Need Help Buying A Subwoofer?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by MattCPT, Feb 19, 2003.

  1. MattCPT

    MattCPT Stunt Coordinator

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    I had once purchased a Velodyne Sub(don't recall model) eight years ago when I bought my main speakers (Def Tech BP-30s) and I promptly returned it because I found the sound to be "BOOMY" not at all musical. I preferred the sound of my main speakers alone. I had since given up on the idea of adding a sub. After reading posts on this forum regarding subs like SVS, HSU, Adire, etc... I'm beginning to feel as though I'm missing out on "MUSICAL" bass that will also add to my home theater experience.

    My speakers say that they go down to 18Hz, and I always thought that I was getting accurate bass reproduction down to that level. I now understand that my speakers may go as low as 18Hz, but the sound may not be audible. I certainly don't "feel" the bass unless the I play my speakers hard.
    I love the sound of my speakers, but if I could gain tight, accurate, and powerful bass then I want to.

    My entertainment room is 13 x 23 x 8 with the back of the room open to stairs and the dining room. The room is tiled with poured concrete floors, walls, and ceiling. I live in a townhouse. I'm looking for help deciding between the following speakers. I and/or my wife have already ruled some out because of dimensions, looks, performance, or price.

    SVS PB-1 - looks like it should be a great performer with an excellent price. I'm not thrilled with the dimensions, or the looks, but it's still a contender.

    Def. Tech Pro-Sub 200TL - I'm not considering this one just because it's the same maker as my speakers. I read excellent reviews on audioreview.com. The dimensions and looks are great. I wonder however if the performance will be what I'm looking for. Do you think this will provide the power that my room requires? Should I believe a post from an owner of the Pro-Sub 100 that says he has compared is with SVS and doesn't feel that he is missing anything? I would love to hear from someone that has heard this sub, not just assumptions(thanks).

    Aperion Audio SW-12 - Love the looks, the dimensions are fair and the price is good. Does anyone know how this sounds? Is it quality? How would it compare to the other two?

    I ruled out HSU because my wife doesn't like the look of the VTF-2 and I wouldn't buy the VTF-3 when I can get the SVS for much less. I ruled out the Adire Rava because I read less than stellar reviews, and the Darhman on the fact that it is bigger than I would like. I also ruled out the ACI Force because of price.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  2. Bob Drugan

    Bob Drugan Agent

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    I have the Aperion Audio 6.1 speaker system with the 12" 250 watt sub and couldn't be happier. The great thing about these speakers is they sound so natural and the bass is awesome. The speakers are very easy to listen to and for the $ I couldn't find anything that compared. Aperion has a 30 day return policy but after hearing these in my home they not going back. The people at Aperion were great to deal with too - I did tons of research and they answered all my questions and couldn't have been nicer. Oh yeah they even send you an owners kit plus my wife really liked the bags the speakers are wrapped in - very classy. Check them out at www.aperionaudio.com. Bob

    Yes this sub is very musical - definitely not a boom box . With Aperions 30 day return policy why not give it a try for the $ this sub is a steal. Hearing a speaker in your house is the way to determine what's best for you.

    Check out the reviews section on the Aperion site above. Both SGHT and Perfect Vision have the 12" Aperion sub on their recommended component lists . Check out the reviews on Audioreview.com
     
  3. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    What about the 25-31PCi. I thought it would be too big but really it isn't and I think I prefer the look of it over the box style.....check out my pictures of the SVS
    Or is the cylinder style not acceptable by the wife?
     
  4. Jose G

    Jose G Supporting Actor

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    Matt,
    I think, in general, no matter how low your mains will go- a sub will make a huge difference in your HT experience; however, the room you describe, although not too large, being open to other areas, tiled, with poured concrete floors, walls, and ceiling, may cause a not so boomy sub to sound more boomy than usual- not much to do about that though other than add some sort of sound dampener to those walls. Do you have some sound absorbing furniture around, canvas painting, carpet or rugs down, etc.? This will help with the potential boominess of that room. Also, as another option, you might want to contact Brian Bunge of Rutledge Audio Design to make you a sub- many folks here say great things about his work and I know he's one of the nicest guys to deal with here in HTF. He's answered lots of my questions and I haven't spent a penny on him. He can be reached at [email protected] Otherwise, from what you've stated- the SVS seems the way to go at this point. That Aperion 12" sure looks good and if it really does perform right up there with an HSU I might go that way also. Best of luck to you.
     
