Need Help! SVS 20-39 CSi or newer 20-39 CS-Plus??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dan Hitchman, Jul 4, 2002.

  1. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I need some feed back from the loyal (and not-so-loyal; don't be shy!) SVS subwoofer owners about a quandary I have.
    Currently, I'm torn between the improved 20-39 CS and the new 20-39 CS-Plus. During their Summer Sale, the difference is about $150 (not including shipping costs). I focused on the 20 Hz tuned enclosures because most everyone in the threads I've come across seems to mention they give you the best of both volume & frequency response for most movies and music in an average sized room.
    Obviously, with the ~$150 savings by going the CSi route, I could put it toward a new Panasonic RP82 progressive scan DVD player, but then again if the improvement in the drivers and performance is worth the extra $150... (I'm not made of money, so for me $150 is nothing to sneeze at).
    Aaaaaaahh, the humanity!!! [​IMG] I'm stuck and can't make up my mind, and since I can't audition both models side by side in my living room I turn to you, my fellow HTF brothers and sisters for your educated guidance to help steer me one way or the other.
    My interest, presently, is 50% Movies & 50% Music. I like a variety of films and music ranging from quiet, subtle dramas, orchestral, organ, choral works, & musicals to sensory assaulting action/sci-fi/fantasy flicks and rock 'n' roll tunes. As you can plainly see my tastes swing in all directions.
    I would consider myself more of an audiophile who just doesn't have the budget at the moment to go crazy, so I'm looking for fast transient response, rhythm and pace for music and very tight slam for the movies at a decent price. I hate subs that offer blubbery, incoherent & mushy bass. All in all, I'd rather have a sub lean toward controlled musicality with finesse than gut slamming subharmonics since that latter performance gain can be re-created effectively with tactile transducers without destroying your hearing. However, if the sub can have some authority in the nether regions of audible frequencies, then more power to it.
    I already own a Samson S700 amp from a previous purchase from SVS, so I don't need a powered sub.
    Also, does anyone have experience with SVS's Marchand "black box" for utrasonic bass filtering? My Outlaw Model 950 pre-amp does not have a bass limiting filter like some equipment out there, and I wonder if something like that "black box" would be worth the money since I'm getting a passive sub?
    Your input and advice would be most appreciated.
    Thanks in advance! [​IMG]
    Dan
     
  2. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    P.S. You may be wondering why I already have a Samson S700 amp and still want advice on a passive subwoofer. Well, I already have a DIY water heater sub with two first generation Shiva 12" drivers, which was my first foray into the build-it-yourself speaker world. Unfortunately, I could never get it tuned just right (it's a sealed enclosure) to my tastes, it was very fat, tall, and bulky (even more so than the regular SVS sub lines), and in some of the upper-lower bass regions it came across as muffled, muddy, indistinct, and a kind of one-note-wonder.

    However, it does have piston-like slam for movies like The Haunting, Jurassic Park, etc. since the dual drivers push a lot of air.

    I keep finding myself wanting something more refined and pre-built (since I am a novice at this kind of sub construction) to round out the sound of my ever growing 7.1 surround system, and hopefully an SVS sub would fit the bill at these sale prices.

    Your $.02, please.

    Dan
     
  3. Jeffrey Forner

    Jeffrey Forner Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 1999
    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dan;
    I suggest you go with the CS Plus model. It sounds as if you really want that one and just need someone to push you in that direction. So here I am pushing. [​IMG]
    Let's face it: If you don't buy the CS Plus sub, you'll be left to wonder if you really got the best of what you could afford. Buyer's remorse is a terrible thing to live with.
     
  4. JoelM

    JoelM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2001
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Go with the CS+. I have 2 CS+25-31's and trust me I will not be upgrading my Bass for a LONGGGGGG time.
     
  5. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    With a Samson S700 I would go with the 20-39csi. You're not going to be pushing the cs+ hard enough with that amp to really notice a big difference. From talking to Tom and Ron they have both said that you really need the S1000 to get the most out of the cs+'s. I have both a dual 20-39cs+ package as well as a 22-31cs/samson package. No question about it, the cs+ package blows away the single cs. I would still put that little beast up again almost any sub in the sub 2K price range!
     
  6. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dan,

    I would be really interested in what the internal volume is of your dual Shiva sub. If not sized properly that may have a lot to do with why you dislike the sound.

    Brian
     
  7. Doug BW

    Doug BW Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2001
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree with Bob Albano regarding trying to drive a Plus with an S700. However, my suggestion would be to sell the S700 and buy a PC-Plus. This way you get all the advantages of a CS-Plus with over 500 WPC, and all the features of the Marchand "black box", and then some.
     
