New SACD player from Denon: DCD-SA10!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by KeithH, Nov 1, 2002.

  1. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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  2. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Note that 350,000 Japanese Yen translates to about $2864 US Dollars. Could this unit be competition for the Sony SCD-XA777ES and Marantz SA-14? I wonder if Denon will offer lower-priced models.

    The big question I have is whether the Denon unit will perform direct DSD-to-analog conversion (i.e., not DSD-to-PCM-to-analog). I am guessing that a US version, should it be made available, will be black.
     
  3. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Here is a picture:
    [c][​IMG][/c]
    The remote looks a bit dull, but that is typical of Denon, in my opinion. Also, I feel the 'SA10 has the looks (and price) of the DVD-9000. I'm glad to see that Denon left DVD capability out of the 'SA10.
     
  4. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Keith,
    Denon certainly through a curve with this one, as I had been expecting a universal player from them first - which is likely still coming. To release a three grand SACD only player in the American market is probably quite a gamble now, especially since Sony themselves seem to be phasing out their SACD only players only to replace them with lower line DVD video players and lame integrated receivers for more Joe six-pack appeal[​IMG] . I am personally waiting to see what Denon does with their Universal players, as this is probably where the real market will be.
    Reg
     
  5. KevinYS

    KevinYS Extra

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    I don't know Japanese, but by using the translater, this is what it says.


    Item name Item turn Desired retail price (classified by tax) Sale time
    CD/SACD player DCD-SA10-N 350,000 Yen December first third

    The corporation ƒfƒmƒ“ (the DENON), technology of the pure audio which is cultivated this time over long time, it makes know-how concentrate, is thorough the sound quality of CD playback and overtakes, furthermore, it sells the DCD-SA10-N which corresponds to the SACD playback of multichannel.

    The DCD-SA10-N forms the CD section and the SACD section in the owner use circuit which respectively completely it separates & becomes independent. The optical pickup and the laser the decoding circuit which recovers, furthermore, have loaded the servo circuit in order to grasp the signal which of course, is cut in the disk optimumly and the signal of the CD/SACD onto exclusive use respectively to the audio circuit.
    In addition, being thorough the interference of each circuit of the CD section and the SACD section, in order to hold down, the audio circuit makes the respective another baseplate unit, has become the constitution which pulls out the feature of the CD and the SACD to the maximum.

    The DENON which continues to adhere to the treble quality playback of pure audio, the CD/SACD player DCD-SA10-N who pursues the treble quality playback which does not have compromise. One one Tsuga of pure audio technology of the DENON which is thrown to the every nook and cranny, charm of the CD and the SACD is pulled out to the maximum.

    The main merit of DCD-SA10-N

    * Frees each circuit of the CD/SACD the treble quality design which

    From the laser of the pickup until servo IC, the CD/SACD it loads the private circuit respectively. Concerning the audio circuit furthermore by the fact that it makes each private circuit constitution of the CD and the SACD which are made another baseplate from the baseplate itself, the highest sound quality was pursued in respectively. The circuit which is optimum to CD/SACD each one where circuit constitution of the latter part from the D/A converter playback frequency zone is different because of this is designed. In addition, also the audio output terminal made the respective independent * private terminal, being thorough the interference from influence and the respective circuit with signal change, removed.

    * Furthermore the analog corrugated reappearance technical AL24 Processing Plus which evolved loading

    In playback system of the CD, the former AL24 Processing as for algorithm it throws the AL24 Processing plus which it developed as the IC of operational possibility, compared to high accuracy * high reliability luxuriously with the 192kHz which corresponds to the DVD-AUDIO without modifying. The liberal transaction of operation whose reliability is higher became possible. As for the efficiency, the 16bit data of the CD in clue high bit conversion and 8 time over sampling which expand the data (rise converting of the 44.1kHzx8=352.8kHz) as for corresponding to also high sampling conversion of course to the 24bit, the quantize distortion furthermore decrease. In addition, with the pulse data, it expands pass band and it makes the reappearance of the impulse response which does not have the wringing possible, it succeeds the ecad digital filter which variable does cutoff zone automatically. Music it went out and the instant which keeps and the instant et cetera which starts from silent, it raised the music playback ability of the level playback time low.

