Need a small, musical subwoofer for my new high-end computer speakers

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Wayne A. Pflughaupt, Mar 20, 2005.

  1. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    6,207
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Real Name:
    Wayne
    Well, I picked up a pair of Swans M-200 computer speakers the other day, and I must say I’m very impressed. With everything but the bass, that is. I asked around before I bought them and was told that their bass response was good enough that I wouldn’t need a subwoofer. Wrong.

    So – I’m looking for a suitable sub to round these babies out. Basically, something small, deep and accurate. I’m thinking 8” tops, preferably sealed. Doesn’t need a lot of output, but I’d like good extension - at least down to 30 Hz.

    If I remember from an old Stereo Review face-off, M&K made at least one sub that would fit the bill, and I’m looking out for one on eBay, but judging from the scant number of M&K’s in the finished auctions, that might take a while.

    Does anyone have any recommendations? I don’t mind eBaying it (would prefer too, actually), so it can be a discontinued model.

    Thanks,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  2. JimMIT

    JimMIT Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    10
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Real Name:
    Jim
    Look at the REL Quake; it may be what you're looking for. It's a small, downfiring sub made by a reputable British manufacturer noted for their subwoofers. I've never heard it but I've read in several places that it is powerful for its size and is musical (read accurate). Don't know how much it costs; I suspect it's on the expensive side.

    Here's a link: Quake
     
  3. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Another thing to consider is the crossover. If your sound card has a sub out and the drivers support some decent crossover options it won't be an issue. If not the sub you buy should have a decent crossover built in.

    That Rel doesn't have the crossover complement Rel is famous for. Go up a few models and you'll find it though.

    I'm partial to DIY though, so I'd recommend an Adire Koda 8" paired with an Adire HS200 plate amp. The HS200 is a little pricy but it will get you an excellent crossover with variable 4th order high and low pass filters.
     
  4. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wayne,

    I can't remember if you've ever done any DIY'ing before or not, but that Tang Band 8" driver with a pair of Dayton 8" PR's in an 11" external cube looks pretty good. At least from a simuation point, that is.

    If you're not into DIY, tell us what your budget is and what kind of size restraints you have.
     
  5. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    6,207
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Real Name:
    Wayne
    Dustin, thanks for the suggestions. I’ll definitely look into it.

    Brian, I’m a pretty decent DIYer, but a little weak in the woodworking department, mainly because I don’t have all the power tools. I could handle building a box, but for veneering I’d probably have to turn it over to a friend of mine who’s a carpenter.

    I’m watching an eBay auction for a M&K MX-70 (dual push-pull 8”) that measures 18” x 13” x 12”. I could live with that size.

    As far as budget, I’d like to get out for under $200; that’s why I’m e-Baying. We just move into a new place that we’re fixing up, so funds will be a little tight for a while. I may opt for a cheap “throw down” sub from Yamaha or similar for the time being.

    Do you have any links for the Tang Band and Daytons you’re talking about there?

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  6. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi Wayne

    The TB-8" Brian mentions, #W8-740C Tangband, I don't know if or where you can get them anymore.

    Nuera-Acoustics (now gone) used to carry them, and I belive Creative Sounds used to get theirs from them. They don't show it on the Creative site currently. They sold for like 32.00 to 40.00 plus shipping depending on where you bought, and how many.
    Brian may know (who and where to get it) if one was interested.

    Low FS for an 8" (as best as I can remember), and 12-mm one way X-max..
    Venting it, seems the problem so PR's are the way to go I'd imagine, unless your into folding a long slot port in a now not so small box.

    The PR's I'm sure are these **HERE** that he's refering to.

    Different Driver:
    A little more expensive is the TangBand 8x12, that you can check out **HERE* if you like..

    I have not run any sims on this driver so
    I have no idea if it would work for what your looking for.


    Brian:
    ******
    ==>
    Please correct me if I'm wrong (on the PR's) and maybe you can give him a link to the TB-8", (could not find one anywhere)..!!!
    ==>

    The 8"TB driver/dual PR set up would be the most cost effective for sure and pretty simple to build. PR's would limit out put from what I can see long before the driver runs out of steam.

