New Guys first setup with questions! (1 Viewer)

[saabtastic17]

Hi everyone! My name is Tim and I hope to use this forum as some direction for what I want to accomplish in my setup and also to learn about HT so later on I can do a true custom setup in a dedicated room. As of right now I'm 19 and live at home with my parents and don't intend on moving for a while so this is my setup currently. My bedroom is split in three areas: office, tv, bed.
My system laydown is:
TV - Sony KDL-46HX800 w/ 3D add-on
7.1 Receiver - Sony STR-DH830 w/ iPod dock
BlueRay - Sony BDP-S470
Gaming - Xbox 360 w/ Kinect
Center Channel - Pioneer SP-C21
Front Stage - Pioneer SP-FS51-LR
Rear Surround - SP BS21-LR
Subwoofer - RCA SPO500AW
HDMI Cables are all Rocketfish
Subwoofer cable is Monster cable
Speaker wire is 16 gauge KnuKonceptz
TV stand is a Whalen
Now for some pictures:

I love my Sony Bravia its a great tv, my room as you can see really isn't fit for a projector, so I just went with a really nice LED.

Rear Pioneers I have on stands on either side of the couch

Okay first off I have a new black leather sectional on its way, hopefully it gets here by next week. I mainly concentrated on upgrading my equiptment first and now I'm focused on getting rid of that uncomfortable excuse of a couch and chair.
My questions are: whats everyone think of my setup?
I'd like to replace my current subwoofer soon, I've had it for about 5 years now, its the only thing leftover from my previous setups. I bought it for 3 dollars at a yardsale so I'd say I got my use out of it. Its a 150 watts and I'd like to get something more powerful and possibly under 500 dollars. I decided against the Pioneer subwoofer that matches my other speakers because the specs actually rated it less powerful than my RCA. So suggestions please!
Next is would there be a better placement for the subwoofer than where it currently is?
Finally I was thinking of taking use of my 7.1 and adding another two rear Pioneer speakers will it make a difference? Can I have them mounted on the walls higher and point them down? Would I be better upgrading my subwoofer first or adding the additional surround speakers?
Thanks, Tim

 

[schan1269]

I'm trying to figure out why it is "off center"...
That room doesn't exactly promote the ability to add two more surrounds. Although two more exact, on the exact stand wouldn't be bad either. You'd have to move the surround to the sides, then the rear surrounds would go directly behind the couch.

 

[saabtastic17]

I have it offset on the corner because I purchased a new L-shaped sectional for in my room that runs along the window wall and where the existing couch was. I had a hard time finding a sectional or couch with a chaise that fit with out having to move the tv to accomidate for it. I didn't want another standard couch because it doesn't provide enought seating without adding a chair.
Yes thats what I meant I was thinking about adding two of the same Pioneer speakers to take advantage of the 7.1, if I was to do so what kind of spacing would I need between all of the rear surround speakers? Do I need to have them exactly same distance apart for it to sound balanced? When my couch is delivered I'll post a pic of it in the room cause I know it will clarify what I'm talking about lol. Also could use some ideas and tips on how to rid some rattle I seem to be having. I believe its the subwoofer vibrating my tv stand, but I don't know where would be a good place to put it at. I'm more of a car audio guy so I was thinking of attaching some dynamat strips to the feet of the subwoofer and the tv stand to see if that would help or not. Like I said I'm kinda just getting into home theater so I don't know if the basics of sound deadening a car is the same as in a home theater.

 

[schan1269]

First thing about subwoofers...
In theory, it goes where the "least null" point is. In reality it goes where you can put it that it has its best chance to do the job and not need "copious" amounts of auto-correct.
Dynamat on the sub for its feet would probably help. That might do the trick itself...but...
The point of the sub is to rattle stuff. There may be no help for the stand as I think it is just the nature of the type of stand you bought.
But, try...
1. Moving the sub along a long wall
2. Dynamat new "feet" for it
3. add Dynamat to the glass on the stand. I imagine the vibration is merely the glass where it sits on each point(how exactly to do that I don't know...I've never tried to Dynamat glass...)

