Need advice for Tempest in large room

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Jeff B., Jun 30, 2004.

  1. Jeff B.

    Jeff B. Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey guys, for the past few months I've been researching the best solution for a new subwoofer in my budding ht. After much thought I've decided that the DIY route will give me the best bang for my buck.

    I'll be going with a tempest, pe or rythmic 250w plate amp. For an enclosure I'll be building the adire alignment. My main concern is room size. My room dimensions are 25x25 with vaulted ceilings, and volume coming in at about 6800 cubic feet. There is one opening into the room -- a hallway. The doorway is 5 ft across, 8 ft tall.

    Will the tempest be able to perform well in such a large room with only 250 watts? I am not looking to achieve reference level bass, but I would definetely like to hear and feel much more of the low frequency stuff present on dvd's that I am missing right now. What type of spl can I expect with the setup I am looking at?

    I know in a room this size I could definetely live with much more woofer and power, but a DIY tempest project is probably the most I can manage to spend right now. If this setup wouldn't be ideal, what else could I do that would be better, but also not drain my bank account? I'm expecting the tempest project to end up costing me around $450 give or take a little bit, as I already have all the tools needed.

    I believe in just reading this forum I've started in the right direction.
    Thanks for your time in reading my post, and thanks to all of you already for posting such great information and ideas.

    Jeff
     
  2. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    That is very close to the dimensions of my HT room & you have fewer openings.
    That sub will DEFINITELY be enough for your room & you will
    not be able to use all of the 250W anyway with the Tempest
    in that enclosure. I have a slightly larger amp (360W) with that enclosure & you would destroy the driver before you ran out of amp....otherwise I did something wrong on my sub.
     
  3. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

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    No question about it, it will do fine. I have the exact same sub and have had it in two homes, each room was open to most of the rest of the house and it did just fine. One house had 20' vaulted ceilings. Should do better in your room compared to mine.
     
  4. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    That's a really big room. Different people have different expectations of what defines 'adequate' bass.

    What sub are you currently using?
     
  5. Jeff B.

    Jeff B. Stunt Coordinator

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    Right now I just have an 8 in onkyo 100 watt sub, and the room basically swallows it. I know the tempest is going to be a big step up, but i hear guys on here talking about their subs just pressurizing a room -- could a setup like this do that?
     
  6. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Well you're not going to pressurize a 6800 sq ft room with a single Tempest.

    You could come close with a high excrsion 15" and a big amp, but that's a little more than your budget allows.

    Well maybe not ......

    Are you limited in the size of the box you can use?

    If not, get a BP-1503 and a NADY power amp. Make a BIG ported box tuned to 18Hz. Then you'll understand what pressurizing the room means ........ [​IMG]

    Here's an example of a ported BP-1403 tube sub I built for a friend.
     
  7. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    TW....will the Sono sub you have here do as well as a BIG ported box (as you put it)???
     
  8. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Cam

    That is a pretty big ported box, err tube. Actually it's the smallest configuration we could use, to get the tuning and output we wanted.

    Note that there is absolutely no sound quality difference between a relatively lightweight tube sub, and a box sub that weighs hundreds of pounds. Some people just don't like the look of tube subs.

    I made a monster dual BP-1503 sealed sub called Tube-Zilla. It's a power hunger beast. Feed it 2000 watts it pretty much shakes my entire 4000 sq ft house ...:wink:


    Jeff

    There a other driver options. HERE's a pretty nice car woofer some of the IB people are using. It's fine for home use. Note that if OverStock is sold out google for other suppliers
     
  9. Jeff B.

    Jeff B. Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for all the replies guys. Thomas both of those tubes look great, you obviously know what you are doing. That blueprint sub looks like a real beast. I'm not sure if I could afford to power it right now. But that Nady sure looks like a great deal at 180 bucks and 900watts bridged However, the larger the box the less power I need correct? I don't really have too much restriction on box size. I'm planning on corner loading whatever I end up with.

    Now that you show me that blueprint its really got me thinking maybe I should go with a higher excursion driver. What do you think of the stryke av15? Its got an advantage in xmax over the tempest, but it wont do me any good if I can't power it correctly. It seems the tempest is a pretty efficient driver. What else should I be looking at that has more throw then a tempest but just as good efficiency?

    One more question for now. :b Should I be looking at tuning my box slightly higher then the adire alignment, say 20hz or so? Won't this give me more output from say 30hz and up.

    Sorry for all the questions I'm just new to all this. The more I learn though, the more I'm certain DIY is the way to go. I can see how you guys get so into all this. Its great fun planning everything out. It'll be even more fun once I get the sub in my room. [​IMG]

    Jeff
     
  10. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    Jeff,

    I just rechecked my room dimensions. I thought I remembered
    coming up with about 6600cu/ft for my room....I was WAY off, its only 3600cu/ft.
    Thomas is absolutely right (of course, lol).
    If you are currently used to that ONKYO, this Tempest would knock your socks off, but to "pressurize" that room, it aint gonna happen with what I get out of mine.

    But if you are like I was/am in the beginning, I had no
    clue what was out there or possible.....unfortunately (for my wallet, lol) I am finding out.....[​IMG]
     
  11. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Jeff

    If I don't a lot of people are going to be really angery ...:wink:

    When available the AV-15's will be a good driver. Now that John J. is hand building the majority of his drivers there maybe a considerable delay (months last time I heard) in getting AV-15.

