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New Star Wars Trilogy Announced (Rian Johnson)

Discussion in 'Movies' started by SamT, Nov 9, 2017.

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  1. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    At least we’ll understand that it’s just a reaction to a changing business and we can just ignore Twitter that day :)
     
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  2. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
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    I strive to ignore Twitter every day. ;)
     
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  3. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    If there was a “love” button...
     
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  4. JimmyO

    JimmyO Berserker
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    Solo was dramatically impacted by two factors: 1- No one asked for that movie to be made and 2- Solo was impacted by the negative buzz of TLJ.

    TLJ cleared a billion because that's what Star Wars movies that are part of the Skywalker story will absolutely do . Every condition was right for it to do that. It was guaranteed to do big box office, and when there was a lot of negative buzz about what was done to a specific character, how elements that were 'leading somewhere' were summarily just tossed (grats on the surprises for the sake of surprising) it was never going to be stopped to make big box office. Even though these were glaring flaws in the film that really upset a number of people.

    Enter: Rise of Skywalker. Disney's "we're sorry" title to the fanbase, and exit R.J. because Disney can just get another director and not take a chance of having to carry the burden of the sour taste of TLJ.

    For the record I didn't hate TLJ and I'm not a rabid Star Wars fan, and my hopes and dreams were not trampled upon. But I can recognize bad choices when I see them. And I can see Disney's moves to protect themselves from TLJ affecting the franchise going forward.
     
  5. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

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    :thumbsup::):thumbsup:
     
  6. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    I agree with number 1
    I disagree with number 2
     
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  7. Wayne_j

    Wayne_j Cinematographer

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    I would say that it was mostly impacted by nobody asking for SOLO to be made but It probably was impacted somewhat by negative reactions to TLJ. Maybe 15% of the reason or so.
     
  8. Tommy R

    Tommy R Supporting Actor

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    I think it’s just crazy to expect anything to give you a billion dollars, guaranteed. The money Solo made should have been perfectly satisfactory, but they just pour so much money into the budget and then apparently pour the same amount of the budget into marketing. Also, no one may have been asking for Solo, but every casual film fan I’ve spoken to in person say Solo is their favorite of the new Star Wars films.
     
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  9. Message #169 of 203 Oct 10, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
    TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Oh, if I had your wisdom...


    And probably dramatically worsened by having to reshoot so much of the movie.

    I still haven't heard someone say something bad about Solo in the real world. Not that everyone I've talked to has seen it but out of the ones that have, they've all enjoyed it to varying degrees. I can't say that about any SW movie since The Empire Strikes Back.
     
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  10. Wayne_j

    Wayne_j Cinematographer

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    Reshooting the entire movie pushed the budget up to the point where they almost had to gross a billion to turn a profit. It didn't and they lost money on the movie.
     
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  11. Message #171 of 203 Oct 11, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
    Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    It wasn’t the entire film actually. More like 70%.

    And with a production of $275 million it needed as you said close to a billion dollars ($825 million) to break even. Solo lost an estimated $400 million+ worldwide.

    Total Lifetime Grosses
    Domestic: $213,767,512 54.4%
    + Foreign: $179,157,295 45.6%
    = Worldwide: $392,924,807


     
  12. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    One thing in LFL and Disney's favor is that the sales of merchandise generated lots of money. A loss is still a loss but most movies that lose $400 million don't make a boatload of money on toys.
     
  13. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    I do hope they make these films, if for no other reason than I think more Star Wars is better than less, and I think the franchise can support more than one film every 2 years (which seems to be the current thought, once the 3 years between IX and the next one pass). But Johnson is going to remain controversial until he produces a movie that is as accepted by fans as, say, Rogue One or Force Awakens. The thing that many people loved about The Last Jedi - Johnson's subverting of fan expectations - is also one thing that many people hated about it. Today's landscape for movies and TV is one where fan wishes are satisfied, not subverted. Give the fans what they want and they will come -- that seems to be the prevailing wisdom. Which is not to say that's always the best thing artistically, but from a business perspective, it's the most important. Johnson broke that rule, and maybe in Disney's eyes (to quote Ned Beatty in Network) he "must atone."
     
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  14. Tommy R

    Tommy R Supporting Actor

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    I totally agree that that is what the situation is, but my personal feelings are that it’s not a good thing. I’m a huge Star Wars fan, and I felt in no way, shape or form did The Last Jedi subvert any expectations I had. Though I’m a movie goer who just hopes for a great film and not to “expect” something or another.

    It certainly does seem that Rian is expected to “atone”, but I think this also sets a bad precedent. He did his job; wrote a movie, directed a movie, brought it in on time and on budget and it made butt loads of cash. This is certainly something that Disney should value in a filmmaker associated with SW. And giving him a clean slate to make whatever he wants story-wise, the fact that people think he ruined in the Skywalker story is moot in the grand scheme of bringing in more SW films. Rian has proved to be a huge asset that Disney should not quickly toss aside.
     
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  15. Message #175 of 203 Oct 13, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
    Jake Lipson

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    This.

