Need a new receiver (1 Viewer)

[Arthur S]

Hi JB

Actually the $2,800 Citation 7.1 was just slightly better than the Kenwood...but did not have the same harmonic correctness as my Nakamichi.

PS What kind of subwoofers do you like, if any?

 

[John Brill]

I'd give you my opinion but that would be off-topic for this forum. Perhaps if you posed the question in the Speakers and Subwoofer forum you would get better opinions there.

 

[Arthur S]

Thanks JB

Maybe I will...but it really wouldn't hurt to mention which subs you like...all in good fun...thanks again.

 

[Andy_A]

Just to point out when John B. originally posted he was saying the Yamaha and Denon are a better alternative than Pioneer. Not that they are a better alternative than HK. Again, selective reading..

 

[Arthur S]

Hi Andy A

I have exactly as much experience with HK as I need...I owned HK separates 25 years ago and the tuner signal leaked into the separate integrated amp...I had to get rid of them at a loss...I wouldn't buy anything made by HK except for my 70 pound 425 watt X 2 channel Citation 7.1 power amp...even though the difference between it and my $600 Kenwood 92 watt X 6 RMS (simultaneously) receiver sounds almost as good...however, neither sounds as good as my Nakamichi which has the best harmonic correctness I have ever experienced...whether it is through my KEF, Mission, JBL..or any of the other speakers I own. I continue to recommend Yamaha or Denon to anyone who does not want to have to be concerned with software or firmware problems...I am trying to help people avoid problem receivers...and why is it that virtually everyone on this forum is interested in Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon...there is a good reason...

 

[gene c]

While I agree that H/K seems to have a few more issues than some other brands, apparently a huge number of people are willing to take the risk in order to get the type performance they are looking for. Certainly others will disagree. I was also a little hesitant before getting a 435, but the $399 price was too good to pass up. So far, so good. Unfortunately an H/K 47 dvd player turned out to be somewhat disappointing. But so did a Denon 756. As for the big drop in price, I feel they are way to expensive at first but many are willing to pay. Doesn't bother me any. And an add I got from J&R has a Samsung BlueRay for $599. It was $999 4 months ago. Sell a bunch and the price goes down. As for a refurb from H/K, I think that might be the best way to get one, if that's what you want. I'll have my 520 forever. The 435, probably not.A few years ago it was H/K. Then Yamaha. Then the Pioneer 1014-1015-1016. Now it's Denon. These things go in cycles. P.S. you forgot about Onkyo .

 

[Arthur S]

Hi Gene

I decided not to edit my post to include Onkyo...where are the "huge number of people willing to take the risk of getting an HK receiver with software and firmware problems" on the HTF Forum?...as far as I can tell there are about 6 or 7 people who even care enough to even post anything about HK receivers...even if you don't care about people paying $3,000 one day for an HK 745, I DO CARE about people spending their hard earned money on something that is going to go down in price to $1,400 within a matter of days or weeks...with all due respect...I believe that people who paid $3,000 for an HK 745 must feel pretty bad when they see that they could have gotten the same receiver for $1,400 within a few days or weeks..I took a look at the AVS Forum...and some people have reported that their HK receiver blew up on them...and some have had them die within a matter of months...I would not buy any HK receiver...not new, not refurb, not anything...they do not do enough Beta Testing and they had no presence at the CES show and no literature at the CES show and people are wondering if HK is even worth discussing...all the talk is about Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, and Pioneer..with the possible exception of the lowest models in the HK lineup...and even then...I continue to recommend the Pioneer 816 to those who are looking for a full featured receiver that does not have the considerable risk of having software and firmware related problems...good luck with your HK receivers...I am trying to help people get the best equipment at the lowest price with the fewest problems...to each his own.

 

[gene c]

Now this bothers me. They should have done something at the biggest show of the year. BTW, I just came across a Denon 886 refurb @ secondact.com. for $299. Now that sounds like a heck-uv-a deal. Too bad it comes with that ugly remote though.

 

[Andy_A]

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum..._Receivers.jpg

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...7-page-38.html
see bottom of page for HK at 2007 CES.

Again, distortions and inaccuracies are added to Arthur S's generalizations and vagaries...

 

[Arthur S]

With all due respect Andy

I have as much experience with HK as I need to...how would you like to have to keep returning and exchanging HK receivers that depreciate by more than 50% in as little as one day...I am trying to prevent innocent buyers from ending up with a receiver that is buggy...may blow up...or sit in the shop time after time. I will continue to recommend Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, or Pioneer to those who don't want to be burned with HK receivers that haven't had enough Beta Testing and seem to lack sufficient engineering...I can point you to a thread at the AVS Forum that supports my position...To each his own.