 

[Type A]

Welcome to HTF Tim
Just a couple of things I can see.
First, your room could certainly benefit from some acoustic treatments. If on a budget you can make your own 2'X4'x4" acoustic panels for $40 each or they can be purchased for $80 each shipped. Do some research on youtube, and google search, 'home theater acoustic treatment', 'bass traps', 'sound absorbent panels' ect. Even info on small sound studios and near-field speaker applications will teach you the general principals behind why where and how to treat your home theater room. It is well worth the effort as the performance upgrade is considerable and its not a big outlay of cash for first reflection point treatments and bass traps. Do NOT use foam, as its a waste of time, your research will reveal this. I created my own panels:

Second, I would completely skip 7.1 and certainly upgrade your sub. Luckily $500 is a decent budget. Keep in mind that because youre living with your folks they will notice their son got a real sub! The key to a good sub (even more critical than speakers) is frequency response, and you want a sub that has meaningful output down to 20 Hz or lower for epic performance. By epic I mean accurate and not necessarily power. Dynamic power is important also but usually if the frequency response is there the dynamic power will be too. Even though there are specific numbers for how much of a sub you need, for a given room, I personally would completely ignore that and just get the best sub your budget will allow. I like Hsu subs as they have high level inputs. What this means is, perhaps in the future, if you ever want to set this sub up with just a pair of speakers you can run the speaker wires direct into the back of the sub and use the built in cross over as a 2.1 sound system. All of the other realistically priced subs with good performance only include a low level input, meaning youll always be stuck having to use an AVR that handles the crossover for you. While thats fine, I like the flexibility of being able to hook my speaker amp direct to the sub and then run my speakers from the sub, can come in very handy indeed. SVS makes nice subs also but they only have low level inputs.
Heres a guide for sub placement.

 

[saabtastic17]

First thing about subwoofers...
In theory, it goes where the "least null" point is. In reality it goes where you can put it that it has its best chance to do the job and not need "copious" amounts of auto-correct.
Dynamat on the sub for its feet would probably help. That might do the trick itself...but...
The point of the sub is to rattle stuff. There may be no help for the stand as I think it is just the nature of the type of stand you bought.
But, try...
1. Moving the sub along a long wall
2. Dynamat new "feet" for it
3. add Dynamat to the glass on the stand. I imagine the vibration is merely the glass where it sits on each point(how exactly to do that I don't know...I've never tried to Dynamat glass...)

The glass shelves have rubber suction cups that separate them and the metal stand so I imagine thats supposed to help prevent rattling and from the glass slipping. For now I think I'll take your advice and move the subwoofer to the far left wall as it spans the entire lenght of the room. Any idea which way I should face the port?

Welcome to HTF Tim
Just a couple of things I can see.
First, your room could certainly benefit from some acoustic treatments. If on a budget you can make your own 2'X4'x4" acoustic panels for $40 each or they can be purchased for $80 each shipped. Do some research on youtube, and google search, 'home theater acoustic treatment', 'bass traps', 'sound absorbent panels' ect. Even info on small sound studios and near-field speaker applications will teach you the general principals behind why where and how to treat your home theater room. It is well worth the effort as the performance upgrade is considerable and its not a big outlay of cash for first reflection point treatments and bass traps. Do NOT use foam, as its a waste of time, your research will reveal this. I created my own panels:
Second, I would completely skip 7.1 and certainly upgrade your sub. Luckily $500 is a decent budget. Keep in mind that because youre living with your folks they will notice their son got a real sub! The key to a good sub (even more critical than speakers) is frequency response, and you want a sub that has meaningful output down to 20 Hz or lower for epic performance. By epic I mean accurate and not necessarily power. Dynamic power is important also but usually if the frequency response is there the dynamic power will be too. Even though there are specific numbers for how much of a sub you need, for a given room, I personally would completely ignore that and just get the best sub your budget will allow. I like Hsu subs as they have high level inputs. What this means is, perhaps in the future, if you ever want to set this sub up with just a pair of speakers you can run the speaker wires direct into the back of the sub and use the built in cross over as a 2.1 sound system. All of the other realistically priced subs with good performance only include a low level input, meaning youll always be stuck having to use an AVR that handles the crossover for you. While thats fine, I like the flexibility of being able to hook my speaker amp direct to the sub and then run my speakers from the sub, can come in very handy indeed. SVS makes nice subs also but they only have low level inputs.
Heres a guide for sub placement.

