Need some tips on a DIY cable I have to make

Discussion in 'Accessories, Cables, and Remotes' started by ZoranM, Dec 12, 2003.

  1. ZoranM

    ZoranM Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi to everyone, first time poster here...

    First off, a quick thank you to everyone for providing an unbelievable wealth of information and ideas for HT projects.

    Now to my problem, I am in the last half of construction of my HT (should be done by mid January)I picked up my Epson S1 two days ago. I also have an HK dvd25 DVD player. I would like to connect my Dvd player to the projector with component cable, but my S1 only has a VGA in. Also the run is about 25 ft. from player to projector. I would also like to use RG6 for this cable. I was hoping maybe someone else has tried this successfully and they may be able to provide some insight. I have read most of the provided links here for making component cable from RG6, but haven't seen any for component to VGA over RG6.

    Thanks in advance for any help that may be provided.

    Cheers,

    Zoran

    P.S.

    Special thank you to Erik Farstad from my wife, after she saw your Home Theater setup she ran out and bought the Cranberry Zing you used to put on our walls.
     
  2. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    1) Does the S1 support Component signal (Y Cb Cr) signal on it's VGA connector. Some projectors do, some dont (the ones that do use some of the unused pins on the DB15 connector to carry the component signal- although which pins sometiems varies, so you would have to know that too).

    2) Know that, of course, Y Cb Cr and RGBHV signal are DIFFERENT, so if your projector doesn't support component directly on it's DB15 connector, then an "adapter" won't do anything-- as the signal will need to be converted to RGBHV, just a different in cable types will make no difference.
     
  3. ZoranM

    ZoranM Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Vince, I believe the S1 does support Component signal (Y Cb Cr) signal on it's VGA connector.

    There is a breakout cable that Epson sells for component to VGA that seems to only look like a short cable withe 15 pin connector an one side and a component cable on the other side.

    Also after looking through the pdf manual on Epsons site, it dosen't mention anything about needing a converter when it shows how to set up. It show the VGA input label as computer/component input.

    It also says the projector can accept either Component signal (Y Cb Cr) "or" (Y Pb Pr)signal on it's VGA connector to match the signals from the video equipment.

    Don't know if this is helpful or not.
    Thanks for looking at this for me.

    Cheers,

    Zed
     
  4. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Well, i will say this... you CAN get the pin out diagram and attempt to build the connector- but doing so with RG6 lines will be a PAIN in the butt.

    If you choose to go this route, step one would be to find a diagram of how the S1 uses component on VGA connector-- there won't be a "commercial" adapter available, aside from the cable you mentioned direct from them... you would have to find the pinout and wire the DB15 yourself based on the diagram.

    This will be tough to do trying to use runs of rg6... I personally shy away from building ANYTHING with DB15, as the effort needed will be 10 times more than buying commecial cost.

    You might find it easier to use the commerciall made cable, or to get a transcoder to convert the signals.

    -vince
     
  5. ZoranM

    ZoranM Stunt Coordinator

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    I contacted Epson Canada (I'm in Edmonton) and they want $150 dollars (that's more than an 1/8th of the cost of the S1 Pj) for the cable, which would eat up a huge chunk of my cable money for all my other equipment.

    Next I'm going to try getting throught to Epson Tech support to see if the can provide me with a pin out diagram (long shot, but who knows what could happen). If that fails maybe I'll have to consider using my laptop as a dvd player (really don't like that idea, the HK is a really good player).

    thanks for the tips, I'll keep updating as things progress

    cheers,

    Zed
     
  6. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Well, you should discover HTPC- which is the BESt way to get top quality DVD video from a system into a high res projector!

    -vince
     
  7. ZoranM

    ZoranM Stunt Coordinator

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    LOL, I know I would love to get a good HTPC system going but that's not a financial option right now. In about a year (take that long to save up after all this HT spending) I planned on building a dedicated HTPC server for the basement. (I currently use a P3 533mhz. machine for the house MP3/Divx Server, but that's not going to cut it for a dedicated DVD HTPC)

    So right now all I have is a Compaq Evo 160 Laptop (P3 1.2 ghz, 256 mb ram (133mhz.), dvd drive, 4x AGP 8 MB. ATI Mobility Radeon Graphics card, 20 gb HD) So I don't know if that will be sufficient enough for a true 480p signal to the projector (with no skips or degradation).

    It's only the video I'm concerned about as I have an Extigy for the laptop to get the digital audio to my receiver.

    Cheers,

    Zed

    *****edit*****

    Also no component to vga means no XBOX in 720p [​IMG]
     
  8. ZoranM

    ZoranM Stunt Coordinator

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    After some searching I found a link to a site where someone showed how to create Component to VGA cables using utp Cat5 cable.

    I can't post the link do to the 15 post min. Is anyone familiar with this? Would this be an option for my problem mentioned in my previous posts? Has anyone tried this method (component to VGA over cat5)? If so what were the results? Also if successful was ot with UTP (unshielded) or STP (shielded) cat5?

    Thanks in Advance for any tips,hints,suggestions or feedback.

    Cheers,

    Zed
     
  9. ZoranM

    ZoranM Stunt Coordinator

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    Also to add to my last post, if it is possible to make the component to vga cable with Cat5, should I make a 25 foot cable or a 2-3 foot cable and use a 25 foot vga extension with it. (which would make it easier to connect to the PC when necassary).

