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Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Nelson Au, Aug 4, 2018.
Stewart is indeed looking old. I'm glad they had the opportunity to make this series now.
Finally watched episode 1 and you guys were right, this was a fantastic pilot. This is the show that should have launched CBS All Access. Would have probably earned more good will from Trek fans and then do something like Discovery second.
Can’t wait to see where this goes, wish I could binge it all right now. Anyone know how many episodes will be in this season?
I thought I read somewhere that Picard’s age is 90 in this series. But that would make him 70-ish in Nemesis. Seems too old. I thought Stewart is coming off pretty well as an older Picard, his voice is what is weaker though.
Chris, what I understand is that there are 10 episodes for this season of Picard
No surprise there. Picard was a decade or so older than Patrick Stewart in the series -- he was born in 2305, so he was 59 when TNG began, 74 in Star Trek: Nemesis. So if we're 20 years later, then of course he'd be 94. Still, Picard's age here would only be a bit over 2/3 of McCoy's age in "Farpoint."
And I think McCoy's extremely-advanced age was meant to be exceptional. His irritation at having his age brought up in the TNG premiere suggests that people do often make a big deal out of it, and he's tired of that. I mean, remember, later that same year in "Too Short a Season," Admiral Jameson was portrayed as decrepit at age 85.
Even much later in DS9, when Dax said she expected O'Brien to die peacefully in bed at 140, she clearly meant to say that he'd have a good long life and come close to the maximum plausible life-expectancy for a human. That's consistent with McCoy's age of 137 being pretty near the upper limit.
I look at Jameson being only 85 and ancient as a side effect of his disease, and 60 being the new middle age/40 in TNG time.
I think they’re aging Stewart up a tiny bit. Not as much as they did for Logan but not nothing either.
I can buy the idea that by the 23rd and 24th century, the average human life span can be over 100 and the retirement age would be higher given better healthcare and medical advancements and better nutrition and fitness.
Exactly. Given medical advances over the next few centuries, and given that smoking and drug abuse both appear to be nonexistent, it makes sense that life expectancy would have increased significantly. If the maximum lifespan is around 140, then life expectancy would probably be around 91. Given that, Picard would be considered old but not ancient in 2399 -- probably the equivalent of someone in their late seventies in 2019.
I wish they were a tiny bit cheaper because I love the bottle and label designs:
Someone please tell me I can’t spend $110 for two bottles of wine I’ll never drink.
I don’t usually fall for marketing.
But this is one of the more elegant product tie-ins.
Problem with all other Trek toys is just that. They’re toys. The phasers don’t actually work. The wine will work.
And after you drink the wine, the phasers will appear to work. Win/Win.
Any other wine will work just as well...
I might be giving away a great idea, but I’m sure someone can and will create a wine label that is a replica of the Chateau Picard label that you can apply to a similar if not same bottles they are using.
Maybe I can give it a try. I’m sure the prop replica people have done it.
Oh I’m sure. I think I’ve even seen labels made by fans on craft sites online.
But there is a real life Chateau Picard in France that really has been there for generations; this wine is from there, so it’s slightly more special than any old store bottle.
Maybe @Josh Steinberg has inspired me, or maybe I've just been jonesing for a fix to hold me over until Thursday, but I've found myself watching more "Trek" than I have since probably the nineties since watching the series premiere of "Picard".
After watching the TNG series finale, I revisited "Q Who" and was reintroduced to the Borg. Then, over the weekend, I watched "Relics" and saw Montgomery Scott make his debut in the 24th century. Tonight I put on Star Trek: Generations -- another one that mixed characters from different time periods.
This time around, it reminded me a lot of the 1996 "Doctor Who" TV movie, in that it's an interesting transitional moment for the franchise, with a foot in both the past and the future. Not just in the obvious torch passing from the original series crew to the TNG crew, but also in terms of the actual production of "Trek".
Paramount was hot to trot to get this in theaters in order to capitalize on the buzz and publicity of TNG's series finale, and the rush job shows throughout the movie. The line between TV Trek and Feature Film Trek has probably never blurred as much as it did for Generations. The use of the TNG sets I actually found admirable, as I hate it when things jump to the big screen and change to have bigger scope without explanation and without the characters even noticing. But the slapdash nature of the production is evident in really basic things, like the fact that the 24th century Starfleet uniforms are a hodge podge between the TNG uniforms and the DS9/Voyager uniforms.
