Need help from 3802 owners ASAP.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Matt Parsons, Mar 30, 2002.

  1. Matt Parsons

    Matt Parsons Stunt Coordinator

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    I've arranged to have 3 sets of speakers (B&W CDM 1NT, PSB Stratus Mini, Alon Lil Rascals) for the weekend to do in-home evaluation and want to be able to do an A/B switch for the main channels.

    Does the 3802 allow me to jump from one set of mains to another w/an A/B? I can't seem to find it in the 'wonderful' manual, the only A/B they talk about are for the surround channels.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. Dan Steffen

    Dan Steffen Stunt Coordinator

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    Unfortunately I think you are right Matt. I don't know how to do that either other than using the surround channels. Good luck
     
  3. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    You have the answer! I will try to find an old post to help you. You can pump a different signal(analog only) to the remotes. Or you can feed it stereo info.

    one tip: i have seen a lot of confusion in several threads about the surround speaker connections. here's the thing, the conventional 5.1 surrounds go in the side surround A & B jacks. the idea of the A & B is so you can setup two sets of side surrounds which you can use alternatively for movies or music (dipoles vs. monopoles). you cannot use four speakers at the same time in the A & B setup. you must choose one pair. the surround back channels are the 6.1 and 7.1 (or multiroom) speakers. to have those work you must turn the surround back channel ON in the receiver's setup.

    Also, if you're using a powered sub with its own crossover, make sure to either disable it or set it as high as you can. That way, the Denon will control the crossover completely. Consider the alternative scenario: you set all speakers to Small, set an 80Hz crossover on the Denon, but set a lower crossover on your sub (say, 60Hz). In this scenario, the Denon sends signals below 80Hz to the sub, but the sub isn't paying attention to anything above 60Hz, so you end up with a big hole in your bass between 60Hz and 80Hz, because no speaker is trying to reproduce this range! If you're not noticing a difference in sound when you change the crossover point, this may be what's happening. Check that sub for its own crossover.

    If you set your mains to Large, the Denon will give you a sub-related choice of LFE only or for LFE+Main (check pp. 19-21 in the 3802 manual). If you choose LFE+Main, then bass below the crossover point will be sent to both the sub and your mains. Some people like that big boost, but most report that it makes the bass way too boomy. Even if you have big speakers, you should set all speakers to Small for Home Theater applications. Some people prefer not to use the sub for music; that's up to your ears and your system. But for HT, set to Small all around and LFE for the sub.

    If anybody of you has used the 380X with a multi-room setup, I would be glad if you could give me some info concerning the following questions:

    - Are you still satisfied with the multiroom setup or is it cumbersome to use (i.e. simple enough for wife/kids)?

    - If you only want to listen to music in the zone 2, is it easy to mute the sound in the "main room" (and vice versa)?

    - Is it correct, that once you have selected "multi" on the main unit, the necessary adjustments (turn on/off, input source, volume) can be done via the remote from the second room without needing further adjustments on the main unit?

    I am using the 3802 for multi-room and it works great for me. I use the multi-room line level out to a slave receiver (old Denon AVR 3300) for the rest of the house (6 rooms) ran through a niles speaker selector. I have a volume control in each room so the only thing I can control is the volume in each room.

    Sounds like your set-up would be a little different, but it will definately work and will be relatively easy to use.

    You can control the volume of the main room and zone 2 from the remote. You are correct that selecting "multi" on the remote lets you then adust volume, input source, etc from the remote also. To do this from the second room, you would need an IR repeater though - unless your remote will go through walls.

    Hope this helps.

    Originally posted by merc:

    I am on the fringe of buying a 3801 but need to make sure that I can do this first.

    I plan on using the 3801 as a preamp(preouts used) for my primary HT but want to assign the rear center amps to power my outdoor speakers when I select the multi room output. Can I do this, or will assigning the center rear amps to power another room also assign the preouts for the center rear channels? Also, if it does allow me to assign only the amps to the multiroom, can I also control when any sound is output to the speakers in the other room?

    Thanks for your help!

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    merc,

    According to the manual, by using the back speaker amps for multi-room, you'll end up with no rear channels. This goes the same for pre-outs. You can control the volume and select the source via the remote by changing the mode on the remote to "Multi"

    Couple of things to remember for multi-room setup. The 3802 supports multi-room by either dedicating the back channels (direct driving speakers in another room) and/or by a line level output. For reasons that escape me, it does NOT provide a composite and/or S-Video output to room 2 (unlike my old Yamaha which did this just fine). Additionally, these outputs are analog-only: if you're using a digital connection to the 3802 you will get nothing on the room 2 line level outputs. This is an issue if you're connecting a DVD or CD player via a digital cable to the 3802. I get around this by connecting both digital and analog outputs. Lastly, anything that is input to the 5.1 discrete inputs is not output to the room 2 line level outputs at all.