  8. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I wonder the same as Brian Bunge. The Shiva is at least on par with the ISD from SVS. The enclosure doesn't have to look pretty. If you have the proper internal volume (and porting if you go that way) you just have to use the right material and seal it well. If that is done correctly a pair of Shiva's will be equal to a pair of the current CS subs.
    If you really think your building skills suck that bad you could even have Brian here build you a couple Shiva enclosures that you could then install the drivers in and power with your S700.
    Rutledge Audio is Brian's operation and he can build some truely beautiful enclosures (check the photos section). Send him an email and see what he would want for a pair of Adire or Dharman type vented allignment enclosures that you could stack (in either of these allignments the S700 would be oodles of power). This very well could be the cheapest/best value option.
     
  9. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So, if I didn't want to deal with a DIY route anymore (at least for the time being) and had the opportunity in the near future to upgrade my Samson S700 amp, should I lean towards the CS+ instead?

    Would others concur with that statement? Is the CS+ really closer to the Ultras in performance like the SVS PR stuff states?

    Hmmm...

    Thanks for the inputs so far!

    Dan
     
  10. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Anybody else have some suggestions or advice?
    I'd love to hear them. [​IMG]
    Thanks again.
    Dan
     
  11. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have already chimed in but if I were you I would either sell the S700 and upgrade to the S1000 or go with a dual 20-39cs package and keep your S700. Keep in mind that approx 1 CS+ is equal to 2 cs subs. Go for the Cs+/samson if you can afford it that way you have a upgrade path in the future.
     
  12. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think you are a little off there Bob. In the pre plus series days it was said that it would take a pair of the CS series subs to equal a single Ultra. With the ISD this isn't true anymore. Bass is displacement and the rough numbers for the SVS drivers (best guesses of the DIY guys with some brow beating of Tom) has the ISD at 1.5L (equivalent to a Shiva or Dayton DVC12"), the Plus series driver at 2L and the Ultra/SS driver at 2.5L (equivalent to a Tempest). The original SVS driver was around 1.2 or 1.3L. So take from that what you will.
     
  13. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    After much deliberation and head banging against a wall (I could have upgraded my surround speakers for just a little more money), I decided to bite the bullet and go for a single SVS 20-39 CS+ allowing for the fact that I'll try to upgrade my Samson amp some time in the near future.
    Thanks for all your input and suggestions. In some ways I think I did need a push, as Jeffrey Forner put it. I get a little indecisive when it comes to plunking down a chunk o' change. [​IMG]
    Tighter and deeper bass response should add some needed authority to my system that I've lacked for some time (my DIY sub was the first sub I'd had for any period of time).
    I'll let you know how things turn out. If everything works out fine, as I'm hoping it will, I'm ordering one of those cool looking 3-D SVS wall plaques to hang next to my DTS and Dolby Digital plaques. By the way, does anyone who owns one of these ShowOff Display made SVS signs know the actual dimensions (and are they worth getting)?
    Dan
     
  14. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dan,
    Just don't be playing that thing too loud as I've got a sister in Loveland and I don't want her complaining [​IMG]
     
  15. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 1998
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Couple things to remember,
    Driver Vd isn't the end all(at all). You can have 2 drivers nearly identical in *Vd* but with huge performance differences based on stuff like thermal compression,Fs and BL.
    Down low(30hz, we're looking at 2-3dB higher for the CS+.
    The current CS driver measures about 2-3dB better than the old CS/PC driver in clean output capabilities(in my ground plane tests).The lower the freq,the more advantage for the new ISD. The OLD driver hit 109.5dB(25-63hz)/25hz extension for Tom Nousaine in one of our first enclosures off the assembly line.I have't kept up on the TN data lately(just no time)...but last I checked only the 18" servo from Velodyne matched that output/extension mark(so the OLD cs/pc driver was certainly nothing to sneeze at!).
    I remember 3 years ago, every subwoofer thread had a "this X is about as good as a Velodyne15 or that *Z* will be close to a VEL12!".
    Now I can't lurk on a forum without seeing how this "X" will equal 2 SVS Ultras, or that "Y" will equal the SVS CS. I guess I should be flattered(I am)...but it would still be nice to see objective verification on some of these claims someday..[​IMG]
    I think what we(svs) really needs to do is get off our asses and fire off 2-3 subs for TN to measure. A PCi,a CS+ and one of our new units...
    this way we can say,hey baby...we got ours, go get yours...[​IMG]
    TV
     
  16. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tom,
    Is it a question of advertising dollars spent, etc. to get your subs into some of the big mainstream rags?
    I would think the reviewers from S&M and Perfect Vision would go apeshit if they heard the possibilities for many less dollars that your company provides. I would love to be a fly on the wall at the Velodyne corporate meeting when the results of your Ultra package were published[​IMG]
    Jeremy
     
  17. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     

Share This Page