at the floor right above and to the sides of the TV. They should be aimed at the listening area, so if standard free-standing speakers aren’t an option, then you at least need in-walls there. In-ceilings will be fine for the rear speakers, as long as they are positioned correctly relative to the primary viewing seat.

    Another thing, a 10” sub barely gets the job done in a tract-home-sized bedroom, so don’t be surprised if the Pro100 doesn’t cut it in a room that large.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  3. Scott Sheridan

    Scott Sheridan Auditioning

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    Thanks Wayne, I appreciate the insight. Anybody else out there with additional comments?

    scott
     
  4. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Scott, since you're asking for analysis/criticism of a proposed entire system (and are also asking for alternatives), your thread has been moved to A/V Sources. The Basics area strictly is for general conversation with beginners -- not for purchasing advice.
     
  5. Scott Sheridan

    Scott Sheridan Auditioning

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    Sorry about that Jack, I am just in a bit of a pinch on time here. He comes to me late and the place gets drywalled in 10 days. I will read the rules and save you the "police" work.

    John,

    If you are still there, the plasma is going to be a 50" I believe and will sit approx. 48" off the floor on top of a gas fired fire place in the corner of the room. (I know thats bad and I tried to tell him) I have set the listening area out diagonaly about 15' back from the tv/fireplace corner. His brother in law is buying the tv as a house warming gift for him, Ihave little say in that decision. $3000.00 tops, 7.1 system with receiver. Ive been looking at Boston Acoustics speakers at Autorrizedelectronics.com. I have heard alot of good coments from different sources on that product line. And a Yamaha 130 x 7 receiver, the newer line. Any advice you can give me? If you need more info, let me know, I really need the help. Now I am thinking about BA DSI 485s for the rear channels and p432 or 440s for the front 3 channels and possibly the pv900 (BA) sub. I would like to do a one stop shop as much as possible.

    Thank You VERY MUCH,
    scott
     
  6. John S

    John S Producer

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    Interesting system....

    I found this setup... Price is good.

    http://ww1.onecall.com/PID_26363.htm

    I really think the sub would not be good enough for me still in this room though, probably just adaquate for most people thouigh.

    I also see BA doesn't really offer anything beyond a single 12" driver sub it would seem? I'm sort of down on single 12" subs these days for larger rooms.
     
  7. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    Before you do that you might want to take a look at this:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=525677

    I’m with John that a 12” sub probably will be marginal in this room. Fortunately it will be easy enough to fix that after the fact, if that proves to be the case

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  8. Charlie Campisi

    Charlie Campisi Screenwriter

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    Hey Scott-

    I agree with Wayne and John re the types of speakers and size of the sub. You should obviously check out the sub models from SVS and Hsu that are within your budget. I do have one bit of advice for you on a customer standpoint. You should tell your customer that his room is flawed as far as what one would want in an ideal home theater. He probably already realizes this, but I know that when I am a customer I can take flaws, as long as they are explained to me up front.

    The main issues -
    1. high ceilings
    2. open floor plan
    3. tv in the corner/soundstage directed diagonally

    All of these will wreak havoc on optimizing his sound, not to mention all the windows will compromise the picture, tho a plasma is good for that application because they are very bright. The big open space will suck the life out of the sub. The windows and open doorways will cause reflections and "holes" in the sound. The corner focus of the room will also make dealing with odd reflections difficult.

    Now, we all work within the space we have. Sounds like a wonderful house/room, just not ideal for a home theater. Telling him that you are going to put in a system that will be very good, but won't equal that in a dedicated HT room because of the room layout will save your bacon when some audiophile snob like me goes to your customer's house for dinner and tells him about everything that is wrong with the room. [​IMG]
     
  9. Scott Sheridan

    Scott Sheridan Auditioning

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    I couldnt agree more with everything everyone has said so far. Some things are just simply out of my control though and I have to do the best with what I have to work with. I truly appreciate everyones insight in this matter. I have learned so much from this little expedition and I will probably have the customer read these posts. The room layout was the main reason why I wanted to do a complete ceiling system in this particular installation. Less chance for sound reflecting all over the place and hopefully knocking down some of the setup issues. I just dont think a ceiling system will be adequate in the power dept. though. One saving grace on the sub issue is that I plan to pre wire 3 locations J.I.C. (and could possibly add another later)

    That system that John pointed out doesnt look to bad but would probably be good for my little basement, I just dont think it will cut it in this guys geat room. Thanks John!