The "humor" driven by Data's personality chip lands with a major thud for me, much like the humor involving C3P0 in the Star Wars prequels.
And the film is in desperate need of a real final act. Everything about the final confrontation with Soran screams, "We ran out of money and time." There are episodes of TNG with more epic set pieces that this one has, a few gang planks thrown up in the desert somewhere. And killing off one of the most iconic characters in the franchise in such an underwhelming way was a travesty.
That being said, there was a lot I appreciated about the movie more this time. The emotional through line is pretty strong, with both captains of the Enterprise forced to grapple with their own mortality and the consequences of putting their duty ahead of their personal lives. In that respect, it resonated a lot more with the themes of "PIcard" than I'd expected going into it.
While James Kirk gets a shitty death, the character up until that point is written beautifully in his twilight years, and William Shatner is really terrific. Given the Kirk's personality, and given Shatner's ego, I could have easily seen a scenario where the passing of the torch between captains was done begrudgingly, with some resentment. But if there was any, it certainly doesn't show on screen. The opening sequence of the Enterprise-B allows Shatner to play those feelings of not being the guy sitting in the captain's chair anymore, but not in selfish or self-centered way. Instead, there's just the melancholy passage of time.
And it would have been easy to make the new captain, played by the nervous friend from Ferris Bueller, as an incompetent ass. But the movie avoids that, portraying him as a bit green and unprepared for the situation but ultimately willing to do the right thing and set aside his own ego for the greater good. And in the process, the movie gives Kirk a hero's death much more effective than the character's actual death at the end of the movie.
Whoopi Goldberg has also never been better as Guinan. The character's always been mysterious, to the point at times of treading dangerously close to the magical Negro stereotype. But in Generations she is both more mysterious than ever and more human than ever. We've been told she's very long-lived, but here we feel the years, as she bridges the two eras of "Trek". But being pulled out of the Nexus by the Enterprise-B clearly cost her something, and Whoopi plays that sense of loss, and the resignation that life now is just a bit more drab than it was before, so well. Her acceptance of her situation also provides a striking contrast to Soran's fiery genocidal fervor.
There's also the bridging of two eras of visual effects, combining new CG effects with tried and true miniature work. The Enterprise-B, in particular, looks like a slightly jazzed up version of the USS Excelsior from The Search for Spock. While First Contact would plunge boldly into the modern era of blockbuster filmmaking, there are moments in Generations that feel closer to the filmmaking of the OG Star Trek movies from the seventies and eighties.
Josh, I did not fully read the description of the wine. I saw one sentence that mentioned that it’s from Sonoma, Northern California. And made with toasty American oak. Right up the road from my neighborhood. But I see there is a Zinfandel that’s a separate product made in Sonoma. So that is cool that Chateau Picard is from a well established winery in Bordeaux France.
Life is short, if you want to indulge in some Chateau Picard, it’s up to you.
I myself prefer Romulan Ale over wine. But it is illegal, so....
I’ve been revisiting (and in many cases watching for the first time) the extensive bonus features on the TNG Blu-rays. One of the most interesting features was a writers room discussion, and Ron Moore and Brannon Braga are among the participants (they wrote both the TNG finale and Generations). They described writing Generations as being a difficult and uncertain process where they were trying to figure it out the whole time over months (it was started before the last season began). They didn’t expect to be asked to write the finale, but when they got that call, they said it ended up only being a matter of days and flowing right out of them.
I like so much of what’s in Generations. I’m a big fan of both eras, but still, I kinda wish it had just been a TNG movie just to have given those characters more room to breathe. But even having to share screen time, I was glad that they decided to bring some closure to some open TNG plot lines. I love the Data stuff. And I completely agree that it was great that they used the TV Enterprise instead of an unexplained retrofit for a theatrical screen.
I remember that my mom hated food dyes when I was a kid but that I’d sneak green when I could to make “Romulan ale” sometimes. I think I put it into white grape juice.