need advice on dlp

Discussion in 'Displays' started by benjaminBen, May 26, 2005.

  1. benjaminBen

    benjaminBen Stunt Coordinator

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    I am not sure if i am even going after the right T.V. I will be using the T.V. for 2 things video games and watching sports. So from what i understand a DLP T.V. is what i need, but i am open to suggestions. I want a T.V. that is 50 inches or bigger, that can support 1080p. I will probably be purchasing in the spring when the PS3 comes out. I also will probably be purchasing a panasonic. Any advice is welcome. thanks sooooooooo much.
     
  2. Tim Markley

    Tim Markley Screenwriter

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    Why do you think that DLP is what you need? As far as video games go, some of the DLP sets are known to have video lag when playing 480i games (most games available for PS2). Samsung has admitted to this problem and it's not known yet if the new HLR series fixes it or not. LCD rear projection sets do not have this problem.
     
  3. benjaminBen

    benjaminBen Stunt Coordinator

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    I thought that i needed dlp because that is what i was told by a salesman. that is why i started this thread to see what would be best for me. please give me some help? thanks
     
  4. benjaminBen

    benjaminBen Stunt Coordinator

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    what about the "blur" that is talked about when watching fast moving sports and video games?
     
  5. Rod_Rigo

    Rod_Rigo Extra

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    I've played games with an Xbox on the Samsung DLP and the Sony LCD. They look much better on the LCD....

    But as far as I can tell, the grapics on the PS2 are not as good as the Xbox. Not sure if they'll be better on the PS3.
     
  6. Tim Markley

    Tim Markley Screenwriter

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    Are you asking this in respect to rear projection LCD? This is something that I had heard and read but after looking at the latest generation of sets, I believe that it no longer exists. It certainly doesn't exist on the Sony Grand Wega line which is what I have (55xs955).

    I just reread your first post and noticed that you said 1080p. Well, those sets are still very new or not released yet and will be mucho expensive for a while. We just have to wait and see what the new technology has to show us.
     
  7. MichaelPR

    MichaelPR Second Unit

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    I use an Xbox on My Toshiba DLP....1st I was under the impressiong that only Samsung Models that use the HD3 chip have problems with video sync. Secondly there is blur....mostly noticeable on lower quality sources....the better the picture quality there will be little to no blur. Don't forget that if you watch alot of sports and you play a lot of Video Games burn in will become a major issue for you. And also 1080p....there isn't even a source to give you 1080P...these units ship this summer and will be extremely expensive. DLP is great if you like it....compare LCD and DLP when you shop....whichever looks better to you is what you should buy. I'd also stay away from the Samsungs..
     
  8. benjaminBE

    benjaminBE Auditioning

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    so what burns in easier. dlp or lcd. and how long til 1080p becomes affordable?
     
  9. Tim Markley

    Tim Markley Screenwriter

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    Neither DLP or RPLCD has a problem with burn in. No need to worry about it with either.
     
  10. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    If this helps, here is a general Burn-in barometer (10 being the worst):
    • 10 - Plasma
    • 8 - CRT (RP/FP)
    • 5 - CRT (DV)
    • 3 - LCD (RP/FP)
    • 1 - LCoS
    • 0 - LCD (flat panel)
    • 0 - DLP
    That's the big question right now, but if you look how rapidly display technology has been advancing over the last few years. Then compare that to the incredible price drops over the same period. This would tell me that 1080p (2K) projectors in the next two or three years will likely be similar to what 720p projectors cost today.

    Just over five years ago there were $50,000 FPDs which would pail in comparison to what you can now get for about $2,500. [​IMG]

    Keep in mind too, that front projectors cost far less (industry average is about 1/3 the cost) than rear projectors using similar projection technology. After all, a RPTV is a front projector but it includes expensive optical mirrors, screen, protective shielding, added circuitry for tuner and features like PIP, more advanced power supply, and of course a large cabinet. In addition, RPTVs cost the manufacturer considerably more to ship and manage than front projectors due to their size and vulnerability from damage.

    The main reason RPTVs typically sell for less than equivalent FPs is that they are more popular and so the manufacturers make up for it in volume. If and when FPs are as popular as RPTVs and consumers become aware of the actual manufacturing costs, then I suspect the tables will turn and FPs will be less expensive than RPTVs.

    As for the cost of 1080p displays, currently consumers will be able to buy 1080p DLP RPTVs for under $5,000 which means it is probably costing the manufacturer about $2,000 per unit. This would mean they could just as easily make a 1080p front projector for less than $1,000 and sell it for under $3,000 and still make a very tidy profit. Of course at the end of the day pricing is decided by what the market will bare, and right now 1080p displays are considered a luxury item and thus manufacturers can and will enjoy the freedom of being able to sell them with huge margins.

    My personal prediction is that 2006 will end up being one of the most memorable years for HT enthusiasts with several new technologies rolling out while at the same time prices of current technologies will be falling faster than ever before. There are some additional surprises that are on tap for 2007, but that is too far away to be sure.
     
  11. Eric_L

    Eric_L Screenwriter

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    So what TV do you all suggest for his needs? DLP or LCD? What make? I'm interested in knowing too for I am in a similar boat.
     
  12. benjaminBen

    benjaminBen Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks for the advice nils, as i stated eariler i will probably buy in spring 2006, when i buy a ps3. So i am trying to learn as much as i can. I am willing to spend up to (or maybe more) $3000. So with my needs (70% video games/ 30% watching sports) which is better lcd or dlp? thanks
     
  13. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    Ben,

    It is tough to say, especially as a lot can, and will happen between then and now. In addition, all the various display formats (CRT, LCD, DLP, LCoS, Plasma, etc) have advantages and disadvantages (color, contrast, brightness, 'burn-in', SDE, dithering, banding, etc), such that it is important to first decide what your needs, wants, and limitations are and then prioritize them.

