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New Smart TV With ARC - Older Reciever With Only HDMI Out (1 Viewer)

ENIGMACODE

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Hi Gang

Would I still need to use 'Optical Audio' out from a Smart TV to an older Yamaha reciever (no ARC), if I ran an HDMI cable from the Smart TV ARC port back to the 'HDMI Out' of the reciever?

Although the reciever was produced in 2009-2010, (approx. same year as ARC), there is no ARC port (only HDMI Out).

I just located this online so apparently there is no benefit in using the ARC port on the newer TV if the reciever doesn't have a matching ARC port:

To take advantage of HDMI ARC, you’ll need a television and audio processor (AV receiver or soundbar) with matching ARC-enabled HDMI sockets.

Wonder if an ARC adapter might help? Although I see there could be a disadvantage in that it might be necessary to reduce picture resolution to 1080 in order to make it work?

ARC Adapter

Thank You!
 
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John Dirk

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All things being considered this sounds like a perfect application for a soundbar. Most modern TV's will see it as a receiver and output to it without the need for ARC.
 

ENIGMACODE

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Hi John

Thanx for your comment ... :)

As indicated I'm using an older Yamaha Reciever (2009-2010). The reciever has #3 HDMI ports, #1 HDMI Output Port (along with other typical ports) like optical etc ...

So again strickly using my current equipment, (unless of course I buy a new reciever with ARC), I'm gonna assume the TV ARC port is basically useless here ...

Thank You .....
 

John Dirk

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Hi John

Thanx for your comment ... :)

As indicated I'm using an older Yamaha Reciever (2009-2010). The reciever has #3 HDMI ports, #1 HDMI Output Port (along with other typical ports) like optical etc ...

So again strickly using my current equipment, (unless of course I buy a new reciever with ARC), I'm gonna assume the TV ARC port is basically useless here ...

Thank You .....
There's no such thing as an ARC port. ARC is simply a protocol supported in HDMI versions 1.4 and later.
 

ENIGMACODE

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"There's no such thing as an ARC port"

Thanx but we're getting away from the question-statement. The newer style TV's have HDMI ports clearly labeled 'HDMI ARC'

As far as I can tell (again as stated); To take advantage of HDMI ARC, you’ll need a television and audio processor (AV receiver or soundbar) with matching ARC-enabled HDMI sockets.

So again strickly using my current equipment, (unless of course I buy a new reciever with ARC), I'm gonna assume the TV's HDMI ARC is basically useless here ...
 

Lord Dalek

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ARC is really only necessary for internal streaming apps on your tv or if your planning to view content on external devices that require HDCP 2.2 and said receiver isn't compatible.

Either way your old V467 isn't going to cut the mustard in the 4k era due to copy protection. Get rid of it. Its a dinosaur
 

JohnRice

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"There's no such thing as an ARC port"

Thanx but we're getting away from the question-statement. The newer style TV's have HDMI ports clearly labeled 'HDMI ARC'

As far as I can tell (again as stated); To take advantage of HDMI ARC, you’ll need a television and audio processor (AV receiver or soundbar) with matching ARC-enabled HDMI sockets.

So again strickly using my current equipment, (unless of course I buy a new reciever with ARC), I'm gonna assume the TV's HDMI ARC is basically useless here ...
The real issue is that most of the time ARC is a pain in the ass. It works far less often than it should. For streaming, you're really better off with an external streaming device, which can be had for as little as $30, and if you're using the TV's internal tuner, there is no real-world benefit to ARC over an optical cable. Plus, the optical option works, every time.

Then... there are other issues of compatibility, such as Joel mentioned.

My general recommendation is to forget ARC even exists. It's not worth the trouble in most cases.
 

kalm_traveler

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The real issue is that most of the time ARC is a pain in the ass. It works far less often than it should. For streaming, you're really better off with an external streaming device, which can be had for as little as $30, and if you're using the TV's internal tuner, there is no real-world benefit to ARC over an optical cable. Plus, the optical option works, every time.

Then... there are other issues of compatibility, such as Joel mentioned.

My general recommendation is to forget ARC even exists. It's not worth the trouble in most cases.
pardon the question John, but I'm confused by your statement I bolded here. As far as I understand, if you're using the TV's built-in streaming apps, ARC is the only way to get more than stereo 2-channel sound to come out from the TV into a receiver.

I've only used this with two Samsung TVs, the old 2019 model and my new 2021 model but both worked properly with ARC passing a multichannel audio signal to both my old Yamaha RX-A1030 and the newer RX-A3080.

If one were to use the TV's optical audio output instead of HDMI ARC, one would be limited to stereo sound only so if ARC is an option I'm not sure why one wouldn't want to use it?
 

Lord Dalek

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pardon the question John, but I'm confused by your statement I bolded here. As far as I understand, if you're using the TV's built-in streaming apps, ARC is the only way to get more than stereo 2-channel sound to come out from the TV into a receiver.

I've only used this with two Samsung TVs, the old 2019 model and my new 2021 model but both worked properly with ARC passing a multichannel audio signal to both my old Yamaha RX-A1030 and the newer RX-A3080.

If one were to use the TV's optical audio output instead of HDMI ARC, one would be limited to stereo sound only so if ARC is an option I'm not sure why one wouldn't want to use it?
Depends. Some tvs offer 5.1 over optical, some don't. In any case, external devices like satellite boxes are PCM ONLY over optical.
 