    Take a long hard look at the DB Drive PL15D4. Those a good drivers and the price is right.

    There's almost nothing available from a performance standpoint that fits between a Tempest, and the newer high excursion drivers.

    There's this thing with regard to driver design. It's called Hoffmans' Iron Law. Basically it defines the performance characteristics that drivers can have. And no high efficiency, and high excursion can't exist in the same driver. That's sort of like asking for great gas mileage from a big block V-8 engine

    Larger boxes are 'somewhat' more efficient that smaller boxes, just like ported boxes are 'somewhat' more efficient than sealed boxes. Unfortunately these differences aren't enough to allow the use of a 250 watt plate amp in a huge room powering a high excursion driver.

    Also IMO ALL subwoofers need EQ. And we're not talking about the goofy EQ on a plate amp. We're talking about a Behringer DSP1124P ~$100-120. Most high excursion drivers need more EQ than something like a Tempest. That's another reason to have a bigger power amp. EQ uses amplifier power.

    My suggestion for tuning the high excursion drivers is to target 18-19Hz. They start rolling off higher than drivers like the Tempest. So you tune them low to get the max boost from the port and let room gain fill in the 30Hz area.
     
  12. Jeff B.

    Jeff B. Stunt Coordinator

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    Cam,

    I know pretty much anything will destroy what I have right now, but that doesn't keep me from wanting as much bass as possible. [​IMG] And yes I am too finding out all the options I have. The more I look, the more I find I'm increasing my budget. [​IMG]

    Thomas,

    Well it looks like the av-15 is out of the question then, I want to get started on this as soon as possible.

    So basically if I want high excursion and high output I need a much bigger amp. I'm now thinking maybe a bp1503, with the nady amp you suggested. Would Fan noise be an issue with this though? All my equipment is next to the t.v. in the room -- viewing distance is about 10 feet. Would the fan be a nuisance from there?

    With regards to the DB Drive PL15D4, I can't seem to find actual specs on it. What kind of throw and efficiency are we talking with this sub? And you mentioned people are using it IB, which really isn't an option for me. So, I assume it does ok in other environments as well.
     
  13. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Yes there will be fan noise. That's unavoidable in low buck prosound amps. The best bet for low buck high watt power amps without fans is to look for old used prosound or older home power amps.

    T/S parameters for the Db Drive driver are listed at the link below
    http://www.dbdrive.net/tech/speakerspecs.html

    Understand that an IB is just a really BIG sealed box. Yes this driver will work fine in a ported tube/box tuned to 18-19Hz.
     
  14. Jeff B.

    Jeff B. Stunt Coordinator

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    Alright well thanks for all your input Thomas, as well as everyone else. It looks like acoustic-visions.com is closed for the weekend, so I'll have to wait till the 5th to place an order. They have the tempest,the bp1503 as well as a number of plate and pro audio amps.

    This will definetely give me something to think about over the long weekend. [​IMG]

    Jeff
     
  15. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    Jeff...............


    What have you decided??




    Or have I missed a new post?
     
  16. Adam Demuth

    Adam Demuth Agent

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    Cam, just thought I'd let you know that your posts have helped me decide on what I am getting. I've decided on a Tempest in a Adire ported enclosure with a Rythmic 250 amp. I was worried about 250 not cutting it appearantly it will [​IMG].

    My room is 16' x 10' that opens up into a slightly smaller sized dining room (via 6' x 8' doorway) My current system (and budget) can't afford an insane sub. Also, I live in a (very old) duplex with good insulation. The neighbor and I have a pretty good relationship: I put up with his parties and he puts up with my HT... I'm afraid I'd break that pact with much more sub.
     
  17. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    Hey Adam......[​IMG]

    I am glad it helped you decide, I am VERY happy with my
    Tempest & I know you will be as well.


    Unfortunately......................


    Your neighbor is going to HATE YOU....[​IMG]


    If you have this against an adjoining wall (and this might not even be neccessary) you are going to be rattling everything on his walls if you get anywhere "near" reference
    level & even at low volumes on some of the "popular" scenes
    for good bass....


    Just be sure to invite him over to watch movies with ya sometimes.....[​IMG]
     
  18. Adam Demuth

    Adam Demuth Agent

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    Fortunately I have movie night Mondays, basicly my neighborhood friends come over on Mondays and we watch a movie. He's been to a couple, this should encourage him to experience it versus be annoyed with it.

    As far as rattling stuff on his walls, it's a bachelor pad and he's in college... his place is bare [​IMG]. I'm actually surprised with how well the wall between us insulates... I've heard some commotion over at his place and some good thumpin', (only in my living room, they are on adjointing walls, I've never heard anything while I'm in my bedroom) and then later get invited over to find out he was having a good sized sized party with his system cranked, I think more noise was coming from my front door than the wall [​IMG]. I know if it's too loud he'll come over and say something instead of calling management or the police. I can't wait though [​IMG]
     
  19. Jeff B.

    Jeff B. Stunt Coordinator

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    Cam,
    I went with the tempest and pe 250w. Both should be arriving in the next couple of days. I figured I should try something relatively simple for my first diy project. There is tons of documentation and help out there for this setup, so I figure its probably the best thing to do for right now.


    I have a feeling this is only the beginning though...
     
  20. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    Very Cool, Jeff........

    I KNOW you will like it






    LMFAO.............


    If you only knew.............[​IMG]
     

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