    Regards
    Geoff ¥
     
  7. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    6,207
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Real Name:
    Wayne
    Thanks for the time and effort Geoff. [​IMG] Pretty wild-looking driver, that 8” x 12” Tangband!

    Poking around Parts Express got me this:

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-480

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-784

    At these prices I’m tempted to try a DIY! The only thing is the spec sheet of the Dayton doesn’t recommend any cabinet sizes for the woof, or the slope of the plate amp’s crossover. 12 dB/octave, I presume?

    Are those Vas figures indicating the size of the enclosure – 3 cu. ft. for the Tangband and 1.4 for the Dayton?? That’s what one website I dug up about T/S parameters indicated. If so that’s freakin’ huge for drivers that small...

    If you get the impression I know very little aboutT/S – you’d be right. [​IMG]

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  8. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Geoff,

    Yes, those are the PR's, and you're correct. Even with a pair of them, the PR's are the limiting factor in the design. I don't remember what company it was that bought out Nuera Acoustics. I haven't bought any TB drivers in a while so I haven't kept in the loop on that.

    Wayne,

    In general, the lower the Vas, the smaller the required enclosure for a given alignment. But note that Fs and Qts also affect enclosure size.

    Actually, the shielded DVC driver and that amp could make for a nice little sub. If you wanted to go sealed you could go with .5ft^3 heavily stuffed for a Qtc around .7. Anechoic F3 would be around 50Hz but I think with good placement you could be relatively flat down to 35Hz or so. Hell, you could use one of PE's enclosures if you wanted to and still be around your $200 budget.

    A ported enclosure needs to be around 1.5-1.7ft^3 and tuned to somewhere between 26-30Hz, which is a bit big for an 8" driver.

    Another driver to consider is the Dayton Quatro. It doesn't go super low in a sealed enclosure, but put it in roughly 1ft^3 tuned to 35Hz and you should have an F3 around 32Hz. With that 70W amp you'll never exceed Xmax until you're down below 28Hz, which would be a lot to ask of an 8" woofer.
     
  9. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Always late to the party, Brian filled in the blanks already. [​IMG]

    Some nice simple ideas he tossed out their..

    Now wheres that TB-8", cheap mean little driver. After doing a little more searching, seems it became quite populer with the car audio guys..
    Even some group buys were set up, so maybe their just plain all gone..

    What about Apex Jr's 8". 2nd down the page I belive. A few projects are their already using it. Dose not apear to be a bottom Hz feeder tho, in norm alignments just from looking at the specs..

    http://www.apexjr.com/speakerstuff.html

    Seems well built from the looks of it, but not running any sims, lazy :b me, might be something to look at, or not.

    Quick and dirty:
    It looks not so bad in a .85, call it 1cf^³ box with amp, driver, & port in it. Tuned to 35-36 Hz with an F3 around 31. A little less effiecient than the other divers mentioned. Vented or Pr'ed looks much better than sealed when looking at/for extension.
    Also xmax looks somewhat conservitive to me at 4.9-mm one way given back plate thickness, etc #s..

    Cheers
    Geoff ¥
     
  10. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Geoff,

    I'll look at that Apex driver. Concerning the TB, I'm trying to find the name of the company that took over from Nuera. In the meantime, I still have 2 of them laying around![​IMG]
     
  11. Joey Skinner

    Joey Skinner Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I recently built a computer sub using the Tang Band 6.5in. subwoofer and the PE 70 Watt amp. Tried a sealed cab but it didn't have the extension so I built a ported enclosure and was impressed by the output and low extension. The cabinet is about 12" on all sides, .55 cu. ft. tuned to 32Hz. The port is a slot port 22" long, 10.5" wide, 1/2" high. I wished you could hear how good this little sub sounds. I was playing the beginning of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon with the heartbeat sound effect and my wife came in from another room and asked "What's that sound; are you doing that?" The sub is behind my monitor and is flanked by GR Research AV-1 speakers. This setup is for music only; I don't watch movies on my computer so I don't know how the sub would do on really low freq effects. Woofer and Amp were $92 shipped from Parts Express and the cabinet was made from scrap MDF.
     