    My guess is that the original plan was for the Johnson trilogy and the Benioff/Weiss trilogy to alternate years, in the same way that the sequel trilogy alternated with Rogue One and Solo. As you noted, Solo's performance changed all that. So Disney is in a position where they ordered multiple trilogies for alternating slots, but they no longer think the theatrical market can bear that much Star Wars. They also bought Fox after Johnson's trilogy was announced, so now the plan is to alternate Avatar (odd years) and Star Wars (even years) rather than alternating sub-franchises of Star Wars. This means that by keeping Johnson and Benioff and Weiss, they've suddenly got more movies than they can use in the immediate future.

    But I still think the same thing I thought before. Whether or not it is her fault, Kennedy has built up a reputation for repeatedly firing directors. Gareth Edwards kept his name on the movie but everyone knows he was effectively sidelined from Rogue One and Tony Gilroy finished it. Lord and Miller were fired when they were almost done. Josh Trank didn't even start his movie. Colin Treverrow spent a long time on various scripts for Episode IX before being shown the door for whatever reason. James Mangold was reported in the trades as being attached to a Boba Fett movie right before Solo opened, and that's not happening now. Stephen Daldry was reported as being attached to the Obi-Wan movie, but he isn't continuing on now that it has been transformed into a Disney+ series. This is now a pattern. Even if you exclude Mangold and Daldry because those were only reported on by the trades, it's still a pattern.

    The two directors Kathleen Kennedy has been able to work with on Star Wars without there being a major issue derailing production are J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson. Also, she has had nothing but glowing praise for Johnson, whose film apparently sailed through the Lucasfilm production process that so many other filmmakers have found to be a difficult space in which to work. Regardless of the divisive reaction among fans, we know that Kathleen Kennedy is very proud of how The Last Jedi turned out. She knew what was in the script that she greenlit and she got exactly the movie she asked for. It was well-received by critics, and despite the talk of divisiveness, it made a lot of money. At the time of its release, it was the highest-grossing film of any kind since The Force Awakens. Rian Johnson has absolutely nothing to atone for in the eyes of Disney. The Last Jedi checked all the boxes.

    The pattern of directors parting ways with Star Wars projects under Kennedy has almost certainly not gone unnoticed by members of the creative community in Hollywood. Given this pattern, it's very possible that other talented filmmakers might be reluctant to work at Lucasfilm for fear of not being able to finish their film the way they want. I think it was Taika Waititi, but am not sure, who was asked over Twitter if he would want to direct a Star Wars film, and he said something to the effect of "No, I like to complete my films." Again, I don't have the exact tweet handy so I want to make it totally clear that I am paraphrasing from memory and could be not entirely accurate, but I think it was something like that. Waititi is somebody who has worked extremely well for Disney with Thor Ragnarok at Marvel; he's about to do another one of those, and Fox Searchlight, which is now under Disney's roof, is about to release his movie Jojo Rabbit. He is clearly someone who Disney likes and wants to keep around, and he's out there saying, essentially, that he's not interested in doing a Star Wars movie because of all the production problems the recent ones have had. He's probably not the only director who feels that way.

    So if you've already alienated some potentially interesting filmmakers from working under the Lucasfilm banner, what kind of message does it send to the creative community if Kennedy were to fire one of the only two filmmakers who has brought in a film from start to finish that she was totally happy with? That's like putting up a big neon sign at Skywalker Ranch that says "DON'T COME WORK WITH US."

    That, I think, would be detrimental to the long-term health of Lucasfilm, because how would they attract interesting new filmmakers that way? They can't just rely on J.J. for everything.

    If I were Kathleen Kennedy, I would have a meeting with Johnson and Benioff and Weiss and figure out if there's any common ground between them creatively. See if you could get them to work together and combine their trilogies into one thing. That way, they keep everyone on board that they announced deals with without wasting anybody's time or making anybody wait around to start their series while the other one runs its course. Of course, that depends on the three of them wanting to work together, and runs the risk of one or the other choosing to walk out if they say no. But that is what I would try.
     
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  16. Jeff Adkins

    Jeff Adkins Cinematographer

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    I'm curious if she was also doing this before Lucasfilm, or if it's just been the last few years. The only issue I can think of previously was Tobe Hooper on Poltergeist. Of course he wasn't fired, but there's all those stories that suggest that there were problems.
     
  17. Wayne_j

    Wayne_j Cinematographer

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    She spent most of her career producing Spielberg. She wasn't ever going to fire him.
     
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  18. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Correct. Also, Spielberg almost certainly wouldn't give any producer reason to fire him even if they would.
     
  19. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I don't think that's really a comparable situation though because even if someone believes that Spielberg directed every frame of Poltergeist, I think it's very safe to say that was Spielberg's call and not Kennedy's.
     
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  20. questrider

    questrider Supporting Actor
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    Especially considering that Kennedy was only an associate producer on Poltergeist and it was her first producer film credit.

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005086

    Before that she was Spielberg's executive assistant (although she did get an "Associate to Mr. Spielberg" credit on Raiders of the Lost Ark). Frank Marshall and Spielberg himself were producers on Poltergeist.
     
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