Need help with DIY Sonotube sub questions

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brett Loomis, Jul 8, 2002.

  1. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, I am ready to step up and build one of these suckers but I have some limiting factors related to my current room as follows:

    Subs must go in front right and left corners of stage area where projection screen is mounted on wall and behind Klipsch Chorus II mains and KLF-C7 center are located.

    I am limited due to screen size (52"x 92") on how big the subs can be. Some quick measurements tell me that I can fit a Sonotube of approximately 20" wide/diameter X 39" Tall. I could go higher but would rather not. Width/diameter can not be greater than 21" or sub will block screen on left or right.

    I would like to build two (2) sonotubes of the approximate dimensions above. One for each front corner of my stage main screen wall.

    Please see my existing HT setup with two Klipsch subs (KSW-15 in front and KSW-100 in rear) at my custom link below.(lots of pictures of the entire room and construction process).

    Questions:

    1) Is there a plan for a Sonotube sub of the dimensions I desire above and would it be OK to build two of them and place them in the front left and right corners or would this cause acoustic problems/cancellations, etc.??

    2) What size driver(s) should I be considering based on the tube size listed above (20" x 39" approx)?

    3) What brand/Model drivers

    4) What plans would suit my size or room limitations

    Thanks all for your advice/input in advance.

    Brett (see my link below for detailed pics of my current HT)
     
  2. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    "2) What size driver(s) should I be considering based on the tube size listed above (20" x 39" approx)?"
    "3) What brand/Model drivers"
    The Adire Tempest (15 inch) and Shiva (12 inch) are the most often recommended around here. If we allow 6 inches vertically for endcaps, legs and base then the gross internal volume is 6 cu ft. Still have to account for driver and port volumes. Probably not big enough to do ported Tempests, especially if you're shooting for an EBS alignment. You could do a pair of low-Q sealed Tempests, though.
    If money is no object then a pair of sealed Blueprint 1503's with an EQ or Linkwitz Transform and some serious amplification would get the job done.
    There's certainly enough room for ported Shivas. But if you're worried they won't have quite enough output then you could step up to the 12 inch Titanic Mk2 from www.partsexpress.com
    Have you considered an infinite baffle sub? I'm thinking 4 Tempests could satisfy extreme bassheads.
    Sooo many options. Maybe you expand a bit on your expectations. How loud do you listen? I imagine those Klipsch mains can really crank. What are you looking for that your current subs don't provide? More headroom? More low-end extension? Better quality (transients, blending, etc)?
     
  3. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    Ryan, thanks for the response. My goal is to get chest-thumping, wall-shaking bass from 16 to 40 or 50Hz. My current Klipsch subs (KSW-15 and KSW-100) are good subs to impress friends and all, but really drop off on output/SPL under about 26-28 HZ.

    The ideal subs to replace these would be about 20" x 40" approx. and would have output (SPL from 16-80Hz) that is significantly better than my Klipsch KSW-15. I have the space to put one on each side of my 52" x 92" screen so this may help SPL but the second half of my desire and more important is LOW-END GRUNT from 16-30HZ...I want my house to shake(more) when the T-REX is coming in Jurassic Park.

    Any ideas on a 2 sub solution that will meet the size requirements and smoke my KSW-15???!!

    Please help!!! and No I can't build the 480L dual tempest Water heater in this house.

    Brett
     
  4. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    How about putting them under the screen? I recently had a customer that needed a 15" sub with the limitations that it could not be wider than 18" if placed in the corner or no more than 25.5" if sitting under the screen. We built it so that it sits under the screen. We ended up with a box 25.5"W x 25.5"D x 21.5"H (sitting on top of 4" legs). We used a DVC 15" driver with the PE 250W plate amp. It is a 175L enclosure tuned to 17.5Hz. It absolutely shook the room!

    It looks like you could easily fit two subs up there underneath the screen.

    Brian
     
  5. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    Brian, excellent idea.

    I just measured under my screen and it would allow a 17" high box/tube/enclosure underneath it running at least 92" wide (screen width). I have approx. 22" of room on either side of my screen on the stage.