Thanks for the suggestions on subwoofers I'm going to look into them here shortly along with acoustic treatments. My parents luckily are pretty cool with my system. My room is over top the garage and my dad planned in advance for my room to go "boom boom" as the floors and wall that are attached to the right side of my room have sound deadner in them. Plus generally one of them joins my friends/girlfriend and I when I have a movie night. Just watched the 2009?? Star Trek on Sunday and it was pretty epic on my home theater I have to say Have you ever used or had experiance with any Klipsch subwoofers? I work at Best Buy and generally get a decent discount on home theater stuff. I scored all my Pioneer speakers for 125 bucks and my tv for a 1000. I played around with the ten inch model quite often in store but, who knows what it will sound like in a smaller area. Anyways thanks with the tips so far

 

[Type A]

Have you ever used or had experiance with any Klipsch subwoofers? I work at Best Buy and generally get a decent discount on home theater stuff. I scored all my Pioneer speakers for 125 bucks and my tv for a 1000. I played around with the ten inch model quite often in store but, who knows what it will sound like in a smaller area. Anyways thanks with the tips so far

It was some time ago but I worked at BB myself so I know the discounts can be decent. Depends on the model as usually the stores only stock the smaller (lesser) subs. I know the models we carried at our store couldnt touch a $500 Hsu or SVS sub in frequency response or dynamic power, you really want 12" or better. What models do you have as an option?

 

[saabtastic17]

The only subs we really have that seem like they would actually be a upgrade is the Klipsch SW-450 its says 450 watts but I believe its actually like 200 rms, its 469.99 but I think we have a sale coming up plus we have a open box one and I get a discount so I could prolly get it for around 200ish which is way under budget We also got a MartinLogan Dynamo 500 returned but since we aren't a Magnolia dealer we have to ship it back to them but I could prolly buy it before it gets sent back. Its at the top of my budget new at 499.99 but open box its 459.99 and with discount and its not much on it for some reason I could get it for 429.99.
But... the subwoofer I'm really liking atm is that HSU VTF-1 MK2, its actually the cheapest brand new prior to shipping, looks to have nice tuning capability, RMS specs lead it to be the most powerful and it can hit 25 hz compared to other models I've looked at which are 29 and up. Also I think it had double ports in the back so you could close one or both off, but that might have been the SVS which they where all pretty much out of my budget range, I was thinking of possibly adding one or two of those ButtKicker things that work with the subwoofer to really make it feel like your in the movie. My uncle had either two or three in his larger sectional in his home theater with a Bose system a while back and it was so awesome, Jurassic Park was like the ultimate movie on that couch

 

[Type A]

I guess after careful consideration that performance below the 20 Hz range, or even below 25 Hz, will set you back closer to $600 and not the $500 I thought it was. Bummer, you can see that extra $100 really makes a difference, and that 25-18Hz is a significant loss. Takes your bass, IMO, from epic to decent. However, I suppose if I could could get that Klipsch for $200 I would jump on it, it got good reviews at $500 and it is a decent sub for what it is. However the Hsu VTF 1 would hit harder and faster, if I were going for the best within my maximum budget (which, I must admit, I always do) the Hsu would be a no-brainer. The dual ports are nice, both my VTF2 MK3s came with one plug for each sub. I have always ran them with one-port-plugged as two of these subs in an average room gives plenty of impact. Opening both ports on their subs will give you a bigger impact but does cost you the lowest frequencies one-port-plugged will give you. In your room I would run a VTF 1 with only one port open and go for the lowest bass as it will easily give you the impact you need for a room of that size.
Sorry, cant really help you with the buttkickers idea, they might not be a bad idea if your budget doesnt allow for epic subs. I spent $1200 on a pair of subs and that level of bass gives plenty of tactile effect all on their own.

