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New Superman and Lois series in Development for the CW (1 Viewer)

jayembee

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My above post was incorrect. Stargirl starts August 10th in The Flash's time slot so presumably "The Flash" will end its season August 3 unless there is a break before "Stargirl" starts. There is a new episode of "Superman and Lois" the night "Stargirl" begins. "Superman and Lois" has 10 more episodes to air this season so there will most likely be a few weeks without a new episode so they can have new episodes available to air in August. I believe I read "The Flash" will have 18 episodes this season. "Supergirl"'s final season has 20 episodes.

18 for Flash has been my guess, but I hadn't seen anything anywhere that stated even an unofficial number.

I charted out the runs for Stargirl and Supergirl. If there are no interruptions for specials or repeats, Stargirl's finale should be on Nov 2nd, along with Supergirl 6x18. It would be reasonable to assume that Supergirl would then have a 2-hour finale the following week.

Assuming once more, this time that they don't want to have both "Super" shows running concurrently -- unless they want to pull a surprise crossover before Supergirl wraps -- I would agree with the guess that S&L won't be back until at least January.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Good to have this one back. Tonight's return episode moved all of the storylines forward in significant ways:
  • Jordan is faced with the consequences of using his powers in rash and impulsive ways. One of the interesting things about the two brothers is that you see bits of their father in both of them. Jordan has the powers, but Jonathan has the integrity; intercepting that punch at the cost of just about every bone in his hand was a classic Superman move. And the only think separating Jordan from the "Smallville"-esque meteor freaks (or Tag, in this episode) is that he has the support of his two extraordinary parents.

  • Lois is closer than ever to discovering what Morgan Edge is really up to in those mines, and she's also found reasons to be really suspicious of "Marcus". A lot of the Arrowverse shows rely on their characters acting uncharacteristically stupid in order to drive the plot forward. So far this show has avoided that. Lois is catching onto things exactly as quickly as one would expect of an investigative journalist with her reputation.

  • The conflict between Superman and the military/Clark Kent's father-in-law is steadily building. While the relationship isn't nearly as antagonistic as it was hinted to be in the early seasons of "Supergirl", Superman clearly distrusts the DoD and the DoD has given him reasons to be distrustful. And again, because he doesn't have the benefit of a team backing him up like the other Arrowverse heroes, the show is forced to allow him to be more singularly competent than the other heroes.

  • Sarah Cushing is getting drawn more and more into the superhuman side of things; she was abducted by a supervillain for the first time, and she was saved by Superman for the first time. Her patience and understanding with regard to Tag bodes well for when she gets pulled even deeper into the Kent family drama.

  • Lana Lang is willing to risk her marriage and her family's financial security to help Lois uncover the truth. Emmanuelle Chriqui is great at playing Lana as the small town, salt of the Earth good samaritan without making her simple or too naive.
TVLine had an interview with showrunner Todd Helbing where he discusses the lack of connections to the other Arrowverse shows. The second episode originally featured a scene with Lois packing up her desk after she quit the Daily Planet, which prominently featured a photo of Kara with her and Clark, but it got cut for the time. The crossover event was supposed to be between this show and "Batwoman", but the COVID-19 shooting restrictions made any crossovers this year impossible. It sounds like they're waiting to see how feasible crossovers will be going forward before making any moves to reference the other shows.
 

jayembee

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Superman's "Stand down!" moment with the soldiers was scary. You knew in both your head and your heart that he wouldn't do anything unforgivable in that moment, but Hoechlin delivered that so well that you could almost believe that he would. Certainly, he convinced the soldiers. :) It also helped underscore what he said to Jordan about being "tested".

Maybe it was too obvious, and they felt badly enough for Jordan not to say it, but I was expecting either Clark or Lois to point out to him that as badly as he felt for breaking Jonathan's arm, he should consider the possibility that if Jonathan didn't intercept the punch, Jordan could've snapped the boy's neck when the punch landed.

I have to say that I've been very disappointed in the writing for all of the Arrowverse shows this season. Superman & Lois is a singular exception.
 

NeilO

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So this week we find out that just the ship was supposed to be used by Luthor and so the ai thinks it is Commander Luthor using it. A little deception to keep us on our toes.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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I'm wondering if the Superman of the Stranger's Earth got overwritten like the humans granted Kryptonian powers have been. It would explain the sudden personality change.