    With all things considered, at this point I am running out of time for a layout plan and a purchasing decision. I am really leaning towards Boston Acoustic speakers for this 7.1 system with exposed front mains and recessed rear ceilings. I do have a friend that is a techno audio guy that laid out the ceiling system.

    The room layout is a s follows: walking in, the fireplace/tv is in the far left corner. Looking to the right there is 2 feet of wall then a slider door opening (8') to a deck and water view. Then 3 feet of wall to the corner. After the corner is 2-3 feet of wall and the a big opening to the dining area, probably 10-12', then 4' of wall to the opposite corner of the tv. From the left of the tv corner is 3 feet of wall then a slididng glass door (8'), then mabey 7' of wall to the corner. Standing in the room, looking back at the opening you came in it is probably 12' wide.

    Now I know this is asking alot of you fins folks and wouldnt blame you a bit if you blew this post off and that wouldnt offend me in the least, I understand. I do however wonder if anyone out there has any other ideas for this room that havent been discussed so far or if anyone would care to elaborate on or modify the designs that are currently available to me. And might there be any better speaker reccomendations other than BA that will keep me in budget. I am only leaning to BA from what I have herd several people say. I will check out the subs mentioned in the previous post.

    Thank You Very Much for your time and understanding.

    scott
     
  10. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    I second what Charlie says.
    Is there a budget? If so, what is it? What is the owner looking for? Does he just want a nice room to watch some movies in surround sound or does he want to WOW his guests. For the latter, try looking at www.projectorcentral.com. Front projectors always amaze, but are not very good in a situation with poor light control. Of course, money can compencate for that. I have to go now, but let us know what you decided to do. Maybe some pics?
     
  11. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    From Charlie’s “main issues” list, IMO #3 – a diagonal room layout - can be the most problematic. This is because most people don’t follow through and set up the rest of the room correctly. They will usually arrange the furniture as if the TV was on one of the straight walls, and also place the rear speakers accordingly. What you end up with is everything really lop-sided. The monitor and front speakers are off to one side in relation to the seating, and one of the rears often ends up being much close to the seating than the other.

    That said, a corner arrangement can work fine if it’s done right. In this case “right” would be arranging the seating so that it faces the screen. Of course this means that the seating is all on a 45-degree in the room. Problem is, a lot of people aren’t willing to do this.

    And actually, in-ceiling speakers will work well for a diagonal arrangement. With regular box speakers, the rears would all end up being 45-degrees off the side walls to properly aim at the seating (something else most people don’t want to do in a corner arrangement). Hopefully your audio friend has already figured all this out.

    Make sure at least one of those is a corner as close to the front of the room and as far away from an opening in the wall as possible. Most likely this will be the best location.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  12. Jason GT

    Jason GT Second Unit

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    I don't have anything to add about the install itself, but it appears that nobody has mentioned a CRITICAL ingredient for a non-enthusiast user:

    a good remote that isn't too complex and doesn't require too much HT knowlege to use.

    Scott, obviously it's impossible for this job but have you ever considered getting CEDIA training?
     
  13. Scott Sheridan

    Scott Sheridan Auditioning

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    Thanks for all the help. With all the comments from everyone, I know that this system will turn out much better than it would have without you keen insight and Many Thanks to the powers that be for this forum.

    I am going to reccomend the HSU or comporable sub and all 3 prewires for it will be in corners but I dont know how close to the front without being near an opening I can get it though.

    I plan to go forward and reccomed the Ba series of speakers mentioned earlier since no one here has blasted them and I have heard alot of good things about them.

    I do intend to get certified in this field, obviously a crutial necessity for this profession. The fundemental constraint is time...everyones problem these days. Total budget I would say is not to exceed $3000. for the total sound system and as usual the lower the better.

    One last final question before I cut you fine people loose;

    Has anyone had dealings with authorizedelectronics.com? It looks like they have some real good prices but I was wondering about the ship time and cust. service.

    Many thanks for everyones help.

    Sincerely,

    scott
     
  14. TonyDi

    TonyDi Auditioning

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    bump
     

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