    * High accuracy multiple bit system 24bit D/A converter loading

    In CD playback system, in order faithfully the D/A to convert the ƒnƒCƒNƒIƒŠƒeƒBƒf[ƒ^ of the 24bit * high sampling which is obtained by the AL24 Processing Plus, the multiple bit system 24bit D/A converter is adopted. The multiple bit system 24bit D/A converter power source voltage (electric current) becomes difficult to receive the influence with fluctuation, in addition, because quantize distortion level inside zone it is fixed not to relate to frequency, clearing whose noise is little sound playback possible. Furthermore this D/A converter by the fact that it makes the 4DAC constitution which is used with differential operation 2 at a time, zero cross distortion are lost in principle in every one channel, Lamda S.L.C. Also going hand in hand, it actualizes the sound playback which has the transparent impression to the very little signal. It expresses to real even to the delicate nuance of music.

    * D/A converter for SACD of industry highest level loading

    Those where the DSD which is signal system of the SACD (the Direct Stream Digital) record * it tries it re-will raise the output signal itself of the Delta Sigma modulator when recording in the disk to reappear even to between the air on of sound recording site from sound recording with quite the simple transmission system which does not need the data conversion with halfway process to record * playback to the disk, are idea. The D/A converter which is loaded with the DCD-SA10-N is the D/A converter which reproduces this idea faithfully, internal constitution of the D/A converter the advanced * current * segment (the D/A converter) in the latter part pure voice response of according to idea of the DSD is possible with quite the simple constitution which does not have the circuit where the halfway digital signal is calculated with only the pure * analog * FIR filter, altogether.
    As for playback of the SACD, output of the largest 5.1ch which corresponds to multichannel playback is possible.
    Furthermore, with the front ch you use the D/A converter which is proud of the specifications of this industry highest level with monaural mode, arrange the private differential output system D/A converter respectively. It has made the constitution which is suitable to the 4DAC constitution of the CD section. The highest sound quality is offered, the D/A converter which is identical with the front channel is loaded, in the time of multichannel playback even to each of the rear / center /LFE. In addition, the treble quality part which is cultivated with development of the CD player concerning the peripheral circuit is adopted, furthermore the analog circuit is the treble quality design which the DENON proposes as a pure audio.

    * Including the digital section and the analog section, each block thoroughness separation

    Including the digital section and the analog section, the power source * CD audio circuit * SACD audio circuit * indicatory respective circuit baseplate separate conversion. You hold down interference of each one to minimum, are thorough sound quality deterioration and have prevented. Furthermore as digital system is collected to the compact, it makes the sealed structure which is covered with the copper plated steel sheet, holds down also the influence to sound of the electromagnetic wave.

    * It is thorough the vibration-proof design which

    - E.g., the trance case, the molding is adopted for the trance base, vibration-proof characteristic improvement

    Internal loss conveyed the vibration to the case which receives trance and the base which installs those largely and adopted the ‚Ã leprosy aluminum sand mold molding, being thorough the influence to the sound quality with the vibration from the trance section which is source of vibration held down and was packed. In addition, way loads digital type analog type separate trance, cancels the leakage flux, the respective trance symmetrically arrangement. The influence which is given to the other circuit and the like is held down to minimum. Furthermore the sintering combination gold made large-sized insulator which sticks the mechanic cover and vibrating hold down the influence of the vibration to the circuit from adoption of the center mechanic mount whose structural stability is high and drive mechanism absorber, the 15mm thick front panel, you adopt the structural technology of the bottom cover of triple structure, and the top cover et cetera of dual structure being thorough the deterioration of the sound with the vibration from inside & outside, it removes you have made the vibration-proof structure which is superior. In addition, the high rigid chassis adopts copper plating, prevents also the interference of high frequency noise.

    - Advanced hybrid structure S.V.H. Loader

    The tray while playing back when they are unnecessary ones, returns to starting point, adopts the paint where the vibration-proof characteristic which combines the protein to the tray itself is high, the inside of playing back holds down influence to the sound quality of the tray which is unnecessary ones to minimum with plate installing and the like of the tray lower part which prevents the delicate deformation of the light weight * high rigid aluminum die-cast shaft bearing and the tray which are superior in damping characteristic.

    * New development advanced mechanism adoption


    It is necessary with the SACD to become approximately half very little pit of the CD, in addition, to trace turning at full speed of 3 times that or more the CD accurately. The advanced mechanism which improves reliability and durability new development. S.V.H. Going hand in hand with the vibration-proof characteristic where the loader is superior, quite high accuracy it pursues the reading of the signal.