 

[schan1269]

Maybe before you plunk down some cash on a new one...
Browse your local CL and Ebay(set it for "distance") and see what is out there...
My area...
http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/ele/3256321749.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/ele/3236999939.html (boy do I wish...I haven't spent that much on a PAIR of speakers in 15 years)
http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ele/3230785828.html (eh for $200...if $150, now you are talking)
If I wanted to build a box or IB...this would be a no-brainer...
http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ele/3255111679.html (essentially the same price from Parts Express...but you can have them today...I'd offer $80)

 

[saabtastic17]

I might step up my budget to the VTF-2 MK4 it says it can slam 18hz which would be pretty sweet as you said. I think one of those with ButtKickers would be epic. But I am looking around at used too. The one electronic store near me has a brand of subwoofer called Jamo, anyone hear of them before? It's a 12 inch subwoofer and can get down to 24hz. Its also on sale for 199.99 I was kinda skeptical about it but it sounded pretty nice in the store, they put in Transformers 2 for me and then The Expendables and it seemed pretty nice definatly out preformed the Boston Acoustics and Onkyo they had. Just don't know how it would sound at home and they have a strict no return policy so I can't take it home and try it to see if it will sound good or not.

 

[schan1269]

Jamo(pronounced Yamo) is another bought "and soon will be killed" by Klipsch brand...
Jamo, prior to Klipsch involvement, is great stuff.

 

[saabtastic17]

This one looks pretty new so you saying to prolly junk? I think I know what your saying, I used to love Phoenix Gold products for car audio then they got bought out by Audiovox or someone and started making really shitty products for a few years and now are finally starting to make nice stuff again cause MTX or Alpine bought them. But everyone still talks shit on em still so you wont see one of their amps in my Audi for quite sometime. I don't wanna buy the sub and have it fall apart on me lol, I did find a gently used HSU VTF MK3 on Craigslist for 200 bucks but I'm waiting on a reply.

 

[saabtastic17]

Also I just finished the one of two movie poster light boxes I'm making for my double sided Transformers posters and thought Id put a few pictures up of the finished product. I think it came out pretty good, I spent like 85 dollars in total so I'm quite happy. Sorry for the shitty pictures my iPhone doesn't work well in low lighting.

I have to get a better camera soon, it looks way better in person.

 

[saabtastic17]

Found a really nice condition well taken care of VTF2 MK3 close to me on CL for 300, he said he will take 250 for it, comes with a Monster Audio Subwoofer cable(I already have one but I'm not gonna complain about a free cord) sound like a good deal? Type A you said you spend 1200 on two of those so they where 600 a piece, and he said the subwoofer is only about 2 years old. Also I got my sectional so I think it really completes the room.

 

[schan1269]

Before you wait too long and somebody else takes it...use this older one as your benchmark...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HSU-Research-VTF-2-MK-2-Subwoofer-Speaker-/360487808449?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item53eebf6dc1

 

[saabtastic17]

We already agreed that I want it I'm just waiting on a email back for when he would want to meet up and where. He sent me some pictures and it looks brand new.

 

[Jim Mcc]

You're going to buy it without even hearing it? Good luck.

 

[schan1269]

Buying "unheard" is never a good idea on CL. If this were Ebay and "local pick-up", no problem.

 

[saabtastic17]

When I asked him about meeting up I mentioned I'd like to meet at his house possibly to listen to it, but he hasn't responded yet. It takes him a day or two between emails so I'll prolly know Monday/Tuesday. If not and he wants to meet some where halfway between were I live and York I'll have my power converter and my old Sony reciever in the trunk of the Audi to make sure the woofer and amplifier isn't damaged. I'd rather meet at his house thought. I don't like buying stereo equipment if I can't hear it either. Hoping he agrees to just meeting at his house, testing a home theater subwoofer out of the trunk of a car looks odd in a Costco parking lot.