NBA 2005 off-season

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Haggai, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    Thought we might have a new thread for the various coaching/personnel moves. Looks like Kwame Brown is going to the Lakers, in exchange for Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins. Not sure how much Phil Jackson will be able to get out of him, I wouldn't count on any sudden improvement.

    Dr. Jack is reporting that Pat Riley is on the verge of throwing Stan Van Gundy under the bus in Miami, moving downstairs to replace him as head coach. Apparently Van Gundy has said that he would only work for the Heat in his current position.
     
  2. Jan H

    Jan H Cinematographer

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    The Kwame Brown deal is a gamble for the Lakers, but it's a relatively low-risk one. Butler is expendable as there is a glut at small forward, and he is not a good defender. Likewise, there is no 'D' in Atkins either. I really haven't seen much of Brown's game (it's probably a good thing), but if he has as much talent as they say, it was a good move by the Lakers because PJ is not going to stand for the BS Brown pulled in D.C. The Lakers still need a point guard, and Anthony Daniels would be a good fit if they can get him. In any case, it looks like we'll be missing the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row.

    It looks like Cash-Daddy is going to rob Miami of the Federal mint. The Heat might win it all next year (then again, they might not), but how much is Shaq going to be able to give them in 2 years and beyond? This is the exact scenario Jerry Buss was trying to avoid, so good for him. Let someone else be capped out to 2010. If Riley dumps Van Gundy and the Heat don't win the title, he will be seen as the ultimate Benedict Arnold. If they do win it, nobody will care that he stole Stan's job.
     
  3. Kirk Tsai

    Kirk Tsai Screenwriter

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    I'm pretty happy about the upcoming Brown trade for the Lakers. The team wasn't going to go anywhere with Atkins playing point guard, so st least this gives the team more upside; how much is a big question though. We still desperately need a point guard instead of making Kobe penetrate and dish on every single possession. If they commit Brown to a starting role, then Odom could move back to SF, his ideal position.

    Ironic that Mr. Jordan's legacy pick is now under his old coach.
     
  4. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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    Dear Stan,

    Call Rick, he can tell you how to deal with getting jobbed for no good reason in favor of some coach with a rep and no real reason to expect them to do any better than you did.


    Ronnie gets some quality minutes in at the rookie summer league in Minny. Before that Ron had been playing some other summer ball in a NYC league. Looks like he is coming along and will be more than ready come the regular season. Now if the Pacers could only get Bender to play more than 2 of 5 games for fear of injury.
     
  5. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    Yeah, the Brown move is a decent trade for LA. Butler needs lots of shots to be effective, and anyone who plays his position on the same team as Kobe isn't going to get them, so taking on a big-man project in exchange isn't risking too much. Atkins is just in there to make the cap numbers work out.

    Carlisle did get jobbed in Detroit--various excuses were given about he wasn't getting along with the players, but it was obviously made up, as they clearly wouldn't have gotten rid of him just to go after some random assistant from another team or whatever. However, since they got a HOF coach who led them to one title (beating Carlisle's new team along the way, and without home court) and to Game 7 of the finals the next year, it was pretty clearly worth it for them to make the move. Maybe Carlisle could have accomplished similar things if he'd still been coaching Detroit when they traded for Rasheed, but he obviously couldn't have done any better than Brown did. It wasn't fair to Rick, but pretty much anything that contributes to winning a championship is worth it from my perspective.
     
  6. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    Ah, the life of Riley:


    Maybe a possible translation is "I'm still trying to think up some reason to fire him aside from just wanting to coach again."
     
  7. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Larry Brown is reportedly out as coach of the Pistons. Flip Saunders is the guy they have mentioned to replace him.

    I wonder if he'll take time off or consider the opening with the Knicks.
     
  8. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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    So the Pistons dumped a guy who "couldn't get them over the hump" (despite the team going farther the 2nd year), brought in another coach who also had never gotten over the hump, got a title and another near title out of it, and now are back to bringing in yet another guy famous for not being able to get his team over the hump despite having the talent to do so.

    I think Flip is a decent coach, but I don't think he's better than Rick or Larry.



    The big news in Indy is the battle between Indy and Cleveland to sign SarJas. There is a Cavs forum rumor that the signing of Big Z has helped them get SarJas signed for less than the Pacers offered, and that the only reason the story hasn't been broken is so that Jasikevicius can enjoy his vacation at an Israeli resort. Since he is a star for Maccabi Tel Aviv his signing with the NBA would bring lots of attention from reporters over there.

    Then again it could be that the deal just isn't done yet. The Cavs would be well improved if they could land the Mark Price like SarJas.


    Raheem goes to NJ, NJ fans think it means they are back. Most other fans wonder just what it is that SAR has ever won in the NBA up to this point.


    It does sound like Riley is just looking for a reason. Maybe he'll bump into him in the hallway and then get all defensive and start a fight with him. [​IMG]
     
  9. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    I have mixed feelings about the Larry Brown situation. I agree with Seth that Brown is a much better coach than Flip Saunders, and Detroit will miss Larry's coaching presence. However, the guy is also a major soap opera and nobody should be shocked that he will be leaving so soon. As I've said before, Larry Brown always leaves his bags packed when he takes a new job. I do not think anyone expected him to coach for his full five year contract here.
     