    TIA,

    Zed
     
  10. KurtBJC

    KurtBJC Agent

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    Actually, to my knowledge, everybody uses the same pinout for component on the DB15. Instead of using some unused pins, what they generally do is use the R,G and B lines (which are, simply enough, pins 1, 2 and 3) to be Pr, Y, and Pb (i.e., the Red, Green and Blue conductors in the component video set). The grounds for these pins are pins 6, 7 and 8 respectively. Some manufacturer may use a nonstandard pinout, but that's the only one I've encountered--so ordinarily a "standard" VGA/RGBHV breakout can be used, just leaving the sync lines unconnected.

    I'd agree with Vince's view that getting RG6 in there isn't going to be a very pleasant chore...this is a job for miniature cable or for a breakout adapter. Soldering these even with suitable-sized cable (I do 'em all the time) is very unpleasant, and if you're not already good with a soldering iron, it'll be triply so. Strain relief on these is important because miniature cable is not very stress-tolerant. Use a temperature-controlled iron if possible, with the smallest tip you can find.

    As for running it over CAT5--well, over a very short distance that may work acceptably, but the impedance is wrong, the line is really suitable for balanced signals rather than unbalanced, and there's no shield. The upside, though, is that the cable would be really easy to solder into the connector, since you're dealing with little solid wires rather than stranded or braided stuff. If you've got to go 25 feet, I would use a high-quality VGA cable (coaxial inner construction is a must here) for the main run and keep the CAT5 stuff as short as humanly possible.
     
  11. ZoranM

    ZoranM Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Vince and Kurt!

    I'm going to attempt the Cat5 breakout cable in the next day or two. I'll post the results when I'm done.

    On a side note would my laptop (with the spec provided in my previous post) be a acceptable substitute to the progressive scan dvd player?

    Thanks again

    cheers,

    Zed
     
  12. ZoranM

    ZoranM Stunt Coordinator

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    ****Update to my cable problem****

    So I attempted a component to vga cable last nite. I used a 3 foot length of component cable (coaxial) and a 3 foot length of shielded VGA cable and wired it up by twisting the wires together (temporary trial setup I will solder when I'm done testing) I connected my the cables like so:

    pins 1 and 6 to red and red/ground
    pins 2 and 7 to green and green/ground
    pins 3 and 8 to blue and blue/gound

    the rest of the wires I snipped the ends off and taped back.

    I then connected a panasonic s35 progressive scan dvd player to my Epson s1. I turned everything on and it past the first test (nothing broke). I put in Episode 2 (Attack of the merchandise) and by default the source on the S1 was on "computer", but the picture was all green, so I pressed the source button and it changed to "computer - Y Cb Cr" and the picture was working in all the colors, but seemed a little squished in proportions. I pressed source again and it changed to "computer - Y Pb Pr" and now colors were good and proportion looked good.

    (I should mention I am not sure if the order was "computer - Y Cb Cr" and then "computer - Y Pb Pr" or vice versa so the squished problem may have been from the other signal.)

    There is however a problem I think, I was watching dvd's with Powerdvd from the laptop through the VGA last week and the picture was perfect (nice colors, really crisp).

    But when the DVD was playing throught the Panasonic through my new breakout cable, it seemed soft for lack of a better word. I thought maybe it was just a tiny bit out of focus, but after playing with the focus ring I couldn't sharpen it up anymore. My question is could this be a slight ghosting, should I have wired up the other wires at all or should I have connected the sheilding or bare grounding wire from the vga cable to anything? Or was I just spoiled by the laptop? Any tips or suggestions would be great. Other then that the breakout cable attempt seems to have worked.

    Thanks for all the help I was given in the earlier posts.

    I will continue updating as I work out the "problems"

    Cheers,

    Zed
     
  13. DaveLenhert

    DaveLenhert Stunt Coordinator

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    I usually agree with Vince on most of the DIY cable issues and today is no exception. I absoutly agree that making a HD15 termination for a component cable isn't easy and takes lots of effort and 3 hands. Furthermore, as Vince suggested the HTPC, I absoutly agree and would suggest that you USE that P3-533Mhz pc for a DVD player. Most 'modern' video cards have built-in DVD acceleration so they can be played on a 'weak' CPU. My HTPC is an AMD Athlon Thunderbird 'A-core' 700Mhz with 256 MB of RAM and an Nvidia GeForce2 GTS works very well and its CPU usage is less then 30%. The only time you need serious CPU power is when you try and apply post-processing image 'enhancement' techniques. The most common are DScaler & FDDShow. The software player that I use is TheaterTek and the only addon that I do use is ReClock, to keep the video and audio in sync. SERIOUSLY, look into the HTPC option, the differences between my HTPC and DVD are VERY significant, so much so I don't use my DVD player anymore.

    Think about it!!

    -Dave
     
  14. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Just sounds like you're seeing the difference between a scaled output from a pc versus a standlone dvd player.

    Keep in mind that any "digital" projector has a panel with a native resolution- meaning that, for example, my projector has a 1024x768 native panel. If I feed it 480p from a video source, its internal scaler makes it 1024x768, and it looks like dogdoo. It is soft, and completely lacking in defintion.

    However, using a htpc to scale the image using a good set of filters and a good video card- it feeds a compatible image to the projector which the PJ doesnt monkey with, resulting in a MUCH better picture.

    It sounds like your cables are fine, but you've discovered the point of htpc...

    welcome to step one on a long addicitive road. once you see the other side, it's impossible to go back.
     

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