New Outlaw LFM-1 and SVS PB2-ISD review (1 Viewer)

[Craig Chase]

Curtis.... Guess where the Maple finish comes from ? (this is a GOOD thing) ... We have the identical finish on the UFW-10's... and it is GORGEOUS... you will love it...

 

[steve nn]

They had more of a problem with the size of the SVS than We did here.

Definitely agree and I can understand such a issue. It is what it is. No issue in my HT though.

It is nice to see all three reviews (Eds also) correlate. No doubt about it.

I have actually been in the same mode lately. I think I am holding out for a maple finshed VTF-3MK2.

Good for you Curtis. That will be a nice addition to be sure.

 

[CurtisSC]

I don't think it comes from MLS. I saw a prototype, it looked great, but was vinyl. This was two months ago, and I was told that it would be the same cost as the matte black. Maybe something has changed?

(the golfcourse I played yesterday was 5 minutes from Hsu, but I didn't have time to drop in.)

 

[frank manrique]

quote:

"But the corresponding findings are remarkable... Between their findings and ours, in listening and measuring, the results we almost identical."

...which only goes to show that technical measurements are extremely essential when it comes to testing audio components...transducing systems in particular.

Am happy as a pig on slop to see the reviewer of both the Outlaw and SVS subs, you, or Ed don't avail the use of high-end audio terminology (i.e., "fast," "slow," "musical," "pace and rhythm," etc.) to describe subjective subwoofer sonic assessments either; such inane audio terminology usage only clouds and confuses what really matters when it comes to sound reproduction at home...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[Matt_Smi]

There is no doubt that the HSU STF-3 and the Outlaw LFM-1 are very similar (Dr. HSU did help them design it after all). If you compare the specs for both they are rated to go to 25 Hz, have the same cabinet dimensions and look very similar, the amps are very similar too, except that outlaws puts out 25 more watts and the driver on the outlaw looks just the one on the STF-3 (minus the Outlaw logo of course). I am not going to say that one is better than the other but to me it seems that Dr. HSU put a lot into the design of the LFM-1.

 

[Edward J M]

Yeah, a lot of people overlook the fact that I gave the STF-3 a very good score in my review.

And it was heartening to see the reviewer's subjective comments AND objective data on the LFM-1 (essentially an STF-3) mirror my own.

Interesting, I couldn't find which tune the PB2-ISD was run in for the Rives FR sweep. I'm assuming the 20 Hz tune, based on the FR.

Regardless, both did well for HT AND music, blowing into the weeds that silly notion that there are "HT subs" and "music subs". How about "accurate" subs? Nousaine pretty much nailed it when he said (I'm paraphrasing) "make a sub flat, deep, clean, and loud and the rest pretty much falls into place".

 

[Craig Chase]

Ed - I went back to your review... and have also looked at the results we got from the VTF-3/2 vs. the STF-3... I think the $100 premium for the VTF is pretty much a bargain... and I had never noticed how close our reviews are...

Of course, YOU were smart enough to post your review here... It appears AVS has sunk to the level that even a rave review gets scorn.

Notice noone HERE is blasting us for what we discovered about the Hsu subwoofers... in fact, you got a lot of heat on AVS, and did not even post there.


Matt - If you want further proof that you are correct in the subs being the same, neither manufacturer has corrected that notion...

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>It appears AVS has sunk to the level that even a rave review gets scorn.

 

[Craig Chase]

There's an interesting idea. And yes, SVS and AV123 get a LOT of scorn on AVS. Considering Bott actually raved about HIS SVS until He got his Velodynes... His review is still on SVS's site...

And, as long as having a fairly large box in your room is ok... there is NOTHING you can buy with the overall value of the PB2-ISD...

The Outlaw pair is close...

And TRY finding value like either in a B&M store...

 

[steve nn]

I'm not sure if I could get by with out my daily dose of Train-head, Morning-train or what ever his name is. Thinking about it I guess I could though.

it is sad that a couple of indivudals who use several different "names" each are allowed to highjack every thread with the same agenda.

Your ISP disclosure suggestion would be nice to see implemented Tom.

 

[Edward J M]

The PB1-ISD/STF-3 shoot-out was not without some bumps in the road, both here at HTF and over at AVS - but we got through it.

