New Home Theatre. Want Opinions!! I am new to HTF! (1 Viewer)

[Adam_Reiter]

Yeah, you know, I went to "the Good Guys" tonght in La Jolla. They had the new Klipsch RF-7's. I made them bust em out of the box. They didnt even have them pulled out to demo. I had the guy hook em up to the Denon 5800, since they don't carry Onkyo. I had them play some Gladiator, Lost World, U751. Sounded really really nice. I could definately tell they were a little tight and bright. But hell, they were right of the box. Give those suckers a good 100 hours.... I bet they sound really good.
Honestly, I think these Klipsch's are going to serve my purpose. I will still go and demo a bunch of other speakers. I want to check out some B&W's and stuff. The really high end place in San Diego just started carrying the B&W line. This showroom has $40,000 speakers there. They have $10,000 bookshelf speakers. I am looking forward to checking out their showroom. They are actually right down the street from me.
I also was checking out a pair of Veritas speakers made by I think Energy. They sounded good. But, they were over $1700 per speaker. I dont think they sounded any better than the out of the box Klipsch. They were a little warmer, but, they have also been well broken in. They surely didnt sound $1200 better than the Klipsch. I am going to have to hear SUCH a difference in a speaker, to make me spend extra money, more than the Klipsch. I had the guy crank up Beethoven's 5th with all the Klipsch's going. He was playing a DVD-A. Sounded bitchin!!
As far as tv's go, I havent seen one single Projection TV that impresses me. I absolutely cannot stand that unless you are dead center, you dont have as good of picture. Yes, I agree they have come a long way, but it is unexceptable to me. Plus, dealing with eiter grey bars or stretched screen? No thanx. I'd rather have a 4:3 and give up some black barsI am definately sticking with Tube for now. However, one TV did impress me. The new Mistubishi. I think its the DLP, or DLT. Something like that. That TV rocks. However, you wont see my plunk down $15k for ANY tv, EVER!!
Honestly, I think I'd rather get a Projector if I had my choice. I am going to wait. Maybe I will wait until the Mitsubishi technology comes down to like $5000-$6000. Then I think it is worth it! Hell, I remeber Plasma's for $19,000. What are they now? $6000? Couple years, I will get me a big screen. Until then, when I buy my house, I'll get a Projector.
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Adam Reiter
Network Engineer
San Diego, CA

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Adam,
Why ask our opinions if you know full well your mind was
made up before you even posted this?
IMHO I think your perception of RPTV's is horribly incorrect
there is no "Sweet Spot" with my 61" 4:3 RCA RPTV I can sit
well beyond the 60 degree "field" and the picture does not
dim or exhibit shadows. Some RPTV's are not created equaly
and I beleive that what you looked at was a perfect example.
Of course thats IMHO...
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[John Gates]

What is the best damn set of speakers I can get, allowing room for surrounds and 2 center channel speakers, all for $3500-$4000? Any takers on this one?

I'll take this one up with two ideas:
From nOrh:
5 x Synthetic Marble 6.9 ($1000/pair) = $2500 !!!
These contain Vifa's top-of-the-line VIFA drivers, all silver wiring, and a very classy synthetic marble cabinet. Paired with good upstream electronics, I haven't found anything that sounds as good for music or HT as the SM 6.9.
If you need a shielded center (non-rptv), you'll have to trade out the center 6.9 for a marble 4.0 for a savings of $125. Still very well-matched.
Another possibility from AV-Reality:
4 x AV Reality 3D ($1500/pair)
See about a matching center speaker from AV Reality.
The 3D uses a unique cabinet design and VERY high-end scanspeak drivers, widely regarded as the best in the industry.
Both nOrh and AV-Reality are direct-market-only companies, but there are many, many reviews available on their products (and probably owners in your area). Reviews and discussion can be found in their respective forums at http://www.harmonicdiscord.com.
If the money were mine, I would go with the SM 6.9 package from nOrh, though, in a heartbeat. Well, I might pause to look at the solid marble 7.0 @ $2000/pair, but the 6.9 is an incredible speaker for the price.
John

 

[John Gates]

duplicate post... sorry!
[Edited last by John Gates on October 12, 2001 at 09:27 AM]

 

[John Gates]

Picture of the AV-Reality 3D's...

http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/gallery/DueN/aae

 

[JaleelK]