    You won't get any sound out of the multi speakers if your source is digital only. I was going nuts with this problem too. I had it working, then tried playing a cd in the dvd player, which I had connected only with the digital audio cable. When I connected the left/right analog audio, the sound came through.

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    For multi-zone to work with digital would require two digital processor sections of the receiver, something that nobody offers.

    Well, I think the problem you are having is that you cannot have 7.1 surround and the multizone at the same time. First off, let me say I have not used the multizone feature in my 3802 yet, but this is what i understood from the manual. if you want to have 7.1 surround (side and back surrounds outputting different sound) you have to connect the back surround speakers to the backsurround/multizone outputs. the surround a&b outputs are there for people with two sets of side surround speakers which they use alternatively for music and for movies (dipole vs. monopole speakers). you can only get output from surround a or b at any given time. now, if you want to use the multizone, youll have to just set up 5.1 surround and connect the other two multizone speakers to the back surround/multizone outputs. you also need to make sure that you set the receiver up so that the surround back function is turned off!!! that way it will know that you are in 5.1 + multizone mode. once you set it up that way you should be able to play different sources in each room, and even set different volume levels. again, i have not tried this yet, but that's how i believe it's supposed to work.

    Does anyone know how the heck to use this. Here is my situation. I have front, center, sub, and sur A hooked up. I also have 2 speakers on my deck running inside to the receiver. I have the deck speakers running into "MultiZone" I can not get these to play with out playing all other speakers. Is there not a way to select just these speakers to play, as in selecting A/B? I thought that you could play one source through the multi zone speakers, and listen to something else in the primary zone.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    You can. I assume you have the back speakers assigned to multi in the setup menu. Next you press the multi zone button on the front of the unit, select the source and go to it. You can then do whatever you want in your living room by just changing sources there. When the multi zone icon is lit it sends whatever source you chose for it to those speakers (or line out).

    Thanks, but it is still not working. I have the outside speakers connected to the back of the receiver in the SURR BACK/MULTI ZONE jacks.

    In the "Speaker Set Up" I have Sp B. off and Sp. Back set to small.

    Now, I can hear audio out of the speakers on the deck if I listen to the receiver in regular mode (it is now playing in 7ch Stereo instead of 5ch). But if I turn the source to something dead, and turn the multi to cd - no sound. I also go to "Power Amp Assignment" and select "Multi". I still get nothing.

    What in the hell am I doning wrong?

    Have you tried turning the volume up. I think that was my problem when I initially set it up the way you have it. Now if anyone knows how to turn off the sound from the multi-zone speakers when not in use please let me know. Right now I just turn the volume all the way down.

    In setup you have to tell it if they are multi zone or surround speakers B. When running multi-zone, the zone has it's own settings for source and volume. I have a set of speakers for another room hooked up to the speaker’s jacks and wireless headphones hooked up to the pre-amp out puts. So I can have a movie from my DVD playing in the theater and music from a CD playing in the other room at a different volume. Remember you can only send analog signals to the multi-zone. So if you’re using Digital coax or fiber you also need to run regular analog cables for left and right.
     
  4. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    "you cannot use four speakers at the same time in the A & B setup"

    Has anyone verified this? According to the manual you can set the surround speaker set-up as: A, B, or A + B. This leads me to believe that you could use 4 speakers in an A/B surround set-up, but obviously I'm not 100% sure.

    I happen to have an extra pair of speakers and was considering setting them up as a second pair of surrounds placed about 1/2 way between my mains and current surrounds. I hate to by the speaker wire if this won't work.

    Has anyone tried this with a 3802?? TIA...Mike
     
  5. Willem Vos

    Willem Vos Stunt Coordinator

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  6. Dan Steffen

    Dan Steffen Stunt Coordinator

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    It is my understanding that you cannot run both A+B+multi room at the same time. Only 7 speakers are supported at once.

    A speakers are meant for either dipoles or direct radiating side surround

    B speakers are meant for either direct radiating if A speakers are dipole or vice versa. The intention is that you could switch between side surrounds for music (using direct radiators) and HT (using dipoles)
     
  7. Mark Haver

    Mark Haver Extra

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    i beleive the only way to do this is throught the mutli room set up. I just got a 3802 and have been studying the manual for the past couple of days. At least you can run 2 sets and go from there.

    Mark
     
  8. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    I wonder what the A+B setting described in the manual is for then?? I'm going to either get some wire and give it a try, or try to contact Denon support.

    I really like the idea of having 2 sets of side surrounds in my HT. Especially when I move to a bigger room. I could always wire the speakers in series off of the A setting.

    If anyone has tried A+B please let us know your findings...Mike
     
  9. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    Tried to find a CS e-mail or phone # on the Denon site with no luck. Did learn that the 3802 is stable with a 4ohm load, so I could use the 2 sets off the A wired in parallel.

    I still like the idea of A+B if it'll work......
     
  10. Richard_M

    Richard_M Second Unit

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