New E250p, somewhat disappointed and need advice.

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Sean Moon, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    I am upgrading from an old 8in Kenwood HTIB sub that has treated me right for four years now. It was a great sub, powerful and great sound.

    I got the new JBL E250P tonight, and it is a beast of power compared to the Kenwood, but it does not seem as boomy or powerful as the kenwood. It seems more subtle and subdued. Why would that be?
     
  2. Fred_Krampits

    Fred_Krampits Stunt Coordinator

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    Here's how the sub was described in a cnet review:

    We expected and heard room-shaking deep bass from the E250P, but what really impressed us was the sub's deft control on the lowest octaves. While the mighty kick drum on Neil Young's Red Rocks Live concert DVD can sound thick and boomy on lesser competitors, the E250P cleanly executed each gutsy thump. The subwoofer blended seamlessly with the Northridge E90 tower speakers; together they produced a mammoth sound easily capable of filling rooms of 600 square feet and larger.

    Link:
    http://reviews.cnet.com/JBL_Northrid...2.html?tag=top

    I'm running mine off of a Pioneer VSX-55TXi using LFE, it blends in well with the E100 towers.

    How is your's connected to the reciver? LFE?
     
  3. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    it is connected through lfe. When watching a movie tonight the bass seemed more from my mains than the sub, a total opposite from before, so I guess it is mating seamlessly with the other speakers. Tomorrow, I put LOTR on it to truly test it
     
  4. Fred_Krampits

    Fred_Krampits Stunt Coordinator

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    Sean:

    What type of receiver do you have?

    On my Pioneer I have the fronts set to large and the sub set to plus.
     
  5. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    i have a pioneer 811, I have the fronts on large, my sub at plus as well. The old kenwood was boomy and powerful. This one is more subtle, but when needs be, it was shaking the place, but didnt seem to have volume, just wall shaking. is that right?

    Of course, I have the volume on the sub up only about halfway. When I crank it its terrifying! When I did test tones with the receiver it wasnt doing much, but when I did the THX crossover test, the stuff on the walls shook and the cover came off the sub, at only half volume level. Tomorrow's test of movies should let me know things.
     
  6. Fred_Krampits

    Fred_Krampits Stunt Coordinator

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    Sean:

    I got a DVD called "Trinity and Beyond: The Atomic Bomb Movie", I rave about it all the time.

    I cranked it up during a thunderous H-Bomb blast in the movie (which is in DD 5.1) and every picture or trophy hanging anywhere in the house was cockeyed afterwards.

    On "Predator" DTS track, when they attacked the rebel camp it was booming loud. Same thing on "U-571" on the depth charge scenes.

    Put your ear near it sometime when you think it's not doing much and you'll get a idea of how it's working. I do keep my volume at 2/3 though.

    Personally I would rather have it all bend in and hear seperation only when it's intended.
     
  7. Greg Fullerton

    Greg Fullerton Auditioning

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    "Boomy" is not a term that's used on good subwoofers. Perhaps you have the crossover know turned down too far or all the way. Check to see that it's sitting somewhere around 60 Hz or so to start with. You made a step in the right direction, now you just have to tune it a bit.
     
  8. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    my receivers crossover is set at 75hz, the lowest it will go. I am about to go test my fav movies now. Be back with a report.
     
  9. DavidCooper

    DavidCooper Stunt Coordinator

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    If 75 is your crossover and your having problems you really should set all your speakers to "small" not "large". This would enable all the low stuff to be directed toward your sub and not your mains.

    Also...as Greg noted "boomey" is not considered a good characteristic of a sub. Accurate bass isn't supposed to be noticeable while watching movies etc. It is there when it needs to be there with authority. Part of your situation it seems is that your really used to a "boomey" and bloated inaccurate bass sound.

    I would try changing the speakers settings to small and keeping your crossover right where it is and see if that makes a difference.
     
  10. LaMarcus

    LaMarcus Screenwriter

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    He beat me to it.

    I have the same receiver you have and a SVS. When I have my speakers set to large and sub to plus, it's a total waist of sub with this receiver. It's like the sub isn't even on. I'd like my room speakers to put out bass too, but with the limitations of this receiver, it's just not going to happen.

    So turn the crossover on your sub off, leave the crossover on your receiver where it is, and watch that sub come alive!!!!
     
  11. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    Alrighty. Now that all the roomates are gone and its not 10 at night, I got to test this puppy. As you all said, it isnt really noticable at all, until it needs to be.

    I was used to the boomy bass. It was what I first had with HT. In Star Wars, I could always hear the lightsabers hum and feel it, now its just subtle all the time, not noticable. But my god when they hit, its deep. I dont really hear the sub anymore much as feel it and hear all the stuff on my walls rattle.

    And to test it, I put in FOTR where Sauron gets killed. That scene always made my old sub bottom out quick and increase in volume. Here it just went seamlessly to shaking my pant legs.

    I set my speakers to large, where they were on small before. I am going to experiment with small/large settings. My receiver only xover at 100, not 75, so that was my mistake.

    I also just test LOTR:Two Towers where the wall explodes. I always used that as a bass demo. It is even more terrifying now. Honestly the only thing I dont like about this sub so far is that I fear for the swords on the walls around my couch, as they all rattle when this puppy gets rolling.

    So this is what my sub should have been doing all along? Been subtle and unnoticable, then all of a sudden loosen my bowels? [​IMG] I need to test more stuff, but so far loving it. Thank you for the advice gentlemen.
     
  12. Fred_Krampits

    Fred_Krampits Stunt Coordinator

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  13. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    A lot of speakers are intentionally designed with what is called a midbass "hump" to create the illusion of lots of bass. This hump is usually placed around the 100-150Hz area & I will bet the Kenwood has such a design for its 8" woofer.

    My acoustic-suspension Baby Advents w/6.5" woofers from 1984 had such a design though you could not really say they were boomy--I would not have bought them otherwise--instead they sounded rather "full" or "rich" (the Babys cost $140/pair back then & when competing in the budget-level arena there will always be compromises). When some reviewers tested them, they were actually capable of generating usable/feelable bass down to almost 45Hz but you had to use a lot of power to get them to do this. By a lot I mean instead of say, 10 watts for a conventional speaker I had to use almost 20, but my Pioneer SX-6 could put out up to 60 clean watts so this was no big deal.

    Or: the Kenwood might just lack enough internal damping material and the woofer's sound is allowed to bounce around the inside of the enclosure & finally exit via the woofer itself or the port, and since it is exiting later than the original sound sent by the amp, this causes a boomy effect.

    When I sold mobile audio equipment we had people all the time calling us up after they bought their woofers saying how crappy their sub box sounded. First thing we asked was did you use any damping material? Most of the time there was a pause........then, "What's damping material?"

    So yes as others have already mentioned, "real" bass--in other words the truly deep and clean variety--sounds different from budget-bass.
     
  14. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    Thank you all for your time and help in this. My sub is kicking ass and taking names now. Never realized just how muddy my old one was until this one. Just clean power from it. It just kinda sits there, adding body, but then I feel the room shake, but cant tell its doing anything......I just feel it instead of hearing it. It got its workout watching Return of the King today.

    Thanks all.
     

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