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New home construction with home theatre in the basement (1 Viewer)

Eddie Sizemore

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I will be building a home theatre room in the basement of a new house that is under construction. The room size is 11 X 22 X 8. My current system will be used initially, but plan on wiring for a future upgrade. I am not sure what the exact configuration will be, so I am wiring to support up to 9.4.6. The room will be used for movies 100% and will be light controlled.

Current system is a 65 inch TV with a 7.1 system

AVR: Denon X2300W
All speakers and sub are 19 years old.
Center JBL center not sure of the model.
Front Left and Right JBL S312 II.
The 4 surrounds are JBL N24 II.
Sub SVS.

My first upgrade will be to a 4k projector like the JVC DLA-NX5 or an ultra-short throw. I am thinking of wiring all speaker locations to both the front and back of the room so my AVR and input devices will be close to my display device. I will also run long HDMI from front to back just to have options.

After I have the projector added I will upgrade my AVR and speakers. I would like to upgrade to an 11.2 Denon AVR-X6700H or 13.2 AVR-X6700H, so I could have 7.1.4, 7.1.6 or 9.1.4.

I am unsure of what to do about speakers. I plan on using my current sub but am open to upgrading to one or a pair of new SVS subs if needed.

Is it better to use tower speakers as the front right and left vs using the same speaker as your surrounds?

For the atmos height speakers would the SVS prime elevation mounted high on a wall work as well as speakers mounted on the ceiling?

Option 1 use current speakers and get new speakers just for atmos height.

Option 2 Get new surround speakers like the SVS prime satellite or ultra-surround and use the N24 as the height mounted to the celling.

Option 3 All new SVS prime or ultra or similar system.

Thanks for any advice.
 

John Dirk

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Welcome! You left out one important piece of information, budget. That aside, for a room this size my recommendations are below.

I will also run long HDMI from front to back just to have options.
If by long you mean over about 20 ft, make sure you choose an "active" or optical HDMI cable.

After I have the projector added I will upgrade my AVR and speakers. I would like to upgrade to an 11.2 Denon AVR-X6700H or 13.2 AVR-X6700H, so I could have 7.1.4, 7.1.6 or 9.1.4.
You should seriously be considering separates [Pre/Pro and dedicated amps instead of integrated receiver (AVR) ] for a room this size.

I am unsure of what to do about speakers. I plan on using my current sub but am open to upgrading to one or a pair of new SVS subs if needed.
What model SVS do you currently have. If your budget allows, dual subs are generally preferred.
Is it better to use tower speakers as the front right and left vs using the same speaker as your surrounds?
Definitely towers for Fronts. There is a dedicated speaker/Sub recommendations thread here you may want to check out.
For the atmos height speakers would the SVS prime elevation mounted high on a wall work as well as speakers mounted on the ceiling?
Trust me. Don't go down that road. Atmos speaker placement is crucial to realistic 3D imaging. Visit the Dolby Atmos site for more information but basically they need to be directly overhead and properly positioned.
 

Eddie Sizemore

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Welcome! You left out one important piece of information, budget. That aside, for a room this size my recommendations are below.


If by long you mean over about 20 ft, make sure you choose an "active" or optical HDMI cable.


You should seriously be considering separates [Pre/Pro and dedicated amps instead of integrated receiver (AVR) ] for a room this size.


What model SVS do you currently have. If your budget allows, dual subs are generally preferred.

Definitely towers for Fronts. There is a dedicated speaker/Sub recommendations thread here you may want to check out.

Trust me. Don't go down that road. Atmos speaker placement is crucial to realistic 3D imaging. Visit the Dolby Atmos site for more information but basically they need to be directly overhead and properly positioned.

Thanks for the advice.

The HDMI cable from front to back would be around 35-40ft, so optical for sure.

I do not know what model of svs sub I have. I could not find my receipt, it was 19 years ago and the speaker does not have that info on it that I could find. I think it was 300 watts with 600 peak but I am not very sure of those numbers. Not even sure if it is the same SVS, I thought I bought it from someone that made them in their garage.