  5. Jose G

    Jose G Supporting Actor

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    Chad,
    Funny thing- I showed my wife a pict of the 25-31PCi thinking she would think it was as great looking as I thought it was- she looked at me like I was nuts. I still can't figure her out...but I got to love her.
     
  6. MattCPT

    MattCPT Stunt Coordinator

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    I showed my wife the 25-31PCI and she said "you can't put anything on the top of it if we wanted to". She then asked me if it was AT LEAST shorter than the box, and when I told her the height she wasn't happy [​IMG] . Of course I don't buy any of my equipment to make her happy [​IMG] . I do however want her to feel as though she can live with it.

    Doesn't anyone know about the Def Tech?
     
  7. CurtisC

    CurtisC Second Unit

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    If a musical sub is what ya need,try the klipsch Rsw 12/15.It has 2400 watt peak.I auditioned 6 subs under 2k,for my set up it was by far the most musical.It does not just rumble,vibrate,it actually recreates instruments.The 12 at about 1k was all I needed,but only the 15 comes in cherry,so I get a little more at the very bottom.
     
  8. MattCPT

    MattCPT Stunt Coordinator

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    How much is the Klipsch that your talking about? The subs that I'm comparing are all $600 or less, and I don't want to spend much more because I think that it would be hard to beat the ones that I've chosen. I may be wrong but it just seems that SVS and Aperion offer a lot of performance for $600. I'm not so sure about the Def Tech (I e-mailed the company for specs but haven't received a response yet).

    Thanks for the suggestions so far. I have looked more closely at Rutledge Audio and will call Brian to see what he could offer.
     
  9. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    My honest opinion is that SVS truly IS all the great things that have been said about it. Performance, accuracy, quality, value, customer service ... there's a reason for the cult-like following. They're the real deal. You can count on one hand the number of subwoofer manufacturers who can compete on these terms. And maybe one of them can equal SVS. But nobody does it better. I wouldn't risk a penny when I already know what I'll get from Ron and Tom.

    Well ... that's not completely true. I've risked a few bucks building my own subs and they've been worth every penny.
     
  10. Mike_Gr

    Mike_Gr Stunt Coordinator

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    I thought I would throw in my two cents. The Paradigm Servo 15 is amazing for both music and home theatre. However, it is not very stylish...if that sort of thing matters to you.
     
  11. Kevin Knebel

    Kevin Knebel Extra

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    I am going to purchase a Def Tech 100TL or 200TL sub this weekend. I can let you know how it sounds in a couple of days. My room is 18x12. When I go to the dealer to pick it up, I'll give a listen to both subs. The dealer told me over the phone that he would not recommend that I buy the 200TL over the 100TL. He said that for the $100 more you really would not get that much better sound. I've auditioned the 100TL at three different stores over the last few months and was very impressed. I've never heard SVS subs, but based on the comments I've seen on this forum, I'm sure they sound great. I considered going the SVS route, but due to price and size constraints, I decided to go the Def Tech route.
     
  12. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    Kevin how much will you be paying for the Def Tech 100tl/200tl? I see they list for 449 and 549. I got a bstock 25-31pci for that price range and you can get the 25-31pci new for the price of the Def200. Check out my pics of the svs...[​IMG]
     
  13. Kevin Knebel

    Kevin Knebel Extra

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    The 100TL is $416 and the 200TL $510. The dealer is in Delaware, where there is no sales tax, so that will be the final price. The Def Tech subs are pretty compact in size. The SVS seems to be a little too big.
     
  14. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    I can agree with you there kevin but I actually am starting to like the look of the svs cylinder...I guess maybe because it is different then your average style looking box.
    I can say this is my third sub...I had a 8" kenwood, 12" acoustic research and now an SVS and all I can say is WOW!
    I never felt bass like this before. I watched the POD race scene in star wars yesterday and I never felt that bass before with either of my old subs. And listening to the BlueMan Group is a whole new experience with this sub...ouch is all I can say. Yes pictures do turn sideways when turned up....[​IMG]
     
  15. MattCPT

    MattCPT Stunt Coordinator

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    Kevin,
    I would love to hear what you think of the 100TL and 200TL. I don't know if the dealer would have the specifications on performance of the two subs, but I would love to know. I still haven't received a return e-mail from Def Tech.