"Do take Jaleel's comments with a grain of salt. He's a big fan of mysterious "Double Blind Studies" but has never participated in one himself(or provided evidence of, if he has), nor can he point to any published ones that back up his claims."
I don't think you know what I have done. Anyway,there's nothing mysterious about Double Blind Level matched listening test, to the contrary, double blind listening test are the most scientific way of determining if audio difference exist between two audio sources. I don't have to participate in one myself to when I have read reports of countless other participating in them and have come away with the same conclusion. Most amps, CD players, DACs etc. sound the same. I have read reports of audiophiles with megabucks systems with megabuck amps who proclaimed to be able to detect sonic difference between their amps and a cheap Yamaha amp,yes they could alway tell when they knew which was which, but when made double blind, they failed.
If you want to know more, read the latest issue of Sound and Vision Magazine, they address the issue of double blind testing, when it comes to DVD-A vs. SACD, SACD vs. PCM etc.
If you read that article, you get idea of just how important double blind listening test are. If you don't trust me, go the PCABX.COM website, where you can do your own ABX test, like I did when I did a listening test between a Bryston amp and Parasound amp and I was wrong each time when trying to determine which was wich.

 

[Ashley Burt]

Just for something to check out... Take a listen to the M&K 750 speakers. I personally own these speakers and love them. I decided not to get the M&K sub and get a SVS instead. They are THX Select certified (which you seem to like). You can get this setup on ebay for about ~1300 for the 5 speakers. I personally bought through a local dealer and paid a little more. Just remember to never pay MSRP and the audiophile shops. They usually always will work with you. Also, M&K has released a tripole speaker that is matched to the 750's for a 7.1 setup. Link Removed
Give them a listen... I really like them!

 

[Ted Lee]

dup post
[Edited last by Ted Lee on October 12, 2001 at 10:51 AM]

 

[Ted Lee]

Honestly, I think these Klipsch's are going to serve my purpose.

then that is all that should matter to you. it sounds like you're doing the right thing by checking out some other brands, but go with what you want. imho, there is nothing more subjective than speakers. if it sounds good to you, then go for it.
i think you'll be very happy with the receiver. i'm not sure if i would spend that kind of money on the dvd player, but if you've got it...then go for it. it's your money man...spend it the way you want. it's not like your choosing crap...all the stuff you listed is sweet and i think any ht enthusiast would be proud.
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You step in the stream,
But the water has moved on.
This page is not here.

 

[Adam_Reiter]

I think maybe my thinkings are mental. A Couple of things. Ever since the invention of EBAY, I have been hooked. The point of getting brand new merchandise for 50%(usually) excites the hell out of me. Keeping this in mind, I almost flat out REFUSE to pay retail for anything anymore! Only if I absolutely HAVE to. I buy all of my clothes, electronics, gadgets, ect, on Ebay.
Fact is, I DO NOT have my mind made up yet. But here is my logic. If I went into "the Good Guys", or any store that carried the Klipsch Reference 7 series speakers. And paid full retail for the mains, 2 centers, and surround. I'd pay $4,700! That is alot of money. If I buy them on Ebay, brand new, they are $3,050,not including shipping, but also no tax! Now, I run the risk of getting a bum speaker, and not having a warranty through an un-authorized dealer. This is what sucks. But, I may be able to get a warranty, if it is bought through a "reputable"

 

[Darrel McBane]

Looks like your list of equipment should do you just fine. I've own Klipsch for over 13 years and loved them from day one. I have just recently move to another brand. But, that's just because my listening has changed over the years. I'd say buy speakers for the long term. As far as receivers. It's a matter of bells and whistles that you like. I'd recommend good clean power over sound effects any day. Receivers come and go, so buy one that meets your current needs.
My recommendation would be to find a local mid-high end store and find a salesman you can stomach. Some of these guys are jerks but other have a vast knowledge base and know their customers just by looking at them. A local salesmenfriend can allow you to try before you purchase, explain different brands and work with you when things go wrong. Relying on E-Bay for everything is looking for more trouble than anybody should want to deal with. Sometimes spending more locally is a bargain!
As far as cabling. A try before you buy store is a major plus as well. Most cables will fill the bill for average equipment. Only after you start finding holes in you system after some time does tweaking your system with cables and line cleaners etc.. come into play for the most part. I won't enter into the blind test versas.... I know what I hear treads. It's a waste of time at least to me.
Good Luck!
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Enjoy the Toys!

