New CSS SX10 sub

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Shawn Solar, Oct 11, 2003.

  1. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    New 10" sub using XBL^2.

    specs:
    Fs-27hz
    Re-3.3ohms
    Qms-3.4
    Qes-.48
    Qts-.43
    Vas-79L
    Sd-345cm^2
    Bl-9.09
    Le-.9mH
    Xmax-18mm
    Pmax-300Watts

    whatcha all think. Its pretty decent 10incher. Good for over 105db in a ported box at a low 20hz-25hz. sealed is fairly decent in a 1cube box. details found at
    http://www.creativesound.ca/
     
  2. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2001
    Messages:
    876
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It looks like it would perform similar to the 10" Titanic Mk2 but in a larger box. So it doesn't need as much power to reach xmax. I don't really think that's worth the extra $40 over the Titanic.

    Plus, the whole reason for buying a 10 is to fit in a smaller box. But the SX10 wants about the same box size as the 12" Dayton DVC. The DVC has significantly more output potential and costs less than the Titanic!

    The SX10 certainly looks like a competent woofer. But at $180 (introductory pricing) I can't think of any reason to prefer it over what's already available for less money.
     
  3. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I wonder how the XBL^2 technology would affect the performance vs the others mentioned. I mean I'm sure the price is the way it is due to the licencing.
     
  4. Bob Reimer

    Bob Reimer Agent

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2000
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is a high sound quality, low distortion (less than 4% from 25 Hz up at 94dB)woofer which works very well in our 14" cubes. In one of the kits it is an exceptional value.

    Bob
     
  5. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2001
    Messages:
    876
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm sure its no slouch. And maybe with the XBL2 motor it will have less distortion at high excursion. But the Titanics are also very impressive. I've never heard any complaints about their sound quality. But I do occaisionally hear from somebody with a sealed 10 Tit (the Vance Dickason kit) wanting a little more low end output. Makes sense - you can't really expect even a fairly high performance 10 to really shake the house in a sealed box. The SX10 won't be any different (except it'll typically be in a bigger box).

    The high performance 12's fair better with around 50% more cone area. Consider that even the mighty 10" Brahma, with its incredible 27mm one-way excursion, doesn't quite equal the 12" Titanic Mk2 in total displacement.
     
  6. DanWiggins

    DanWiggins Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 1999
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi all,

    A flat BL curve is a definite advantage for a driver. It reduces many things, including THD, IMD, and BL compression. It's not just the absolute stroke that's important, but how you get there.

    Like with cars - would you rather have an car with an engine that starts at 100 HP at 1000 RPM and peaks at 350 HP at 5250 RPM, or a car that starts with 300 HP at 1000 RPM and maintains that same HP all the way to 520 RPM.

    The "work potential" of a driver is the area under the BL curve. The flatter this BL curve, the more force you maintain over excurison, the more work you can do. The more accurate the output. And in terms of dynamic THD, a flat BL driver gains a ~25-33% advantage in "stroke". That is, a driver with a flat BL and a linear Xmage of 12mm would have the same dynamic THD as a standard parabolic-shaped BL curve driver with an Xmag of 16mm.

    For example, we've measured Bob's SX10 in a 30 liter box, and found that it produced 94+ dB SPL from 25 Hz and up with 3% THD. This is performance slightly better than our Rava, which uses the Shiva Mark III and a 67 liter sealed box. In terms of clean output, a flat BL driver simply beats standard drivers. And is why we're working to move all our drivers to this motor technology. It offers significant advances in low distortion output, well beyond what a single number gives you.

    As far as displacement goes, a Brahma 10 was reviewed in the August/September issue of Mobile Entertainment, including full DUMAX measurements. Linear displacement was found to be 103 cubic inches. The Titanic 12" Mark II comes in at 95 cubic inches. The Brahma 10 does out-displace the Titanic Mark II 12" driver. And with the flat BL, should enjoy a healthy 2-3 dB more output in terms of dynamic THD.

    Dan Wiggins
    Adire Audio
     
  7. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I will say I just built this driver in the 14" piano black cabinet with the Hypex.As well as there was one at Vsca in the GR room.Well I am just stunned at the output this driver in this cabinet has.Just nuts to say the least for a 14" cube for the price.
    Email Danny from GR he still has the one from VSCA and ask how it works.He will give you his advice.It will be going to the DIY event he is holding.

    Al
     
  8. AllanRW

    AllanRW Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  9. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2001
    Messages:
    876
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I stand corrected ... apparently on several points. I'm sure I didn't use the Dumax Measurements from Mobile Entertainment as I don't read that mag.

    "For example, we've measured Bob's SX10 in a 30 liter box, and found that it produced 94+ dB SPL from 25 Hz and up with 3% THD. This is performance slightly better than our Rava"

    I'm not too surprised at this. Low distortion is expected with these excellent motors. But most of us still enjoy the extra displacement of some of the other drivers even if they stray from the 3% THD limit you're using. At high volume levels the distortion would be very difficult to identify in my house with all the windows and pictures shaking.

    "The Titanic 12" Mark II comes in at 95 cubic inches."

    Hmm. I was using the numbers from their white paper:

    SD = 77.7 in^2
    Xmax = 0.75 in each way
    2 * 77.7 * 0.75 = 116.55 in^3

    Are these not the right numbers to use?
     
  10. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 1999
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Any suggestions for a small PR reflex box?
     
  11. Bob Reimer

    Bob Reimer Agent

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2000
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, we're looking at both ported and dual 10" (BXP10) PR alignments. Stay tuned!

    Bob
     
  12. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was also wondering about the BXP10 pr. I couldn't find any T/S for it or how much mass it could handle. I was thinking sunfire killer[​IMG]
     
  13. Bob Reimer

    Bob Reimer Agent

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2000
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here are the parameters for the BXP10:

    Sd: 308 cm^2
    Fp: 16 Hz
    Mms: 226 grams
    Cms: 0.43 mm/N
    Vap: 56 liters
    Xsus: 22 mm one way

    I think the box will have to be quite a bit larger with the 2 PRs.

    Later
    Bob
     
  14. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 1999
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hmm, I can't get a good-looking alignment out of the pairing...
     
  15. Bob Reimer

    Bob Reimer Agent

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2000
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'll have to check with Adire; thought that we would have to add some mass to the PRs?

    Bob
     
  16. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 1999
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah, I played with Mms a bit. Any idea about the max Mms?
    Also, got a Qmp value?
     
  17. DanWiggins

    DanWiggins Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 1999
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ryan posted:
     
  18. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Alright,Thats better[​IMG] I can get somewhere with 700-800 gram range.[​IMG]
     
  19. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 1999
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks, Dan. Shawn, post an alignment you like that I can run myself, I can't get one I like.
     
  20. DanWiggins

    DanWiggins Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 1999
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Try 2 cubic feet, 100% stuffed with polyfill. Use two PRs, and add 3 ounces to each one. Should tune you to 23 Hz and yield a pretty good in-room result.

    Dan Wiggins
    Adire Audio
     

Share This Page