  10. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    Larry's exit is getting rather ugly, to no one's surprise. It's clear that he was just trying to get fired, rather than walking out and leaving all that money on the table. Dumars had been saying publicly that they wanted Larry back if he was healthy enough, but that was pretty clearly just counter-gamesmanship. In the end, though, Mitch Albom has it right here, in that it was obviously Bill Davidson's decision through and through. Similarly, I didn't see much point to most of the flak that Mitch Kupchak caught for trading Shaq and losing Phil, when anyone with half a brain could realize that Jerry Buss was the one making those decisions, regardless of what Kupchack wanted to do.

    Flip's a good coach, and we should finally get to see if Darko can contribute, but obviously he's not Larry's caliber. Just one example of that is the 2004 playoffs, when Minnesota had home court but lost to the Lakers, before Larry and the Pistons clobbered them without home court. And while Carlisle is undoubtedly a good coach as well, I don't know that he's that much better than Saunders. As I said before, I do think Carlisle was treated unfairly when Detroit cut him loose with some obviously trumped up excuses, but I don't think us Pistons fans have much to regret about it, considering what they accomplished under Brown.
     
  11. Brandon_T

    Brandon_T Screenwriter

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    Seth, I am not sure that you understand some of the things surrounding Ricks exit from here. Him and Ben Wallace had major issues with each other. Ben and Rip Hamilton both had said behind the scenes that if he was going to return as coach, they both would ask for trades. It was widely reported in Detroit here the near full mutiny of the team. I am not a proponent of giving in to player demands, but in this day and age, the players do have control.

    So while you can say that Carlisle go jobbed, the guy that replaced him did get to two finals, and one championship. I am not a big fan of the Flip move, but who else is out there that is better? I still think that the Pistons will be a major factor, and frankly, Saunders style is more up and down, wich could suit guys like Prince, Rasheed and Billups more.

    I don't think we will see much from Darko other than a trade, especially the way the draft pick is playing, Maxiell or however you spell it basically embarassed Darko in the summer league.
     
  12. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    Was it really that bad with Rick at the end of his Detroit tenure, Brandon? I don't remember any rumors of mutiny, although I wasn't following things in the local press very much, even though I did live in Ann Arbor.

    Edit: I mean, was it bad enough that they were seriously considering getting rid of him and just going after whomever else they could find? Having the chance to bring in a HOF coach is one thing, but finding some assistant from another team is something else entirely.
     
  13. Andy Sheets

    Andy Sheets Cinematographer

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    I think it's a good signing for them. They wanted a decent power forward, so they got one for a good price. SAR isn't the kind of guy you get to carry your team, so questions about "what's he ever done" aren't really appropriate, IMO (besides, the poor guy played for the Hawks and that would kill any player's soul). The real problem with NJ is that the guys who are supposed to carry the team, Vince Carter and Jason Kidd, won't get it done. Kidd's fine even if he's old, but I just don't think Carter's a very bright player.

    The Rockets got Stromile Swift last night. Eh, he could be solid or he could be Kelvin Cato, Part II. At least they got him without having to overpay and do a sign-and-trade.
     
  14. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    Not a major deal here, but I forgot something else that Seth said above, regarding SarJas:



    The NBA is already very popular in Israel, and if you watched or listened to some of the post-game press conferences in the playoffs, you could frequently hear questions from Israeli reporters. His coming to the NBA would certainly be a big deal there, but I don't know if it would increase the presence of reporters from there all that much. Certainly not to the extent that a native-born Israeli playing in the NBA would, that would bring all the lifestyle coverage as well, not just more stories on the sports pages. It looked like a guy named Oded Kattash was going to the be first one back in '98, as the Knicks were prepared to sign him, but then the lockout hit and he never came to the US.
     
  15. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    This was alluded to more than anything. Dumars and Davidson have a history of not talking at all about these behind the scenes issues, so it's not surprising that it's never been made public, except for the hushed rumors. One of the players would be more likely to talk about it, but this is a tight-knit group and they're not talking, either.

    I think this mindset is also what has contributed to the falling out with Larry Brown. During the past season, he's been linked to three other jobs (Lakers, Cavs and Knicks). The Piston organization frowns on all this public discussion, and Davidson/Dumars are tired of the constant speculation of where Larry's going next. The final straw had to be the Cavs rumors and talks that were going on in the middle of the team's playoff run.

    However, it's hard to feel sorry for Dumars/Davidson, since Brown's been this way his entire coaching career, so the Pistons knew what they were getting into when they hired Larry.
     
  16. Robert_Z

    Robert_Z Screenwriter

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  17. Jan H

    Jan H Cinematographer

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    Saw that Spurs DVD on sale at my local Costco. I passed on it, as did the rest of Southern California, from the looks of it. Besides, it looked mighty puny sitting right next to the Lakers Box Set. [​IMG]

    The Pistons were smart in letting LB go. He may not be healthy enough to coach well into next year. Saunders is a decent coach and the Pistons players will want to prove that they don't need Brown to be a great team.

    Abdur-Raheem was a very good pickup by the Nets.
     
  18. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    FWIW, InHD is doing a 30 minute special on the 2005 Spurs in High Defintion on Cable.
     
  19. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    Pistons owner Bill Davidson certainly didn't hold back his feelings towards Larry Brown in an interview with a local TV station yesterday. This was on ESPN.com this morning:


    Flip Saunders is expected to be named Detroit's new head coach at a press conference later today.
     
  20. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Antionio Daniels signed on with the Wizards to replace the departed Larry Hughes.

    Joe Johnson also signed with the Hawks but the Suns are going to match so I've read.

    As far as Larry Brown goes:

    $12 million per year?!?!?
     

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