 

[RicP]

I have read reports of countless other participating in them and have come away with the same conclusion

Well Pray Tell Jaleel...where are these reports? Please provide links or published reports.
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Ric Perrott - My DVD's

 

[John Gates]

Adam,
If you hate paying "retail" then you should DEFINITELY explore the "direct to consumer" audio companies that are out there. They charge a flat rate, BUT they totally avoid the marketing expenses and dealer markups, and they pass that savings on to you. Even buying new stuff on E-Bay, unless you are buying used, you are still dealing with a "middle man" who has some markup. Imagine what the cost would be if you could buy directly from Klipsch?
In general, it's a way that fanatical bargain hunters like you and I can get MUCH more value for our money.
Examples of companies with this business model:
SVS (you've already decided on them -- good choice)
Outlaw (several have suggested you look at their products)
nOrh
AV-Reality
Swan Diva
ACI
Home Theater Direct
Axiom
Adire
HSU
Ascend Acoustics
The list goes on.
If you are serious about listening to some nOrh gear, just let us know where you are located, and maybe someone here can point you to an owner. In-home demos are more fun anyway. As for the other companies on the above list, you can probably dig up owners there as well.
I know you said you couldn't tell the difference anyway, but if that is totally true, why not just buy cheaper speakers and be happy? Well, I believe you probably can tell the difference, and the more time you spend listening to speakers, the more you will notice about them. Since it sounds like you are a value hunter, I'm sure you'd agree that it's fun to find the best bang for the buck (all part of the fun of the experience, IMO). Think of how many DVD's $1000 can buy on e-bay!
BTW, just to give you an example of what I'm talking about, the nOrh SM 6.9 uses the Vifa XT tweeter, one of the best in the industry. The Krell LAT-1 uses the same tweeter, but the Krell goes for.... lets seee...... I think $15,000/pair? Well, not sure about how much Krell speakers cost these days, but it is VASTLY more than the nOrh. That's one example of the VALUE that direct companies offer you.
SVS and Adire both make products for well under $700 that rival models from other companies in the $2000+ range. VALUE.
Anyway, I think that audio is undergoing a huge shift right now, and these direct companies are really challenging the traditional market for high-end audio. They are successfully challenging because they tend to offer exceptional price / performance ratio, even vs. "discounted" gear.
I didn't mean to write a book about this, but I have much in common w/you with respect to bargain hunting. While I'm also HOOKED on e-bay, I'm also very excited about these others who have made high-end audio more affordable for a guy like me.
Find someone in your area who has these, and go take a listen. Couldn't hurt. You'll probably make new friends in the process (at least).
PS. Hey, if the Klipsch sound good to you, get them. They are nice, and I'm sure you'll be very satisfied with their performance if you like the sound. Certainly nothing wrong with that.
John

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

(Oops, John's post slipped in ahead of mine, saying basically the same thing.)
quote: I'd worry that I would buy a pair of say, B&W's, or nOhr's, but not be able to tell the differnce. Then I'd almost certainly be paying retail when I didn't have to, due to the fact of my not able to tell the difference.[/quote]
Buying nOhrs at retail price is the equivalent of buying an SVS at retail price. They're both quality manufacturers who offer their products only from their internet store and rely almost exclusively on word-of-mouth advertising so that they can keep their prices to a minimum.
This business model appears to be growing in popularity. For example: SVS, nOrh, Ascend, HTD, Outlaw, Adire, HSU and others I can't think of at the moment. You might ask if there are any nOrh owners nearby that would let you audition. Due N was kind enough to do that for me (thanks again, Due).
[Edited last by Ryan Schnacke on October 12, 2001 at 02:33 PM]
[Edited last by Ryan Schnacke on October 12, 2001 at 02:38 PM]

 

[Adam_Reiter]

