New PW-2200, did I do good?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Alan Pummill, Mar 23, 2002.

  1. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Just got back from Soundwaves. My friend Kevin bought some nice gear. He got a Pioneer Elite VSX-33TX receiver, Toshiba HD box for his 50" Toshiba RPTV, Paradigm Monitor 7's (front), CC-370 (center), Mini Monitors (rear).
    These are the same speakers I've had in my house for about 3 years now except I have the CC-350 (center) and the Monitor 3's (rear). Kevin offered to buy my 3 year old Velodyne CT-120 sub, so I ordered a Paradigm PW-2200 at a price of $729.
    Question, how much is a 3 year old CT-120 worth? I paid $529 for it. Kevin has a nice Big Bertha driver he wants $100 for. It will probably be taken off the price of the sub!
    What do you guys think? [​IMG]
     
  2. Thomas F

    Thomas F Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a PW-2200 and it is a very good sub in it's price range. It's a good match for the Monitors. Somewhere on http://www.svsubwoofers.com there is a comparison table that compares the PW-2200 with other popular subs, and it comes out near the top. You did well. It's a good sub.
     
  3. Cam S

    Cam S Screenwriter

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    wow, It's amazing how us Canadians can get the Paradigm products so much cheaper than you guys. I had a chance to buy the PW-2200 for $700, Canadian!!
     
  4. Thomas F

    Thomas F Stunt Coordinator

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    I bought mine during my dealer's inventory clearance sale for $599 USD plus tax.
     
  5. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    $729 is a pretty good price. Anything in the $700-$750 range Canadian and you've done well.

    The PW2200 is a very good sub in it's Canadian price range. Which is approximately $440USD-$470USD. There are several significantly better choices in it's US price range. $599USD is $970CDN. The Adire Dharman at $599USD would take it, as would any of the SVS subs.
     
  6. Steven Simon

    Steven Simon Producer

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    Alan,

    Your email is bouncing. Please correct this problem. Also I have sent you a private message in response to your first email....
     
  7. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Steven, thank you for your reply to my e-mail. I don't know what bouncing means???[​IMG]
     
  8. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    "bouncing" means that the email is not getting through, and is being sent back to its sender.
     
  9. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Dustin, when I went to the SVS page, they tell you that a large room such as mine would require 2 SVS subs. Also, the PW-2200 goes down to 18Hz, the SVS, 25Hz.
    My room is 20' X 24'. The Velodyne CT-120 does a pretty good job at HT, and great at music. I'm thinking the PW-2200 will give me just that bit more bottom end. Another reason I decided to upgrade was that I will soon be adding an external amp to drive my Monitor 7's, or possibly a 3 channel amp to include the CC-350 center. I listen to about 70/30 music/movies.
    I have Sonex acoustic wall panels on both side walls and the front wall. My current configuration sounds sweet in this room, the PW-2200 sub and a new amp will top it off!! [​IMG]
     
  10. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    You are confusing extension with tuning frequency. Subs do play below their tuning frequency. And manufactures always inflate extension numbers, sure it can play 18hz, but at significantly lower levels than it can play at 30hz (like on the order of 15-20dB less). The SVS 25-31 is tuned to 25hz. I calculated (since Paradigm will never give this info out) the tuning frequency of a PW2200 to be 30hz (shocked the hell out of me when I figured that out, I was expecting 20-25hz). If it is properly stuffed (I have no way to know if it is or not) it might be as low as 27hz.

    A SVS 25-31PCi($550USD) will play lower and louder than a PW2200. A SVS 20-39PCi($650USD) will play significantly lower at higher levels than the PW2200. The 20-39PCi can do approximately 100dB at 20hz while the PW2200 will be approximately 90dB at 20hz. Although the 20-39 will give up a dB or two to the 25-31 above 30hz in exchange for that extension (but the 25-31 will still out gun a PW2200 at 20hz). And I'd be willing to bet that any of the SVS subs would have slightly better sounding bass than the PW2200.

    In Canada the PW2200 can be had for less than $500USD. I don't know why I thought you were from Canada and that price was $729 CDN, must have been sleeping. The SVS ends up going way up in price after shipping, conversions and taxes to Canada, so things are a little different up here. But if I was in the US, I would take a PW2200 over an SVS if the PW2200 was $500USD or less. Otherwise I wouldn't hesitate to take any of the SVS subs over a PW2200.
     
  11. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Hey Dustin, thanks for the additional input. You know the PW-2200 is on order, but I can always stop it.
    So you are saying that the cost of an SVS vs. a PW-2200 would be the determining factor in your choice. Are you also saying that one SVS would fit the bill in a 20' X 24' room.
    Make no mistake about it, I could change my mind and go with an SVS. Don't they make one that is tuned down to 16Hz??
    Help people, I need to make a decision, TODAY! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I'm saying that a PW2200 does not perform as well as any of the SVS subs, it's close, but not quite there. If one SVS isn't enough for your room then one PW2200 won't be either.

    The only way I would take a PW2200 over an SVS is if I could get it significantly cheaper, and the extra money it would take to go to the SVS wasn't there.

    So my recommendation would be to stop the PW2200 order if it is going to cost you $729USD. The PW2200 would have to be under $500USD before I'd consider it.

    Which SVS to get will depend on what you want, how much you are willing to spend, and if you plan to upgrade later. I don't think you'll want a 16-46, I like the 20-39 as it seems to me the best cost/extension/output compromise. My reasoning for this is within a series, the only real difference is a longer enclosure tube and slightly different length ports (doesn't justify the cost differences to my mind).