20210102_181000.jpg


The house is still under construction so I will have to see what we end up spending on the house first.
Rough budget of what I would like to do.
4k projector $6,000 (This is for sure and the first step)
AVR - 11.2 $2,500 or AVR - 13.2 $4,000
Speakers SVS Prime center, tower front right and left, 4 satellite, 4 atmos $3,000 or SVS Ultra tower and surrounds $5,000
Sub dual SVS PC-4000? $3,400
so looks like $15,000 - $20,000 if I do at all.

I have read a few of the separates articles on this site and thought about it but it would push my cost even higher. But, that is why I am asking, it could be a better use of my budget. I had assumed that my room size was small and an AVR could handle it with no issue.

Thanks again.
 

Eddie Sizemore

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Thanks for the advice.

The HDMI cable from front to back would be around 35-40ft, so optical for sure.

I do not know what model of svs sub I have. I could not find my receipt, it was 19 years ago and the speaker does not have that info on it that I could find. I think it was 300 watts with 600 peak but I am not very sure of those numbers. Not even sure if it is the same SVS, I thought I bought it from someone that made them in their garage.


View attachment 86339

The house is still under construction so I will have to see what we end up spending on the house first.
Rough budget of what I would like to do.
4k projector $6,000 (This is for sure and the first step)
AVR - 11.2 $2,500 or AVR - 13.2 $4,000
Speakers SVS Prime center, tower front right and left, 4 satellite, 4 atmos $3,000 or SVS Ultra tower and surrounds $5,000
Sub dual SVS PC-4000? $3,400
so looks like $15,000 - $20,000 if I do at all.

I have read a few of the separates articles on this site and thought about it but it would push my cost even higher. But, that is why I am asking, it could be a better use of my budget. I had assumed that my room size was small and an AVR could handle it with no issue.

Thanks again.
 

Eddie Sizemore

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I found the receipt for the SVS sub, it is a model SV25-31PCI and only 18 years old. The center speaker is a JBL S Center II.
 

JohnRice

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I agree with @John Dirk about seriously considering separates instead of a receiver. I would also venture outside SVS speakers. They're good for certain, but at least look further, and by that I don't mean Klipsch ( :cool:) but some of the many excellent brands available.
 

John Dirk

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I have read a few of the separates articles on this site and thought about it but it would push my cost even higher. But, that is why I am asking, it could be a better use of my budget. I had assumed that my room size was small and an AVR could handle it with no issue.

Believe me, I understand the desire to contain costs all too well but you have a VERY special opportunity her since you are building from the ground up. You're correct in that separates do cost more up front but they will pay dividends in the long run. Since you've read other threads on the subject I'll assume you know what I mean by that but let me know if you do not and I'll explain further.

Your room is almost exactly the same size as mine. You probably could "get away" with an AVR but is that what you're really after here? You could also easily get away with a projector in the 2K range but you've decided to budget 6K. I'm not judging but do you see what I mean? In the end it's your money so there's no wrong answer. I just want you to be truly amazed by whatever you finally end up with.

I just went through a similar experience with new speakers. I decided to go over budget but this will likely be the last set of speakers I ever buy and I just can't wait to get into my Theater Room at the end of each day. For me it was worth exceeding my budget.
 

Eddie Sizemore

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I agree with @John Dirk about seriously considering separates instead of a receiver. I would also venture outside SVS speakers. They're good for certain, but at least look further, and by that I don't mean Klipsch ( :cool:) but some of the many excellent brands available.
I will take a look at separates and I may just get some height speakers and see how they sound with my current one.
 

Eddie Sizemore

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Believe me, I understand the desire to contain costs all too well but you have a VERY special opportunity her since you are building from the ground up. You're correct in that separates do cost more up front but they will pay dividends in the long run. Since you've read other threads on the subject I'll assume you know what I mean by that but let me know if you do not and I'll explain further.

Your room is almost exactly the same size as mine. You probably could "get away" with an AVR but is that what you're really after here? You could also easily get away with a projector in the 2K range but you've decided to budget 6K. I'm not judging but do you see what I mean? In the end it's your money so there's no wrong answer. I just want you to be truly amazed by whatever you finally end up with.