Well, is there anyone on this forum that lives in the San Diego area in which they might have any of the aforementioned factory direct speaker manufacturers' equipment in your setup? If so, can I come check em out?
The nOhr look like a sweet thing. They have the same shape as the B&W Nautilus speakrs. Which shows you something.
Is it just me, or does anyone else have a hard time looking at a large tower speaker, say the new Klipsch RF-7 (they are HUGE)or equivelent, and then looking at these little tiny nOhr's, and then being told that the nOhr's sound better and bassier! I dont doubt that they might or even do sound better, its just hard to think that they would.
Hell, if they can sell a pair of bookshelf speakers for $10,000, I know it could happen.
Also, the thing I said about speakers, I should have said, once you get to a certain level of speakrs, like above $2,000, I think it might be hard to tell the difference. But what do I know.
Also, there is this slight chance that I CAN get the Klipsch speakers at dealer cost due to my buddy's buddy that works at Soundtrack. So, that might factor in as well.
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Adam Reiter
Network Engineer
San Diego, CA

 

[Holadem]

Adam,
I will change my speaker recommendation at this point. You heard the RF-7, you loved the RF-7, GO FOR IT. And I totally agree with the stuff about diminishing return and the type of music you listen to.
--
Holadem

 

[BryanZ]

Adam,
Try emailing Namphung ([email protected]) and ask her to put you in contact with some people that live around the San Diego area. Also, nOrh speakers are not better than Klipsch. I just do not care for the horn sound of the Klipsch. That is just personal prefererence. Try listening to some Dynaudio Contours (1.1 or 1.3). That should give you a good idea of what the nOrhs will sound like. As for bass, the sub should be able to cover what the speakers don't. No worries there. Enjoy!

 

[John Gates]

Agreed with BryanZ. nOrh speaks aren't better, but they are very different. You may well decide after all the listening that you were right in the first place and the RF-7's are the best for you. If that turns out to be the case, you can buy the Klipsch and be very satisfied, knowing that you indeed got the best deal and performance for your money. To me, that feeling of assurance is not only part of the fun of the hunt for new gear, but also part of the satisfaction of ownership. There's nothing more hideous and expensive for the audio nut than nagging doubts. ;-)
I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions of all the stuff you listened to and your basic eval of each setup. It's always fun to hear about the exploits of other HTF members.
John
PS. I'm in Virginia, or I'd offer to let you come over and listen to my stuff.....

 

[Greg S]

Adam,
Do yourself a BIG FAVOR, find some nOrh's to listen to and you won't be sorry!!!
Besides the Marble speakers are VERY nice and one helluva conversation piece not to mention the WAF is quite high on these.
Greg
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Link Removed

 

[Adam_Reiter]

I have a question for all of the nOhr owners! BTW, kewl looking setup Greg! Are the 6.9 nOrh's as big as the 9.0's? It looks like the reviews on the nOhr 9.0's are BIG! I am impressed that everyone says the nOhr uses the finest drivers availible! That is a BIG statement. Specially if they are the same drivers that are used in $15,000 speakers. Greg,(and all nOhr owners that use nOhr for HT) how does the HT perform? The 6.9's look alot bigger that the 4.0's. How does the 4.0 perform as far as a center channel? any distortion. I would assume that at 130W/Channel the Onkyo DS989 would drive the nOhr's sufficiently?
Here is what I like about the nOrh's. First, the shape is growing on me. The more I look at them, the more a kinda like them. I like that they are made in marble. Hard, steady, and rock solid. I like that people are saying that they take their marble 9.0's into high end audio shops and the sales people cant put anything to compare to it until they hit 5-7 times the price! Those are BIG words! I like the thought of buying a pair of Marble 9.0's as a main set of speakers for only $3000 shipped, and having people say that these are the finest loudspeakers they have ever listened to! Those are HUGE words as well. I certainly dont see anyone saying that about Klipsch speakers!! I would feel very good about buying speakers that many people have thought were the finest availible! And for only $3k to boot? Can that many people be wrong? And, if so much more clarity comes into classical and jazz, maybe I will have to start listening to those out of sheer amazment of the sound!?
One possibility I am thinking about is dropping the Onkyo DVD player, since I allready have the DV-444. Then take the extra money, get a set of nOrh 9.0's with two nOrh 4.0 marble shielded speakers for front and rear center channels, and then a set of regular nOrh 4.0 marbles for the surround. Would nOhr owners recommend this setup? Or, would you go with nOhr 9.0 mains and prism centers and surrounds?
I am interested to hear all of your opinions. I also did send an email to nOhr requesting if they could give me contact info for San Diego owners. Particularly ones that have purchased 9.0's and marble 4.0's.
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Adam Reiter
Network Engineer
San Diego, CA