So this week we find out that just the ship was supposed to be used by Luthor and so the ai thinks it is Commander Luthor using it. A little deception to keep us on our toes.
And his real identity also had impact; John Henry Irons was Steel, one of the four successors to Superman in the "Reign of the Supermen" comic book arc. It also means that he's an antagonist but not necessarily a villain; he may be won over before the season is done.

The reveal that the John Henry Irons of this Earth died six years previously helps align the show with the post-Crisis rules for doppelgängers from other Earths established on "Batwoman".

I hope they get into exactly what happened to bring him to Earth-Prime (or whatever Earth this show is set on, if it's not in the same continuity with the other Arrowverse shows). That Lois from another Earth has a daughter with Irons who is either dead or left behind feels like one heck of a dangling thread, too. If his home Earth was one of the ones that got rebooted at the end of Crisis, she might still exist out there. She wouldn't have a doppelgänger on this Earth either, since this Lois (like the Lois on most Earths we've seen) married Clark instead. But it wouldn't just mean that Lois would have an almost-daughter; Jonathan and Jordan would have an almost-half-sister.
 

John Sparks

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I dropped The Flash because of all the alternate universe plots. Looks like Superman and Lois is going down that same path...I'm hoping not.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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I dropped The Flash because of all the alternate universe plots. Looks like Superman and Lois is going down that same path...I'm hoping not.
I don't think they're going to delve into it as heavy as "The Flash" did, because this is a much more grounded show. Other than Irons (and maybe his daughter) I don't think we're going to be seeing anybody else from another Earth.
 

Sam Favate

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I'm enjoying this show, even if the story does get caught up in the CW's "drag everything out" pace of the other DC shows. The best thing about it is the cast, each of whom is really good. The show also has beautiful photography, and I can see why they'd want it set in Kansas as opposed to another big city.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Another strong episode tonight. Lois having miscarried with a daughter who was to be named Natalie, and then seeing snapshots of the life of the daughter Natalie on another Earth understandably brought up a lot of emotions. It also provided an opportunity to contrast how Lois and Clark process their feelings. Lois is all fire, which most of the time is part of what makes her a good investigative journalist. Clark is a lot more controlled, because he has to be; if he flew off the handle even once, it would be a calamity.

The divide within the family between the powered members and the non-powered memories is growing more stark, too. Jonathan seeing a man who looks exactly like his father brutally murder his mother is also going to leave an impression, even if it's not fair to his actual dad. The ways these four people navigate those fault lines is interesting to watch.

I still miss the red trunks, but otherwise this is my favorite live action Superman costume, and probably the first one to get the "S" shield completely right. You look at him, and instantly know it's Superman.

I'm interested to see what they do with John Henry Irons going forward, now that he and Superman are more frienemies than enemies. It again speaks to Superman's innate goodness that the day after Irons tried to kill him, he is able to empathize with Irons and what he's been though.

I liked the subplot with Sarah and her dad, too. Kyle's been such a one-note d-bag, it was nice to see him try to be a decent dad, and then watch the way his pride and his alcoholism led him to fall short again. I also like that the Kent brothers are genuinely good friends to Sarah, whatever other feelings they may have for her.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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This show continues to impress.
I like that, even though it's a family drama, every now and again we get a scene that's pure Superman, like when he foiled the bank heist in Mexico.

And that ending...I sure as hell wasn't expecting that!
I figured it was something along those lines:
It didn't make sense that Edge would create an army of Kryptonians unless he himself was Kryptonian. It does raise certain questions though:
  • Edge doesn't appear to know that Clark Kent is Superman. Given that Clark could hear a bank heist going down in another country, it seems implausible that Edge wouldn't have heard the Kent family's conversations across town.
  • Edge called Clark his brother. Was that supposed to be literal or metaphorical?
  • If literal, it's interesting that Edge had a different crest on his chest. Assuming that this show does take place in the merged post-"Crisis" Arrowverse, then the "S" shield is the crest of the house of El, used by both Clark as Superman and Kara as Supergirl, with only slight variations. Was Edge perhaps illegitimate? Was he born to Kal-El's mother before she married Jor-El?
  • It seems like that the difference between this Earth and Irons's Earth is that the Kal-El of Irons's Earth was likely raised by Edge, while the Kal-El of this Earth was raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Another strong episode tonight.