I just went through a similar experience with new speakers. I decided to go over budget but this will likely be the last set of speakers I ever buy and I just can't wait to get into my Theater Room at the end of each day. For me it was worth exceeding my budget.
I will check out separates and just getting 4 speakers for the height will give me more room in the budget. If I need or want I can upgrade the rest of the speakers at a later time.
 

Eddie Sizemore

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Getting ready to wire my theatre room and I have 14/2 speaker wire, Cat6 and RG6 quad shield coaxial. Which would be best for the Subs? I saw in the Building A Home Theater? Start Here thread that you could use twisted pair or coaxial. Since I have both cable types which would be best?
 

JohnRice

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Getting ready to wire my theatre room and I have 14/2 speaker wire, Cat6 and RG6 quad shield coaxial. Which would be best for the Subs? I saw in the Building A Home Theater? Start Here thread that you could use twisted pair or coaxial. Since I have both cable types which would be best?
Not twisted pair. I think the simplest and best solution is RG6 and then put RCA adapters on the ends.
 

Eddie Sizemore

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Not sure if I should continue here or start a new thread in each section that I need advice on.

We are living in the new house, and it is time to start working on the media room. I had planned on upgrading the display first, but I decided that I will be using SVS speakers, and they had a price increase in October. I went ahead and bought my speakers before the increase.

My room is wired for 9.4.6 and I plan on running 9.2.6 using the following speakers:
  • 6 SVS Prime Satellites for the surrounds
  • 6 SVS Prime Elevations mounted on the celling for ATMOS
  • SVS Ultra Center
  • SVS Prime Pinnacles for left and right
  • Dual SVS PB-4000
I still need a 16-channel processor, amps to run 15 speakers and a 4k projector or 4k UST. My budget for the remaining items 15 to 20.

For amps I was looking at something like the following but open to suggestions:

Emotiva
  • XPA-DR3 or XPA-3 for LCR
  • 2 XPA-6 for the surrounds and ATMOS
I have no idea what I am going to do for a Processor. I do not need 8k so I assume that I have at least a few good options. I am looking at the Emotiva due to the EmoBucks discount to go along with the amps. Is the RMC-1 a good choice and what others should I look at?

For a display I would like a good 4k projector. I could use a UST or normal one. My room is light controlled and 11 x 22 x 8. I think I can fit a 120-to-140-inch screen in 16x9 format.
 

JohnRice

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Not sure if I should continue here or start a new thread in each section that I need advice on.
I would say, please continue in this thread because it has information that would need to be repeated, plus this is the Projects section. Projects involve multiple things and that is exactly why this section exists. It's much more productive than splitting things up.

I can't really see any flaws with your plans. Those are fine options for amps. You might also check into D-Sonic, who allows you custom build amps with the power you want to each channel. You can probably get everything you need into two enclosures instead of three.

One thing you should be aware of is that the way Home Atmos currently works, when you have six surround and/or overhead speakers, you will generally get only occasional sound from the middle pairs, and in some cases you won't ever get any sound. It's kind of complicated, but there is a limit of 16 "Objects" in home Atmos. Objects can be static channels, such as in the 7.1 base of all home Atmos soundtracks, or moving objects. Often, 12 objects are dedicated to the base 7.1.4 channels, which only leaves four more. Those will never be assigned to middle surround/overhead channels that very few systems have, so they can only be used as moving objects, which means sound will only come from those middle speakers if/when a moving object tracks across that space. Some soundtracks (Disney, for instance) only use the base 7.1.4 channels, so sound never comes from any middle speaker.

Processing could be used to bridge the gap between front and back speakers, but I'm not aware of that being permitted. At least not yet. There are some rather absurd ways to rig that yourself using a bunch of extra gear, but I seriously doubt it's worth it.

I just wanted to point it out, because you might find it actually works better to run the front pairs as front, and configure (duplicate) the middle and back pairs as back. That's especially easy with separates.
 