    I don't think that I would buy any 15" sub just because the enclosures tend to run very large and I don't want to go larger than 18 - 20 inches in any of the dimensions if I don't have to. Smaller would be better.

    I also look forward to reviews of the SVS PB1. It looks as though UPS is holding onto a couple for some of the HTF members.

    I will also contact Brian from Rutledge by e-mail to see what he could make. I love the look of their new 15" sub but I can't fit it. Perhaps he has a similar smaller option that can still perform. I would call him but I just had all 4 wisdom teeth pulled out today (shouldn't have waited til 30).

    Thanks for the suggestions, please keep me informed.
     
  16. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    Hey matt you have read the specs on the subs at def techs website correct?
     
  17. Sanjiva

    Sanjiva Agent

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    hi,

    i have used both deftech sub 100tl and 200tl. i have the procinema 100 satellites as my HT speakers for 5.1 system and my experience with the subs were as under:

    200tl: for HT, it was fantastic. when you hear the roar of the tigers in gladiator fight scene and the chains rustling through the sand, the sound actually scares you - it is that good. real low.

    for music, somehow it did not go well with my satellites and were too overwhelming. i thought it was an overkill for music. so i changed to 100tl.

    100tl: for music, as i said, since i have small satellites, this blends well and is not overpowering the way 200tl was. however, i would not call it a very "musical" sub as such. it does a good job.

    for HT, it is good (adeqaute for my needs - 18 x 14 living room open space in an apartment) but little bit on the "boomy" side compared to 200tl. i definitely would not give it very high marks. 200tl had much more of the real low freq thundering effect. the rocket launch scene in the beginning of "space cowboy" actually shook the entire apartment even at a resonable volume, in a low rumbling sort of way which makes you "feel" the bass rather than "hear" it. 100tl falls short on that for sure. hence, if you have to decide between the two, primarily for HT purposes, i would probably go with 200tl. if i had bigger mains, i would have kept the 200tl.

    however, i have not heard SVS, Hsu or any other subs which are so highly recommended on this forum. so, i cannot compare.

    i think, you should take both the subs and test it out and keep the one which sounds better in your set up. def tech dealers will all allow that.

    hope this is of some help,

    cheers.
     
  18. MattCPT

    MattCPT Stunt Coordinator

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    Chad,
    I should have been more specific in what I was looking for. I did look at the Def Tech website, but I didn't see a graph that tells me the decibel output of their subs or speakers at any given Hz. I feel that this information would be a better judge of performance than the power rating, dimensions, driver size, etc... that they do supply. If you have seen this info and I have just overlooked it please let me know how I can find it.

    Sanjva,
    Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. From what you say I fear that neither sub is appropriate for me. The BP-30s(current main speakers) are full range speakers with good bass capability, so I don't think that the 100TL will cut it in adding significant low end bass. The 200TL sounds like it has the low end I may need, but if it tends to sound "boomy" like the Velodyne that I returned then I don't want to waste my time or money. Looks like I'm leaning towards the other choices. Thanks again.
     
  19. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    You've spent some $$$ getting a set of mains. Don't skimp on the subwoofer. Keep in mind that a sub will typically have a more expensive driver and need a more powerful amp (vs. the mains). With your mains I think you should look at $1k+ subs (Dual SVS CS+, Dual Hsu 1220, Adire Sadhara, etc.) in order to get the extension/SPL/musicality you want. Personally I find the DT subs to be rather weak and boomy when compared to the other options I've mentioned. Just MHO...
     
  20. Jeff_PxR

    Jeff_PxR Stunt Coordinator

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    I just got my SVS cylinder. My wife rolled her eyes but, I believe, was secretly impressed at the sheer size and power of the thing. How can you not be--it peers over my couch sort of like a big dog ready to growl. And growl it can.....
     

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