    In a room that size I'd want a dual SVS 20-39CS+/S1000 package. For $1000 you could get one 20-39CS+ and the S1000 now, then later you could add a second 20-39CS+ for $599 (the S1000 has two amp channels, so all you need is the CS passive sub to added a second one). A single CS+ would stomp on a PW2200 and a dual one would be so far beyond a PW2200 or Servo15 it's not even funny. You would save $100 if you bought a dual package to start with.

    If that is too much money but you might upgrade later, then I'd do the same thing, but with the 20-39CS/S700 combo ($799), add a second 20-39CS later ($450). The 20-39CS will definately beat a PW2200, just not by as much of a margin as the + series. You would save $50 if you bought a dual package to start with.

    If you don't plan to or want to add another sub later then I'd go with the 20-39PCi ($650). Same performance as the 20-39CS, just with an amp built into the sub.

    Another option if you don't plan to or want to add another sub later is the Adire Dharman ($599). It's a very nice finish box sub that will be equivalent, to maybe slightly better, than a 20-39PCi.
     
  13. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Thanks Dustin!! Let me ask you this, how big of a step up is the PW2200 from the Velo CT-120??

    I am going out of town for a few days on business, and will probably stick with the PW2200. I know it has to be a big step up from the CT-120! If I could only listen to those SVS's...
     
  14. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I'm not really familar with the Velodyne, but here is the info from Nousaine's list.

    VELODYNE ct120 - 101 / 20hz~87

    Paradigm PW2200 - 108 / 20hz~84 / 25hz ~104dB (112.8dB peak)

    You can read this as the CT120 can do 87dB at 20hz while the PW2200 can do 84dB. The CT120 average max output over 25-60hz is 101dB while the PW2200 is 108dB. The max output of the PW2200 is 112.8dB. Also note the huge drop in output of the PW2200 from 25hz to 20hz (20dB).

    Here is the SVS 20-39CS (original with the 600W fidek amp)

    20-39cs - 109.5 / 20hz~91dB / 25hz~105.8dB

    And here is the Adire Dharmn (the current SVS CS will be more like this).

    Average SPL 25-62 Hz: 107.9 dB

    Average SPL 20-62 Hz: 105.9 dB

    Bass Extension: 20 Hz @ 96 dB SPL

    Maximum Output: 114.6 dB SPL @ 32 Hz
     
  15. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Dustin, with all due respect, this review clearly shows that the PW-2200 is just as good as the 20-39cs. This is from Tom Nousaine.
    http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteP...sionPW2200.pdf
    You stated:
    The SVS 20-39cs...20 Hz~91 dB.
    In his review, Mr. Nousaine stated:
    The PW-2200...20 Hz~91 dB.
    I've had Paradigm speakers for 3 years now, I think I'll stick with something that I have heard.
     
  16. Steve Young

    Steve Young Stunt Coordinator

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    Alan, I have a SVS 20-39 CS and just this weekend my friend brought his PW2200 over so we could compare them. Yes the PW2200 is a very nice sub, but it just couldn't keep up with the SVS (extension and spl output). I just felt the PW2200 didn't have the same *umph* that the SVS has. We even ran them together at the same time, that was great bass, They seem to work well together.

    Anyway, you won't go wrong with the Pw2200, but if you want the best bang for your buck, get an SVS.

    My $.02

    Steve
     
  17. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Alan, where is this 91dB for the PW2200 at 20hz. The list I saw says 84dB at 20hz for the PW2200. And the 20-39CS being reviewed used the Fidek 300W amp instead of the Samson 350W amp (not that important, the PCi uses a 330W plate amp now) and it used the original driver (very important to performance results) not the new ISD driver which is around a 30% improvement over the original. The current SVS 20-39 would have results very similar to the Dharmn if tested again, maybe a little better.

    The PW2200 will be very close to the SVS above 30hz, below 30hz it lost to the original, and the new one definately widens the gap. Beside that's point, Steve just came in with first hand experience that backed up the numbers.
     
  18. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Dustin, I just got back in town from a business trip, and wanted to straighten you out on something you seem to find hard to beleive.
    If you would just take the time to go to the link I have provided above, you would see where Mr. Nousaine mentioned 91dB @ 20Hz for the PW-2200.
    Maybe later I'll add a SVS as a second sub, Steve said "that was great bass". I just have a hard time buying something unheard or unseen!!
    My decision is final...PW-2200!![​IMG]
     
  19. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    That's fine, I'm just offering my opinion. If it were me I'd take a SVS 20-39PCi over the PW2200 as it is cheaper and will perform better. I'm sure you'll be happy with the PW2200 though if you aren't willing to buy a sub online.

    I did another search, must have been looking at an old list or one with a typo.

    Paradigm PW2200 - 107.4 / 20hz~91(112.8dB peak)

    20-39cs - 109.5 / 20hz~91dB / 25hz~105.8dB

    However, do remember that the 20-39cs here is the original one. A 20-39PCi uses a new and more powerful amp and a new driver with a significant improvement in displacement capability. So the very small gap in these numbers will be larger when the SVS is tested again.

    If you've read my opinion, don't agree with it or are factoring in various reasons outside of performance and price that lead you to believe the PW2200 is your best option, that's a decision only you can make.

    I suppose my responses in this thread come off like I'm really trying to get you to change your mind. In a way I suppose I am. But my real intention is to offer my opinion, based on my experience, to be added to your knowledge base to help with your decision.

    You've made it. Now go pick up that PW2200 and enjoy it.
     
  20. Jeff Massey

    Jeff Massey Agent

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    Hello,

    I have listened to the pw2200 and had a sv cs20-39+ and the 2200 is not in the same league. The sv sub was great for music, I have a vandersteen 1b for mains and the sv keep up no problem. THe sv was total incredible for HT. Now if you step up tyo the paradign servo that's another story, but for the money I still like the sv over the servo.

    Thanks

    Jeff
     

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