I still don't love the idea of the season's Big Bad being Kal-El's brother, but the fact that he's only a half-brother helps a bit. And given that Kal-El's parents were the only ones who anticipated Krypton's destruction, it makes sense that the only people who escaped in time would have a connection to Kal-El's parents: Jor-El and Lara's son, Jor-El's niece, and Lara's first son.

Tal-Ro's origin story basically being Brightburn was interesting, too. Kal-El was extraordinarily lucky to be found by the Kents, and Kara -- thanks to her delayed arrival -- had Kal-El watching out for her and guiding her to a good home. Tal-Ro wasn't so lucky, and those experiences hardened him into the villain he has become.

Speaking of Kara: This was a case where the lack of crossover opportunities due to COVID and Melissa Benoist's maternity leave strained story credibility a bit. Given the scope of the threat, Superman really could have used another pro-human Kryptonian in his corner.

Although I guess the show still hasn't actually confirmed that it takes place on the same Earth as the other Arrowverse shows; certainly there are a number of things that don't jive with the pre-Crisis world building on "Supergirl". I am glad that Tal-Ro and his followers were described by Lara as the exception rather than the rule, and that most of Krypton was the peaceful and enlightened advanced civilization it had previously been depicted as being.

The interesting thing about Clark and Lois's boys is that the one who has Superman's impeccable moral instincts is not the one with Superman's powers. Jonathan was right to tell Sarah the truth about her father. Keeping the Kent family's secrets is one thing. But the truth about her dad wasn't their secret to keep.

I do wonder about where the Kal-El of John Henry Irons's Earth and this Kal-El diverged. Obviously, a major difference is that this Kal-El married Lois Lane and had two sons with her. But even if this Kal-El hadn't married Lois, I still can't see him betraying humanity. Was that Kal-El not raised by the Kents? Was his costume black and white instead of red, yellow, and blue because he fell under the sway of his half-brother from a much earlier age?
 

jayembee

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Another strong episode tonight.

I still don't love the idea of the season's Big Bad being Kal-El's brother, but the fact that he's only a half-brother helps a bit. And given that Kal-El's parents were the only ones who anticipated Krypton's destruction, it makes sense that the only people who escaped in time would have a connection to Kal-El's parents: Jor-El and Lara's son, Jor-El's niece, and Lara's first son.

Tal-Ro's origin story basically being Brightburn was interesting, too. Kal-El was extraordinarily lucky to be found by the Kents, and Kara -- thanks to her delayed arrival -- had Kal-El watching out for her and guiding her to a good home. Tal-Ro wasn't so lucky, and those experiences hardened him into the villain he has become.

Speaking of Kara: This was a case where the lack of crossover opportunities due to COVID and Melissa Benoist's maternity leave strained story credibility a bit. Given the scope of the threat, Superman really could have used another pro-human Kryptonian in his corner.

Although I guess the show still hasn't actually confirmed that it takes place on the same Earth as the other Arrowverse shows; certainly there are a number of things that don't jive with the pre-Crisis world building on "Supergirl". I am glad that Tal-Ro and his followers were described by Lara as the exception rather than the rule, and that most of Krypton was the peaceful and enlightened advanced civilization it had previously been depicted as being.

The interesting thing about Clark and Lois's boys is that the one who has Superman's impeccable moral instincts is not the one with Superman's powers. Jonathan was right to tell Sarah the truth about her father. Keeping the Kent family's secrets is one thing. But the truth about her dad wasn't their secret to keep.

I do wonder about where the Kal-El of John Henry Irons's Earth and this Kal-El diverged. Obviously, a major difference is that this Kal-El married Lois Lane and had two sons with her. But even if this Kal-El hadn't married Lois, I still can't see him betraying humanity. Was that Kal-El not raised by the Kents? Was his costume black and white instead of red, yellow, and blue because he fell under the sway of his half-brother from a much earlier age?

(1) I agree. Another strong episode. It's hard to believe that they still have another five episodes to go for the season. The pacing is...ah...faster than a speeding bullet.

(2) There seems no doubt about Brightburn being in the forefront of their minds, but this isn't the same. Brightburn was meant to be the flip side of the "nature vs nurture" concept. Like Superman, BB was found and adopted by a kind, loving couple. But he came from an apex predator race, and his nature won out over his Earth parents' influence.