PS How is it that there are only about 6 or 7 individuals on this forum that show any real interest in HK receivers?.

 

[gene c]

I, for one, don't really spend any time over there. To childish (I know, that's rich comming from me!). As I said earlier, the 2807 is the flavor of the month right now. Next year it will be something else. As for the 6-7 people showing any interest. Never did a count but from what I remmember, they are quality enthusiasts who really know their stuff. But that's all I'm going to say on the subject. My next avr looks to be from Marantz, Outlaw or maybe Rotel. If I get around to selling all this other stuff I have lying around! Oh, one more thing. Acsend sells H/K's, don't they?

 

[Arthur S]

Hi Gene

How is it that you continue to avoid reading the so-called childish post that I am willing to point you to...I don't consider the AVS Forum childish at all...they have some of the wealthiest and most knowledgeable poster that you can imagine...including ChrisWiggles...and if you think that ChrisWiggles is childish...you are sadly mistaken...I am not about to let 6 or 7 HK enthusiasts mislead innocent newbies into buying into HK which had a very minimal presence at CES compared to Denon...Denon is on the verge of raking in a huge number of new sales...a lot of people are interested in their new line-up that is due out in a couple of months...that will feature additional HDMI capabilities including HDMI 1.3...the new codecs for BluRay and HD DVD...a friend of mine is saving up to purchase the Denon 5805CI that is $7,200...with all due respect...I am glad to see that you have decided to look elsewhere for a new receiver...of those that you have mentioned...the Marantz sounds the most promising to me...all in good fun of course.

 

[gene c]

I'm sure Denon makes a fine product. But $7200 for an avr? I'd rather get a 3806 and a used Miata! Or, maybe higher end separates. Nice talking to you Arthur.

 

[Arthur S]

I completely disagree with you except with regard to Chris Wiggles...nice talking to you as well.

 

[gene c]

as well. Anyway, you can have the last word. I'm gonna go mow the lawn.

 

[Arthur S]

Thanks

I will continue to protect innocent newbies from the heartbreak of having to deal with unreliable HK receivers.

 

[John Brill]

Instead you'll refer them to the Pioneer 816/1016 with the wonderful MCACC feature that loves to set speakers at completely random settings and because folks are "newbies", won't know the difference.

Yes, that's right, the MCACC feature on the low end Pioneer stuff doesn't work. It's a marketing gimmick to sell more receivers for spec conscious consumers. It has been well documented that it doesn't work properly and I have tried it myself under different conditions. In fact, Pioneer would have done a better smoke and mirrors job if they had the MCACC always set all speakers to small with subwoofer crossover at 80hz with a distance of 8-10'. Then I'd almost believe it was doing something and therefore working.

And then there is the sound. If you like it muffled and constrained, the Pioneer 816/1016 is for you!

JB

 

[Mike Gov]

I would have to partially disagree that MCACC is a complete gimmick. I feel it works quite well setting the distances and SPL on the speakers. Where it fails, as I suspect all other AVR's do, is on the EQ. Yes, engaging the EQ on my 1014 receiver no matter how many times I have tried it and re-tried it, completely ruins the imaging and soundstage. I would agree that it "muffles" the sound. I think they need to concentrate on EQ everything below 80hz and forget about anything above that. All in all though, the mid-priced Pioneers (1014, 1015 and 1016) are one of the best bang for your buck receivers available. If you are powering 8 ohm easy to drive speakers, these receivers have more than enough power.

 

[Arthur S]

Hi JB

Are you in a position to take on the President of Consumer Reports again?...how many audio engineers do you think they have?...how many video engineers do you think they have?...they have a hand full of electronics editors...statisticians...they have been testing products and services for over 70 years...how long have you been conducting side by side tests of receivers under identical conditions...using the exact same program material?...using trained listeners?...and having access to all kinds of testing gear?...with all due respect and no offense...you ought to go to CRs annual open house or subscribe to the magazine before you pontificate from on-high about things you simply are not aware of...all in good fun of course.

PS I will continue to recommend the Pioneer 816 and 1016 to newbies who want full featured receivers, that are not problem plagued, (like HK), that need to sit around in the shop for weeks at a time due to sloppy engineering, software and firmware problems...I will continue to try to look out for the interests of newbies who are not minimalists or purists.

 

[John Brill]

This would be the same Consumer Reports who continually fail to publish testing criteria or methodology? I wonder what Suzuki, Isuzu, Iams, Evenflo, Graco, etc, etc, think of Consumer Reports testing methods? Also, didn't they "forget" to include a couple of models in their latest HDTV tests? Selective testing at its best, gotta love Consumer Reports.