    Could an affordable/realistic enclosure be designed that would be a max. of 17" high, up to 92" wide and as much as 24" deep? Any ideas on box type, drivers etc.

    Thanks, Brett
     
  6. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    Sure would be nice if you could put 2 Tempests in that thing. You'll think the T-rex is in you house [​IMG]
    Plug those dimensions into a box calculator and see what size you end up with. Gotta be close to 480L...
     
  7. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    17 x 92 x 24 external
    Assuming 1 inch thick panels
    15 x 90 x 22 = 29,700 in^3 = 17.2 ft^3 = 487L gross internal
    Assume about 15% for bracing, driver volume, port volume
    487 x 0.85 = 414L net

    The Adire reference designs for the Tempest are
    EBS: 340L tuned to 15.8Hz
    SBB4: 194L tuned to 18.8Hz
    Adire: 214L tuned to 15.4Hz

    With 2 Tempests you could shoot for the Adire or SBB4 alignment or somewhere between them. Should be more than adequate.
     
  8. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    Yeah, now the wheels are turning. 1 inch thick walls??!! What material(s) are used for this? I will go to the Adire audio website and look for these plans before wasting everyone's time, I just need some direction.

    Thanks Brian, Ryan and Mike
     
  9. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    Where can I see the plans for the EBS, SBB4 or Adire Sub's. I tried the Adire website with no luck. I am very curious to see not only pics of each of these but the plans to build or do I use a box calculator somewhere??

    detailed pics, links or other info is greatly appreciated on how to get started.

    Ryan, I really liked your SBB4's (thegirls) Those are nice but I am also interested in using this space underneath my screen if possible.

    Brett
     
  10. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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  11. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    You dont have to use 1 inch thick panels, 3/4 inch would probably be fine, especially if you make a double-thick baffle for the drivers. 1 inch MDF does exist, but your local Home Depot or Lowe's will probably only carry up to 3/4 inch. You can laminate to 1/2 inch sheets together to make a 1 inch sheet.

    That Tempest Apps link (in Brian's post above) is where I found those reference designs. Lots of good info in there.

    My SBB4's? I haven't built any SBB4's, maybe they belong to another Ryan around here. I built one sealed DVC 12 inch sub for a relative. Then came my first attempt at a ported DVC 12, which didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped - mostly due to its overly complex design. So I cannibalized the components and built another sealed sub. I want to try the vented sub again, but this time stick to the "Keep It Simple, Stupid" philosophy.
     
  12. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Dustin's DVC 12" sonosub design looks excellent. I believe it's 125L tuned to 18-20Hz.

    Brian
     
  13. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    I have several more questions and I appreciate everyone's help as I am new to building a DIY sub but pretty good with tools and woodworking.

    1) How do I know if outside box dim's of 17" tall x 24" deep x 92" wide will work for two tempests?

    2) Could this box sit right on the floor or does it need legs?

    3) Would woofers fire up, down or forward into room?

    4) Would the woofers have to be mounted on the 24 x 92" section(top or bottom) or could they be monted on the side walls (17" x 24"?) or th front/back (17" x 92")?

    5) If the sub needs to be elevated or have legs I can not be taller than 17" total due to screen so I assume I reduce box height? i.e. If legs are 3" box can not be more than 14"

    6) Did some more measuring and found that the area under my screen is 98" wide, 17" tall Max. and 24" or more towards front of room. The 98" and 24" dimensions can move but the 17" can not.

    Any ideas or suggestions based on this? Could I make the Dual Tempest behemoth given the above flexibility or lack thereof?

    I am most concerned about driver locations and if they would be forward, down, side or rear firing.

    Thanks in advance for your help and ideas.

    Brett
     
  14. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    I'm thinking that both drivers front facing and the ports would probably have to go out each side, but that's just a guess. Hopefully someone will chime in...

    Have you tried sending an email directly to Dan Wiggins at Adire? He was VERY helpful in designing my sub and answering all my questions. Never hurts to go directly to the source for the most educated answers.
     