 

[terence]

Funny i was thinking the same thing, and also assumed it was ran in the 20Hz tune based on the FR.

 

[frank manrique]

quote:

"Regardless, both did well for HT AND music, blowing into the weeds that silly notion that there are "HT subs" and "music subs". How about "accurate" subs? Nousaine pretty much nailed it when he said (I'm paraphrasing) 'make a sub flat, deep, clean, and loud and the rest pretty much falls into place'."

Indeed! Audio equipment is either accurate or isn't.
Thus stands to reason that subbass systems will perform in a manner propitious for hi-fidelity sound reproduction (which should be the ultimate goal of all audio equipment designers) so long as such gear is accurately executed (not a difficult thing to do, actually)...period.

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."

 

[Felix_F]

I think you may mean a given poster's IP address, which would indeed help to cut down on the sockpuppetry so often seen of discussion forums. There's one problem with doing it, though, at it revolves around privacy issues. There are several documented instances of folks contacting an individual's employer, who was found through a simple Whois search, because of something that transpired on the web. On the forum that I help to admin, we made a choice not to display IP addresses, but at the same time, we are vigilant in perusing those who feel like they can take advantage of that policy. That said, we're a small forum and on a board with very high traffic such actions become very difficult to implement.

Felix

 

[Matt>C]

In regards to the LFM-1 being essentially an exact clone of the STF-3, I would have to disagree.

I spoke with Steve at Outlaw in detail, and while he did say Dr. Hsu assisted in the overall design which is readily apparent, the Outlaw engineers scrutinized a variety of drivers and amps before deciding on a final product.

I personally cannot vouche for a direct comparison against the STF-3, but I do know that I'm a very satisfied owner of the LFM-1

I just think it's unfortunate that this sub gets written off as a re-badged HSU STF-3, which some say has simply a prettier enclosure.

 

[Craig Chase]

Matt - Saying the Outlaw is a clone of the STF-3 is anything BUT an insult. As far as the Outlaw engineers scouring... don't take THIS as a put down, but if their engineers were that "up to speed" on subwoofers, they would not need Dr. Hsu's input... And if you read into the interior volume, amp, specs, weight... etc... there is very little difference.

You should be happy with the Outlaw, it is a very nice subwoofer for the $$$$$...

 

[Robb Roy]

Not only are there privacy concerns (as mentioned above) but if it's the IP Address that's displayed, there are security concerns as well. If it turns out one of the "haters" is a script kiddie, knows your IP address, and sees you're online, you better have a well patched system (that includes OS, virus, firewall, browser, etc.) and good backups. It's best to leave the IP address in the hands of the forum admins and let them run down the fake handles. It would be fun, though.

-Robb

 

[Felix_F]

It is fun! In the old days of Usenet, hunting sockpuppets was half the joy of participating. Having done my share of it, I can only wonder why a forum-savvy admin would ignore the easy to spot posting patterns that typically raise a red flag. I just finished reading a thread on AVS where a poster, banned from this board, is playing the SVS Sucks game. While I can't blame some forum participants from taking his posts on face value, especially considering the general gullibility that seems to drive the board forcus, admins do hold a certain responsibly for ensuring that their boards are not havens for blatant, personality-driven misinformation.

Felix

 

[CurtisSC]

WOW....we have gone way OT.

I am in Robb Roy's camp when it comes to privacy.

As far as the forums are concern, HTF, AVS, HTS, etc...they each have their own personality and the type of people they cater to. Everything posted is an opinion to me, unless it is proven or I see/hear it for myself.

I think one of the major reasons for problems on the boards are the people that can not seperate opinion from fact....when they are posting OR reading.

 

[Craig Chase]

Curtis... the problem with AVS is, as long as you bash either SVS or Rocket, you are ok... anyone else, and you will get banned or deleted. Nicholas R, who claimed to own four SVS subs said very clearly here that he owns these four... This was here on HTF...look for post #74

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...=&pagenumber=4

On AVS he said this ... look 1/3 way down the page:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5&pagenumber=2

Note on June 8th he had heard a PC-Ultra, but never a box sub, now he has heard a box sub, but never a PC-Ultra...

Had this guy done this about Hsu, Bott would have banned him, locked the thread... you name it.

And guys like Davidson would have been screaming...