Bob Bielski

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Ok I am not trying to hi-jack Eddies thread, but since he is in the middle of commiting. This is somewhat related to his build. This question goes out to both Johns, and Brian as well. I have been in limbo for 5 years with my system because my daughter moved back home with a new granddaughter. Now they have moved downstairs since all the construction in complete, and my system is back up and running. My final thing to get done is the height speakers. Brian and John Rice both are aware that my dream was to mount speakers, full size floor standers on the ceiling. I have had so many problems with getting it done. But now after finally being ready to pull the plug I am having second thoughts. I read way too much and happened to come across several articles from the CEO that created Auro. I want to post 2 interviews he did for Widescreen Review back in 2014, and links to a few videos on YouTube.
This guy is special and so smart. I really think his speaker layout is the best for Dolby Atmos, and DTSX, as well as Auro.
His science based research, and use of experts from around the world tell me to mount 30 degrees higher than the 5.1 surround layer on the floor. Would love to hear your opinions before I commit. I trust that you can help me make sense of this ton of information, and John Rice I am sure you could put this to the test with your Marantz.

So the Widescreen interview is 2 parts, and then the vids. I know it is a lot to ask of you gentlemen to read, but I feel like this should be more well known to all the theater enthusiasts on this wonderful site.





 

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Bob Bielski

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This video from Denon states that the proper elevation of the height speakers is half the distance between the Left and Right speakers. Finally an easy formula to start with.

One setup for all 3 codecs!

 
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JohnRice

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Ok I am not trying to hi-jack Eddies thread, but since he is in the middle of commiting. This is somewhat related to his build. This question goes out to both Johns, and Brian as well. I have been in limbo for 5 years with my system because my daughter moved back home with a new granddaughter. Now they have moved downstairs since all the construction in complete, and my system is back up and running. My final thing to get done is the height speakers. Brian and John Rice both are aware that my dream was to mount speakers, full size floor standers on the ceiling. I have had so many problems with getting it done. But now after finally being ready to pull the plug I am having second thoughts. I read way too much and happened to come across several articles from the CEO that created Auro. I want to post 2 interviews he did for Widescreen Review back in 2014, and links to a few videos on YouTube.
This guy is special and so smart. I really think his speaker layout is the best for Dolby Atmos, and DTSX, as well as Auro.
His science based research, and use of experts from around the world tell me to mount 30 degrees higher than the 5.1 surround layer on the floor. Would love to hear your opinions before I commit. I trust that you can help me make sense of this ton of information, and John Rice I am sure you could put this to the test with your Marantz.

So the Widescreen interview is 2 parts, and then the vids. I know it is a lot to ask of you gentlemen to read, but I feel like this should be more well known to all the theater enthusiasts on this wonderful site.






I'll give these a watch after work. Unfortunately, I don't have Auro. It's a paid add-on with both my newer Marantz units (SR7012 and AV7703). I do believe that the standard recommendations for location of overhead speakers by places like Dolby are not ideal. A lot of it is influenced by the number of rows of viewing positions and the rather limited ability of home Atmos. Regarding the number of rows, you tend to end up with having to decide between creating ideal reproduction for a single row, or sacrificed reproduction for more than one row.
 

Bob Bielski

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Great John. If anyone can get to the bottom of all this info it would be you I am sure. I can't wait to try out my new small speakers in this way. I am going to try 4 ADS CM5s. Bigger than my last small ones but not huge by no means.
I thought you had Auro built in. I talk to Dave Moritz alot and he has a Marantz with the Auro built in so I ASS umed you did too. But there is an Auro-matic algorithm that supposedly makes Atmos sound better. Have a good holiday and I will be watching for your opinion on the information. Auro is going to be streaming music soon too.
 

JohnRice

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Great John. If anyone can get to the bottom of all this info it would be you I am sure. I can't wait to try out my new small speakers in this way. I am going to try 4 ADS CM5s. Bigger than my last small ones but not huge by no means.
I thought you had Auro built in. I talk to Dave Moritz alot and he has a Marantz with the Auro built in so I ASS umed you did too. But there is an Auro-matic algorithm that supposedly makes Atmos sound better. Have a good holiday and I will be watching for your opinion on the information. Auro is going to be streaming music soon too.
Marantz started adding Auro 3D to their units after both of the ones I have. On mine, it's a $200 premium.
 

Bob Bielski

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Damn, they should give it to you for free. I have the same problem with my Pre-pro it came with Atmos and it is extra for DTSX, they don't even offer Auro. Dolby must have paid everyone off. Just doesn't seem fair.
 

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