  15. Kevin Beck

    Kevin Beck Stunt Coordinator

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    Brett,..
    "The girls" were mine. The shape of the enclosure, and where the woofers are mounted in it are not a big concern. Most often when using a strange shape enclosure, ported. The problem is getting the port in it. Sounds like you have plenty of room though. However, I would think bracing would be a big factor in this enclosure. Make sure you have plenty. If you had this unit under your screen, firing forward, all you would need for legs is a few spikes on the bottom. Just enough to anchor it to your stage, and keep it from floating on the carpet. This will impprove the sound quality, and in most cases the performance of the sub. Adires site can be a little confusing to navigate. Look for the aplication papers fro the drivers.
    Looks to me like you have the potential for a killer set up.
    GRCRY,...>>>--->
     
  16. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    "1) How do I know if outside box dim's of 17" tall x 24" deep x 92" wide will work for two tempests? "
    I worked the math above for an approximate internal volume. Double-check my numbers. The Adire alignment (times 2 for 2 Tempests) from the Tempest application paper is just about the volume you're working with and has been built many times and always with more than satisfactory results.

    "2) Could this box sit right on the floor or does it need legs?"
    Legs are only needed if the driver or port will be mounted on the bottom panel or if you think there's a chance the box will "walk". But this'll be a pretty heavy box. By the way, have you considered how you'll get a 98 x 17 x 24 box into the room once you've constucted it? This could be tricky. Just picking it up will take a lot of strength.

    3, 4, and 5:
    There's no good reason to down-fire the woofers in this application. That would require legs and reduce the available box volume considerably. Front-firing would probably work just fine. You've got 17" externally to work with. If you use 3/4" panels then that leaves 15.5" internal. The Tempest white paper says that the driver mounting holes are in a 14.65" diameter. Might get a bit tight, especially if you plan to use T-nuts. But with a little ingenuity you should be able to make it work. Or you could just put them on the top panel upward-firing. In either of these configurations you shouldn't need feet.

    If it were me I'd just double the Adire plans - 2 drivers, 4 ports, 128oz polyfill, 418L - and try to hit that. Its a proven design by Dan-The-Man. You could probably switch to dual 4" flared ports or dual 6" ports but you'd have to find the correct lengths and determine how much that changes the net internal volume. Dual 6 inchers can take up a lot of space.
     
  17. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    i am in the prosses of bulding a 18 inch sono tube for the tempest it is a 18 inch tube 5 feet long tuned to 16 hz with 250 l encloser grose i bet you can use a 17 inch tube and make it as long as you want here is a link to my web page i have started for it
    http://www.geocities.com/theirishgon...?1026404988079
     
  18. Brett Loomis

    Brett Loomis Stunt Coordinator

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    Mike, Kewvin, Bryan and Ryan.....Thanks a lot for the great ideas.

    I did not give the box size/weight much thought and that is a major problem as I would want to build this in my garage and then move to my finished basement. I have cut a lot of 3/4" MDF for for current stage floor and 2nd row riser and I don't know of any material that could possibly generate more dust when cutting. If I built this "under the screen" sub I don't think it would fit down the 90 degree turn on my basement stairs....It's kind of tight. That would be my luck, finish building then find out it won't even fit in the room. So bottom line is I am shying away from the Dual tempest single enclosure

    However, I can use the 22" wide and 40 inch space on either side of my screen for two separate subs. Any concerns with this? Will I be able to obtain serious lows and SPLS with two subs, one on either side of my screen?

    What configuration will match my dimensional restrictions for these locations.

    Thanks again guys and I will be sure and create a page with pics once I start the construction. I just need some help on the best configuration. Will I be able to use a 15" Tempest in each of these?
     
  19. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    Just divide the volume in half and build two separate enclosures. No problem at all.

    Brian
     
  20. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, just build two boxes 17x24x46 and put them next to each other.

    If you can go 22x22x40 on either side that's actually a little bigger. Earlier I said this space wasn't big enough for a Tempest but that's because we were talking about a 20" tube 39" tall and likely downfiring, needing legs. But optimally you want to place the subs right next to each other, so the twin under-the-screen subs might be better than twin on-either-side-of-the-screen subs.

    Honestly it seems like you've got enough room in either configuration and the difference between them is probably negligible. I'd just pick the option that works best with the room - visually and spacially.
     

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