    * The treble quality conversion which it is thorough actualization

    You adhere to playing back channel * stereo 2 with the highest sound quality, have persisted in simple structure. Over part point point careful selection e.g., it starts in adoption of the large-sized pin jack and adopts the highest sound quality part. In addition, being able to meet, you adhered to treble quality playback thoroughly e.g., it erases the headphone circuit which becomes load of the output section.



    The main specification of DCD-SA10-N


    Super audio CD CD
    [ Audio quality ]
    < Analog output >
    * Channel
    * Playback frequency range
    * Playback frequency characteristic
    * SN ratio
    * Dynamic range
    * Harmonic distortion factor
    * Wow and flutter
    * Output level
    < Digital output >
    * COAXIAL
    * OPTICAL
    * Luminous wave length

    Channel 6 (maximum)
    2hz - 100kHz
    2hz - 50kHz (-3dB)
    118dB (audible zone)
    107dB (audible zone)
    0.0008% (1kHz ¤ audible zone)
    Or less of measurement limit
    2.0V (10k Omega)

    -
    -
    -

    Channel 2
    2hz - 20kHz
    2hz - 20kHz
    118dB
    100dB
    0.0017% (1kHz)
    Or less of measurement limit
    2.0V (10k Omega)

    0.5vp-p/75 Omega
    -15 - -21dbm
    660nm
    [ Optical reading system ]
    * Laser
    * Wave length
    AlGaAs
    650nm
    AlGaAs
    780nm
    * Signal system
    * Sampling frequency 1 bit DSD
    2.822mHz 16 bits * linear PCM
    44.1kHz

    - Electric power consumption / 30W

    - External size / W434~H135~D345mm

    - Mass / 15.7kg
     
  6. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie said:

     
  7. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Keith,
    Jeff Talmadge revealed over at the AVS forum yesterday that this model WILL NOT be available in the USA[​IMG]. The good news is that he said that they will release TWO new DVD-A/SACD universal players next year and that the first one will be announced at Cedia in January. He said that it WILL NOT be the flagship model, meaning, it probably won't have the build quality of the Denon 3800 or 9000. The proposed flagship model which will likely be similar to the 9000 won't be out until later in the year. I am excited, but I hope their new player won't simply be a DVD-1600 with SACD enabled, but that it falls somewhere between the 1600 and 3800 with better DAC'S, redbook upsampling, bass management/time alignment, and yes....a coaxial plug as well as the next generation F-chip for video. If it has these things it should be a winner. Denon will definitely have to give the Pioneer 45a, Philips 963sa, and the new Onkyo and Yamaha Universal players a run for their money. I wonder what the MSRP will be on this one come January?
    Reg
     
  8. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie, this is very disappointing news all around. So, what the h$ll is Denon thinking? Do they really feel that a flagship SACD player will not sell in the US? This is the US after all. [​IMG] They go ahead and release a flagship DVD-Audio player and then proceed to release two universal players, neither of which will be flagship products. I guess Denon has decided to abandon the high-end market in the US. Sorry, but this just sucks. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  9. Joe Cole

    Joe Cole Second Unit

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    Keith why are you holding back[​IMG] ?
    You are correct this doesn't make a lot of sense for Denon to do this.
    Maybe they will shap out of it.
     
  10. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Who actually owns Denon these days anyway? I heard recently some "investment bankers" did; that doesn't sound good [​IMG] .
    LJ
     
  11. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Joe,
    Sorry if I sent a mixed message. I am not pleased with Denon's plans for the US market. [​IMG]
    Lance,
    You may be right. I know that Marantz is now part of Denon, but I do not know if Denon is on its own or not.
     
  12. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Isn't Denon still owned by Nippon Columbia?
    Said to be the oldest Japanese audio company.
     
  13. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Keith,

    My understanding is Denon is still on its own in regards to its own product. We'll have to wait and see what Denon's Universal player is like, but we must remember that anything with a MSRP over 300.00 these days will not have much appeal to J6P. I doubt this Universal player will be priced under 700.00 so it will be out of reach of the mass market for most consumers, expecially since they can care less about DVD-A or SACD. Hopefully the forthcoming 963 -eventhough it isn't a universal player, will set a new standard for players in the 500.00 price bracket and Denon will take some notes and not simply offer us a rebadged Panny with SACD capability. I'm sure if someone wants the SA10 enough, they may be able to have one shipped from Japan somehow. I too am disappointed in the decision to not release it here in the States, perhaps if those interested in acquiring the SA10 e-mails Jeff enough, they might reconsider.