    Without knowing your precise needs, if you were buying today, the LCD projector I would recommend in that price range would be the Panny AE700 (about $2,000). I have compared this to other LCD projectors and so far it would easily be my top pick. In particular, I am very impressed with the AE700 for its minimal SDE which is easily the best of all other LCDs and even better than many DLPs. The AE700 has magnificent color accuracy and a very healthy dose of lumens (this is useful for when you want to watch sporting events or play games without having to turn off all the lights). The Sony does list a much higher spec on/off contrast level, but in comparison the difference was nearly unnoticeable which leads me to believe Sony once again grossly exaggerated their specs.

    The DLP I would recommend right now in that price range would likely be the Toshiba MT700 (about $2,500). It performs as well as what $10,000 DLP projectors did just two years ago and in addition has some new components and features that will allow it to keep from becoming obsolete in as short of time as previous projectors.

    Choosing between the AE700 and the MT700 will not be easy. I would recommend trying to see them both firsthand. When you compare them, try to use the same DVD player (and/or game console) and connections. Then calibrate them using the same software (DVE, AVIA, S&V, etc). Then use the same DVDs and games for your comparisons. If you do all that you will have largely eliminated the majority of variables unrelated to each projector that would affect the results of the comparison.

    This is not always easy to do if you are going to do this at a retail shop. My recommendation is to search for fellow HT enthusiast in your area and organize a projector shoot-out. They are a lot of fun, and you will gain far more useful data from those than you will ever get from reading specs, reviews, and even demoing a projector at a shop.

    HTF has a wonderful resource for finding local HTF members by using their search engine and look for members who live in your area. They also have an area in the forum dedicated for organizing HT gatherings:

    National and Local Home Theater Forum Meets

    In fact, our Austin group is in the middle of planning yet another projector shoot-out in the coming weeks which will likely include both these projectors as well as a Sharp Z2000, Sanyo Z3, Sony HS51, and possibly even the new PE8720 from BenQ which looks absolutely amazing, but is currently above your price range.

    I hope this helps, but the fact that you are doing your research now, and not just a few weeks before planning on buying tells me that you will have a good foundation for making the right decision when the time comes.
     
  14. Dick C

    Dick C Auditioning

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    benjaminBen: For a 50"+ 1080P DLP RPTV for around $3,ooo, consider the 56" Toshiba 56HM195 with a MSRP of $3,499.99. Due in August.
     
  15. Dick C

    Dick C Auditioning

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    benjaminBen: In your post at the start of this thread, you stated that your next set (DLP?) would probably be a Panasonic. It is possible that there won't be any Panny microdisplay RPTVs in the near future. Here is a quote from Peter Putman (hdtvexpert.com) on the Panny line show:" Panasonic's 2005 TV line show wasn't nearly as significant for what was announced as it was for a casual remark made to me after the formal presentations: Panasonic is apparently exiting the microdisplay rear-projection TV business. During the lunch break, I was told by a long-time Panasonic employee that rear projection sets would go away in favor of plasma, and that'...the rear projection TV models designed in 2004 were the last ones'." BTW: I'm typing this with a Panny 700 and my $14 110" screen.
     
  16. Eric_L

    Eric_L Screenwriter

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    Nils, the idea of a HTF bash sounds interesting, but I don't see how to make it work on the search function...
     
  17. benjaminBen

    benjaminBen Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks for all the feedback. the reason i wanted to buy a panasonic is because i have a corprate account with them and get a pretty hefty discount. This is helping me a lot, i don't want to spend $3,000 and find out i didn't get my money's worth
     
  18. benjaminBen

    benjaminBen Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't know anything about projectors, can you get great quality from a projector? Or does it have to be set up perfect? what are the pros and cons to having a projector opposed to a T.V.?
     
  19. Eric_L

    Eric_L Screenwriter

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    I can answer this one;

    I've been using a projector for quite a while now. I'm not up on current models, but I can tell you about the experience.

    I love it.

    With a projector you can have a fantastic picture, but the viewing environment becomes much more important. You will need to have a room where the light is controlled. The darker the better.

    The picture can be FANTASTIC. Of course, you want the best projector you can afford for this. You also want a decent viewing surface. I have a DaLite screen, but since the hurricane we've been using a sheet in our rental and it works just fine!! In fact, because it is sound transparent I may say it is better (center channel right behind the picture) I have it pulled taunt and starched.

    Not to menton that the size is unbeatable. My normal viewing size is 8' wide. This, combined with the darkened room and higher viewing angle make for a very well rounded theater experience.

    Of course, sound is also important. I have a 700w 15" sub to help that along. While my house is being restored i also intend to wire for a few asskickers in my sofa. bada-whoomp!

    The only real down side I've noticed is the light issue. We can't really control the daylight in the room well (24' ceiling, windows frigin everwhere) so we can only watch movies at night. In the summer that gets kinda late. We're putting in power blinds as part of the recovery and we hope that helps. If you have a room where you can achieve a reasonably low level of light this won't be an issue.

    Setup is fairly simple, point and focus for the most part. You may need to trim the picture a bit to compensate for any angle issues, but that is pretty straight forward. I keep my projector of-center from the screen - not ideal, but with a bit of compensating with the settings it is unnoticeable.
     
  20. benjaminBen

    benjaminBen Stunt Coordinator

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    how much does a great projector cost (one that can handle 1080p)? I know this may be a stupid question, but can you run your T.V. cable through it and watch T.V. or do you have to have a T.V. for it. thanks
     

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