JohnRice

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pardon the question John, but I'm confused by your statement I bolded here. As far as I understand, if you're using the TV's built-in streaming apps, ARC is the only way to get more than stereo 2-channel sound to come out from the TV into a receiver.

I've only used this with two Samsung TVs, the old 2019 model and my new 2021 model but both worked properly with ARC passing a multichannel audio signal to both my old Yamaha RX-A1030 and the newer RX-A3080.

If one were to use the TV's optical audio output instead of HDMI ARC, one would be limited to stereo sound only so if ARC is an option I'm not sure why one wouldn't want to use it?
Optical will always provide 5.1 from the TV’s internal apps and tuner. It often only provides two channel pass-through from hdmi inputs.
 

kalm_traveler

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Optical will always provide 5.1 from the TV’s internal apps and tuner. It often only provides two channel pass-through from hdmi inputs.
hmm have things changed over the last few years? Last I recall, to get more than stereo over optical, you needed to use an encoder for Dolby Digital Live or DTS-Connect?

As mentioned, with my most recent 2 Samsung TVs, connecting their HDMI ARC port to the receiver is giving me proper multichannel as long as the source has it (tested with many various programs in the Amazon Prime app at least).
 

JohnRice

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hmm have things changed over the last few years? Last I recall, to get more than stereo over optical, you needed to use an encoder for Dolby Digital Live or DTS-Connect?

As mentioned, with my most recent 2 Samsung TVs, connecting their HDMI ARC port to the receiver is giving me proper multichannel as long as the source has it (tested with many various programs in the Amazon Prime app at least).
Nothing has changed. It has always been this way. Read the distinction again. Optical has always provided 5.1 from the internal apps and tuner. Of course, that's as long as the source is 5.1. It's hdmi pass-through that typically is only two channel on optical, but some TVs also pass-through 5.1. I've been using internal antennas for almost 20 years, since I got rid of cable, and every single TV has put out 5.1 all that time. It's still what I use today for broadcast TV.
 

kalm_traveler

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Nothing has changed. It has always been this way. Read the distinction again. Optical has always provided 5.1 from the internal apps and tuner. Of course, that's as long as the source is 5.1. It's hdmi pass-through that typically is only two channel on optical, but some TVs also pass-through 5.1. I've been using internal antennas for almost 20 years, since I got rid of cable, and every single TV has put out 5.1 all that time. It's still what I use today for broadcast TV.
ah you're right, it looks like most sets can do DDL over optical, and some can even do DTS. I must be living in the dark ages :eek:

 

John Dirk

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"There's no such thing as an ARC port"

Thanx but we're getting away from the question-statement. The newer style TV's have HDMI ports clearly labeled 'HDMI ARC'

As far as I can tell (again as stated); To take advantage of HDMI ARC, you’ll need a television and audio processor (AV receiver or soundbar) with matching ARC-enabled HDMI sockets.

So again strickly using my current equipment, (unless of course I buy a new reciever with ARC), I'm gonna assume the TV's HDMI ARC is basically useless here ...
My fault. You're pretty much correct. As others have advised, forget about ARC and consider replacing the receiver as it will continue to be the weak link in your system until you do.
 

JohnRice

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ah you're right, it looks like most sets can do DDL over optical, and some can even do DTS. I must be living in the dark ages :eek:

To clarify again, pass-through is a different thing. Digital TVs have always sent 5.1 when available from internal sources such as the broadcast tuner and internal apps. Pass-through refers to what it does to stuff that comes in through hdmi. At first, TVs all sent out two channel only. These days a lot if not most pass through 5.1.
 

kalm_traveler

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To clarify again, pass-through is a different thing. Digital TVs have always sent 5.1 when available from internal sources such as the broadcast tuner and internal apps. Pass-through refers to what it does to stuff that comes in through hdmi. At first, TVs all sent out two channel only. These days a lot if not most pass through 5.1.
Yes, that is what the link I provided confirmed (for me mostly). I am aware of what pass-through means.

To clarify, I was unaware that most/all sets had built-in Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect functionality. Both of those are compression technologies allowing a 5.1 signal to be transmitted over Toslink/optical audio.

I've never had a receiver without ARC while also owning a TV without ARC at the same time (when I got my first ARC-capable TV I also had upgraded the receiver to an ARC-capable receiver), and all I had read was about people not always being able to get 5.1 passed through from an HDMI source.

My confusion mainly stemmed from the fact that the 'standard' digital audio signal originally created for use with Toslink or digital coaxial (they carry what is effectively the same data stream) was only 2 channel and I believe 44.1khz, but much later on Dolby and DTS both created their own compression methods by which to compress a 5.1 channel source and be able to pipe it over this Toslink/optical connection with Dolby Digital or DTS (don't quote me but I believe DTS had slightly higher bandwidth).

On the PC end of things, most built-in sound chips on motherboards don't have this functionality enabled (other than pass-through) because the manufacturers didn't want to pay Dolby or DTS the licensing fee to use either technology - this combined with what I'd read almost a decade ago about folks not reliably being able to get 5.1 passed through from HDMI in to optical out on their TV sets is where I was confused.

Hope that clears things up.
 

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