New Adire 15" sealed sub: Daeva (1 Viewer)

[Jack Gilvey]

http://forums.acoustic-visions.com/i...ct=ST&f=4&t=71

And that's all I know.

A sealed Tempest with a good amp can get as low as the source needs with all the low-group-delay "musicality" that Rava-lovers are familiar with.

 

[Joey_N]

Hmmm....that might be what I decide to go with if I don't decide to go DIY or Brian/Kyle.

 

[james e m]

Sounds cool, keep us updated.
James

 

[Brian Bunge]

Jack,

Since Dan said a 22" cube, I'm guessing it's somewhere around 122L or so internally. Isn't that one of the Tempest sealed alignments? With the DT300 amp, it gives great user flexiblity in the amount of boost to use and at what frequency.

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

If it is a Tempest and a DT300 amp, why the insanely high price tag? If they're using off the shelf parts that could be purchased for $325 retail, shouldn't the actual cost be closer to perhaps $500? The post from Dan at Adire says "nice finishes" but a $375 sealed box would need to be Brazilian black ash trimmed in gold to be worth the price they're asking.

I know it would be a great sub isn't really meant for people who would rather build it themselves, but the economics just don't make sense to me. $325 in parts, $30 in materials, and a weekend would give you the same performance. I'm sure people will buy them, just not me.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

WinISD Pro shows 122L gives a Qtc of .73, so stuffing would bring it down to maximally flat, maybe even lower than .7. The boost functions on the DT300 are very cool (although the shallow rolloff may well be flat to 20Hz in many rooms as-is), and the crossover looks great. 300 real watts with 3dB headroom into a Tempest should work nicely.

Stephen...I'm assuming that the amp is the DT300 based on the description, this hasn't been confirmed. I have no idea what the actual price "should" be. I don't even know what the price "will" be.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Stephen,

Well, the Dharman is $600 and is smaller than this sub will be. Other than the price of the ports there really isn't much discrepancy between the cost of materials for it vs. this Tempest based sub. What do you think Adire's cost is for materials? I bet they're building this sub for well under what it would cost you for the driver and amp alone.

It'll still kick the crap out of any retail sub in this price range. But you're right, if you can build it yourself you can save a lot of money, or get a much nicer finish.

 

[Cam S]

If they're using off the shelf parts that could be purchased for $325 retail, shouldn't the actual cost be closer to perhaps $500?

The DT300 amp is worth $279 alone, and the Tempest is $150, which totals $429, so I'm not too sure where you got the $325 figure from.

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

I guess i low-balled the price of the amp a bit... i may have had their 250 watt plate amp in mind... but still $429 is what joe schmoe would pay for the amp and driver. Adire's cost would probably be 1/3 of that. If they were charging $500 for a pre-built sealed tempest sub, then it would make alot more sense to me than paying $700 for a sub you could build EXACTLY yourself for $450 when they are probably building for $150. I know you have to have a substantial markup to make money on something in a niche market, but close to a 500% markup is truly insane (forgive the somewhat sketchy cost estimates i'm working with).

 

[Mark Seaton]

Stephen,

First, you are right, a true 5x markup would be quite out of wack. I can tell you for certain that it costs a lot more than $150 to build that sub, which we haven't even seen yet. Try multiplying that number. Likewise, I'm not sure what you are thinking with the box, as real veneers can add significantly to the cost, and I don't know anyone who would build a cabinet for $100. Take a look at what Kyle from Acoustic Visions sells various cabinets for. There is hardly anything out of wack with the pricing here, and Adire has always been quite fair in any offers they have made.

As an example, in the case of the Rava, at $399, I could barely justify building one as I would save very little in buying the parts to copy it. The skill and time involved to assemble and finish the enclosure, and the design decisions made in the product all hold value. For it to be offered for less not much more than even a kit form, it quite remarkable.