  12. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    6,207
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Real Name:
    Wayne
    Wow, pretty impressive, Joey! Hard to beat that price - I think I’m going to take a hard look at a DIY.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  13. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wayne,

    Joey's actually onto something there. To make building a little easier let me suggest the following design:

    I'd go with a 12" external cube (assuming 3/4" MDF) with a 2" round port that's 8.5" long and stuff the enclosure with about 4-5 ounces of polyfill (around 1/4 lb.). This gives you a tuning frequency around 35Hz.

    Now going with Joey's 32Hz tuning does give you a little more extension, but it also gives up just a little bit of SPL. Also, the 35Hz tuning gives a little more protection against bottoming. And finally, the higher tuning keeps port length short enough to allow for the round port instead of a folded slot port, which adds a little difficulty to the building process.

    IMHO, either the design I've laid out or Joey's design will give you a great little sub.
     
  14. Joey Skinner

    Joey Skinner Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Actually the slot port was easy using 1/2" mdf. I used smaller pieces of 1/2" mdf as spacers to get an exact 1/2" slot. Whichever method you decide on, the sub will be a breeze to build compared to full size subs and you'll get plenty of SPL if you have it on your computer desk.
    Brian, should I stuff my enclosure with polyfill? http://www.msnusers.com/joeyskinnerp...hoto&PhotoID=2
     
  15. Joey Skinner

    Joey Skinner Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  16. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joey,

    Stuffing the enclosure will give the sub a more gradual rolloff and probably give a little flatter in room response. In other words, it'll probably sound a little more accurate. I'd probably try a little in there and see what you think of it. If you don't like it you can always remove it.
     
  17. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeh that looks to be a nice tiny little puter sub, speaking to using the 6.5 TB.

    Either way, port or slot looks almost to easy. The slower roll off with Brian higher 35Hz tuning, not much given up in spl either compared to the 32Hz tuning, really not even a concern IMO.

    Nice little slot their Joey!

    Joey:
    So do you think the TB 6. is worth the money to those without wholesale accounts at PE.?

    Just curious of your opinion on the drivers Build Q and performace, now that you had time to play and listen to it???

    Your naked box looks very nice by the way!

    Regards
    Geoff ¥
     
  18. Joey Skinner

    Joey Skinner Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The neo magnet makes it small and light. I don't have a lot of experience with different speakers but I would have to say the build quality is excellent and the performance surpasses my expectations. It has handled everything I've thrown at it without a glitch. Right now I'm listening to the "American Beauty" soundtrack which will test any sub and it is filling up the 12' by 20' room with clean bass. I know what good bass sounds like because I have a 4x15" IB setup in my HT room. Here are the corrected Radio Shack spl meter results of some test tones:

    Hz SPL
    22..... 77
    23.5... 80
    25..... 79
    26.3... 79.5
    28..... 85
    29.5... 86.5
    31.25.. 88
    33..... 93
    35..... 95
    37..... 95.5
    39.4... 91.5
    41.7... 88.6
    44.2... 83.5
    46.8... 80
    49.6... 81.5
    52.5... 85.5
    55.6... 89.5
    These were taken at a higher volume than what I would normally listen. The mains start kicking in at about 50 Hz.

    $41.45 for the driver and $49.49 for the amp(free shipping on the amp) and I don't have a wholesale account,lol [​IMG]. I've heard of an 8" TB sub but I don't where to purchase one and the Dayton 8"Quattro might make a good minisub but for a near field small computer sub the 6.5 TB is all I need.

    "Nice little slot their Joey!"
    "Your naked box looks very nice by the way!"
    Careful, my wife is getting jealous! [​IMG]
     
  19. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nice!

    Well, better put some close on her then..! [​IMG]
     
  20. Raj_asaurus

    Raj_asaurus Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How exactly would you integrate a sub into that system if its made to run just 2 chan with the computer?
     

Share This Page