(My problem with the film was that it gave lip service to the concept, by having BB say that he wanted to be good. But we never saw any inner turmoil being played out. BB basically just said that he wanted to be good, but we never saw him actually try.)

Tal-Ro, however, was hunted from the start. The real difference between Tal and Kal, though, was that Tal was, what, about 10-12 when he landed, while Kal was a baby. That Tal was influenced by his Kryptonian heritage before he got to Earth had as much to do with how he dealt with his circumstances than the reactions of the Earthers. In that sense, Tal is more of a flip side of Kara than of Kal.

But more to the point, at his age, Tal had been vested with a "mission" to further his father's plan for turning Earth into a new Krypton. So he was already "fruit from the poisonous tree", and the comparison to Kal isn't quite on the nose.

(3) Yes, it really is a shame that Covid basically screwed the chances of forging the connection between this show and Supergirl. There really does seem to be a complete disconnect between the backgrounds. But part of me just feels like saying, "screw it" and not be overly concerned with the continuity. In the same way I still want to think of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. as being part of the MCU, even though that ship has clearly sailed.

(4) That Lois married Irons on...oh, let's call it "Earth-A"...is, I think, more significant in how different the two Earths are, and, I think, shows Irons's bias in how he views Superman. Of course, he doesn't know that on Earth-Prime, Lois is married to Superman, so it's possible that on Earth-A, Lois was a close friend of Superman in the same way that she's perceived to be on Earth-Prime. So JHI doesn't see how different that could make things.

The trouble is that we don't know enough about Earth-A to understand what other differences -- or lack thereof -- there might be.

The problem I had with this episode was: why did Lara call her device the "Eradicator"?! The purpose of what she built was to preserve, not eradicate. It feels like an Easter egg for comics fans that harkens back to the Death of Superman story, but this device doesn't seem to have much, if anything, in common with the Eradicator in the comics that I can recall.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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The first half of tonight's episode was a fun origin story for this version of Superman, fleshing out the montage that opened the series premiere. I really love this version of Martha Kent.

We also got to see key milestones of Kal-El's journey paralleled in Tal-Rho's, only with a darker spin. One of the key differences, of course, is that Jor-El inspired the best in Kal-El while Zeta-Rho brought out the worst in his son.

Whatever process was begun at the end of the episode in Tal-Rho's desert fortress of solitude hints at what may have happened on John Henry Irons's Earth: Perhaps that Kal-El wasn't faking being good before the betrayal; perhaps he really was good, like this Superman, and then the House of Rho stripped him of that goodness.

A key difference on this Earth is that Kal-El had hybrid children, and at least one of the children has superpowers.

I don't know that I bought Sarah throwing herself at Jordan, but I did appreciate that characters being honest and telling the truth actually had a positive outcome, when so many of the Arrowverse shows have been dependent on lies to drive the drama.
'
The show is off for two weeks, and then back on July 13th. There are only four episodes left, and they're still shooting the first season, so it's going to be a real race to the finish. The season finale is currently scheduled for August 17th, so I wouldn't surprised if there are another two weeks of repeats after the new episode on 7/13.
 

David Weicker

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I hate, hate, hate, when they make a good character 'evil'

I don't find these stories interesting. I don't find these stories entertaining.

And generally these characters end up doing something irredeemable, which unless it's walked back through some time-travel stuff, means that the character is forever flawed and never again the character I wanted to watch.

For a character that is introduced as straddling the moral line, its OK. But for a character that is supposed to be good, it is NOT a good story. It doesn't make them more interesting. It ruins them (and the show).


I hope they reverse and undo this.


As for the first three-quarters of the episode, it was great. The Daily Planet scenes did what they intended - captured the Donner/Reeve persona perfectly (even down to the rambling/trailing off dialogue).
 

Garysb

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I am hoping for an unexpected resolution to Superman's situation. I don't want to see the cliché of Clark about to kill his family when love or his true self stops him.

I believe there was supposed to be a crossover with Batwoman this season which wouls have confirmed this show is in the same Universe as the other Arrowverse shows. I think everything that was established in the 2 crossover events Superman and Lois appeared is no longer cannon to the TV series. Lois became pregnant before marrying Clark, had her baby on Argo etc.

Amused that Clark told Lois he was going home to watch Seinfeld reruns as Seinfeld was such a great Superman fan.

 

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