I simply don't follow your logic as to what would be a "fair" price. If the items are priced appropriately, what justifies that the designed, assembled, and finished product should cost less than the sum of its parts? I would hope that you could build a copy for less cash outlay than the finished product, else I would think the individual components are likely overpriced. Classically, any DIYer with a clue could meet or exceed the performance of products costing 2x his material costs. In that light, any of the Adire subs are a steal. When I look at this upcoming sub, I see $429 in hardware, plus a finished cabinet which would likely sell for $250-350. Do the math and you fall right around the aforementioned $700.

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

A cost esimator's tip: "If in doubt, go high".

$280 for amp
$130 for Tempest
$70 for MDF and veneer and finish
= $500 for materials

That leaves $200 for the labor.

At a contractor's rate of $65 an hour that means they only get paid for 3 hours of work to end up with $700.

They may have a CNC that can pre-drill holes and everything but even then, it could take a while to assemble and veneer. I honestly don't think they are ripping people off and there is no way $700 retail is a 500% markup.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Stephen,

If you think it's over-priced, don't ever go shopping for furniture or jewelry. They have the highest markups out there.

 

[David Lorenzo]

I don't think it is overpriced in the slightest bit. It is actually right around what I thought a sealed Tempest sub would cost if Adire ever built one. When I saw the thread title I thought to myself, FINALLY.

Now for the Tempest Dharman equivalent...

 

[Robert_Gaither]

The thing also not taken into account is the cost of tools, place to use/store them, time spent building (some out there might make more than the carpenter so the labor is not an expense but actually a wiser investment not to do), potential medical bill (for those not to lucky as any tool that can remove wood does much better against flesh, in addition to possible time missed working as well in the event of an accident), skill or lack thereof, and of course time.

In addition to all that, there will be very few subs to compete at it's price range and seems to be only availible from other internet indirect dealers SVS, HSU, VMPS, and ACI etc and Brian, Kyle, and Stryke.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

So what "should" something like the SVS 16-46CS ($479) cost if subjected to the same analysis? No amp (!), a decent driver, a wrapped fiberboard tube, a port, endcaps, etc. How about the unpowered Hsu 1220HO ($500)?

 

[Kyle Richardson]

Nope, not overpriced in the least bit. You just dont want to know what the raw prices are for other production type subs...you will see this is actually a VERY good value.

Yes, it uses a DT300 amplifier and the Tempest for those that were still wondering.

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

I see all of your points. My biggest mis-que was underestimating the cost of the amp. Still, I guess once you actually do a DIY sub then it doesn't make sense to buy commercial any more. My EBS Shiva and 250watt amp cost me a total of $240 and it looks great to boot (satin black paint w/ stained wood trim and an inset glass top). Granted i got the driver used for $75, but even at closer to $300 the price/performance ratio is astounding. If i ever feel the need for a better sub (which looks to be a long way down the road for me), NOTHING but DIY seems like it will make sense to me.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Still, I guess once you actually do a DIY sub then it doesn't make sense to buy commercial any more... If i ever feel the need for a better sub (which looks to be a long way down the road for me), NOTHING but DIY seems like it will make sense to me.

That I'd certainly agree with. For non DIY-ers, though, it's an amazing bargain considering the over-priced dreck that's out there.

 

[Arron H]

Maybe I should sell my Rava $700 seems preety good for a Rava/Dharman, errr, Daeva!

 

[Chip E]

Hey guy's,

I'm in the market for a new sub within the next few weeks.. Been using an original 20-39PC for almost two years now. I'm building a decent size room in my basement for my HT gear, computer, etc.. The dimensions are roughly (finished) 20' X 15' with the ceiling height divided. Half the room will have almost 8' ceiling height, the other half (where i'll have the couch) will be about 7'. I've got roughly $1500.00 to spend on a sub. I DO NOT want to build a sub Any suggestions ? Maybe a powered PC Ultra ? Something from Adire ? Whats the most sub i can get be it available now or, in the near future for that amount of money ? Thanks !