    Reg

    btw, I love my DVD-1600, but if this forthcoming Universal player is anything build/spec wise like the Philips 963, I will pick up the Denon Universal player and relegate the 1600 to bedroom status. As nice as the 1600 is, its operation feels very mass market despite its very good audio quality.
     
  14. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie, since Denon is not going to make a flagship universal player to replace the DVD-9000, I am wondering if they will rebadge someone else's $1000-or-so universal player. It wouldn't surprise me if they did. They rebadged the Technics DVD-A10 in developing the DVD-3300 and rebadged the Panasonic DVD-RP56 in developing the DVD-1600. I know that Denon makes good products, but I just don't like how they do things. I don't like all the rebadging, and then when they developed DVD-3800 from scratch, they released it with the chroma bug. The $500 '1600 has no chroma bug, but the $1200 '3800 has or had it. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    I agree Keith.

    First and foremost, the products that have impressed me the most from Denon have been their outstanding receivers. Their foray into DVD has been quite hit or miss to date, and I hope they get it together. Make no mistake, the 3800 and 9000 are OUTSTANDING feats of engineering from what I've seen and heard, but they have been plagued with serious QC problems - not befitting players in their price bracket. I too hate rebadging, as you feel that you have a dummy product of some sort. Also, quality suffers, hence we get the 500.00 DVD-1600 with no coaxial plug or gold tipped connections but the kind now found on 100.00 dvd players. I mean, would it have cost Denon so much to have added these things to an already existing player? Perhaps someone who reads this thread can explain the economics of this. I will post in the AVS forum and try to find out from Talmadge if the forthcoming universal player will be a rebadged product. Regardless Cedia is now less than two months away so we'll know soon enough.
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Reggie, excellent post. I agree that Denon's strength is their receivers. That is not to say that their DVD players are garbage. Denon makes good DVD players for the most part, but I agree that they have been hit or miss. The '3800 and '9000 are sweet machines, but the QC issues are disconcerting. Also, I still don't like the fact that Denon went ahead and released these machines knowing that they had the chroma bug and then came out with a firmware upgrade later on. Denon should have gotten it right before releasing these high-end players.
    You obviously know my position on the shortcomings of the '1600 given the $500 price tag. It is a great machine, but it is lacking in some key areas for the money, in my opinion. Anyway, I am eager to see what Denon and all the other companies, especially Sony, have to show at CEDIA. Wouldn't it be something if Sony had some new non-DVD SACD players to show? [​IMG]
     
  17. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Keith,

     
  18. ReggieW

    ReggieW Screenwriter

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    Keith,

    It will be interesting to see what Sony introduces at Cedia in terms of SACD product....I am not holding my breath though given Sony's shaby support of SACD capable players the past year. If the forthcoming Denon Universal player is a rebadge, I will probably pass on it out of sheer principle - especially if they appear to skimp on basic features in its price bracket, and go with another brand this tie around instead.

    Reg
     
  19. John Geelan

    John Geelan Screenwriter

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    Denon is solid with A/V Recievers.

    I've owned 2 so far (my current is the workhorse 3300 that was the audio bargain of the year a few years ago).

    Haven't taken the plunge with their DVD players yet (opted for the Panasonic RP91, also the video bargain of the year, 2 years ago).

    I'm one who wishes Denon could make a solid SACD/DVDA player that is solid in the Video department at a reasonable cost ($1K).
     
  20. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    John Kotches, I understand the issues that Denon faced in releasing the '3800 and '9000. However, I think they would have been better served delaying the release. These are high-end products, and most people who buy them, know what the potential performance issues are. Not only that, but the typical buyer of a $1200 or $3500 player has high expectations for performance, obviously. Denon could have issued a statement to the effect that a delay was necessary to work out some "final kinks", without being specific. While the delay would have been disappointing, dealers and potential buyers could have taken solace in the notion that Denon was working hard to get everything right with these two players. Given the disappointment that many experienced with the much-hyped '2800, Denon should have held back the release of the '3800 and '9000.
     

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