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Narrowing down the list of amps...Need some help! (1 Viewer)

Scott H

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Mar 9, 2000
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693
Actually, any component (if it does not exceed the standard 19" width) can be rackmounted even if it was not originally design for it. Just use rack shelves and custom faceplates with the appropriate cutouts.
There's a difference between rack-mounted and rack-placement, and that's it. You can of course place any standard width component in a rack as long as you take care with heat and weight issues.
 

Scott H

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Mar 9, 2000
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693
don't think that just b/c a high profile athlete has something it is the best
No kidding.

I'm not particularly keen on Parasound (no offense to those who are), but for those who care, the only Parasound amp lines designed by John Curl are the HCA1000 and 1200. He designed aspects of the 1500, 2200 and 3500. He has commented that all are were sonically compromised during overseas production, saying "Most of the designs are competent in their price range, but they are not necessarily better [than] comparable components in the market place."

Regarding interchangably using the words "good" and "warm" regarding the sound of an amp... I never understand how a tendency toward "warm" is a positive attribute for an amp. It can be for other components (digital CD, for example, though I would prefer the word "smooth" or "musical") in consideration of price/performance tendency or room acoustics or whatever, but an amp should be accurate. My philosophy regarding amps is that they should be as transparent as possible and neither add nor detract, they should reproduce. It is the building block of a system. Change sources and speakers and cabling etc to color the sound, but don't taint it with the anchor of your system, and often the most expensive component. Ironically, it's about only component that I could understand purchasing without auditioning, based on a plethora of reviews and articles for instance, as a great amp may be rejected because it is revealing all the other faults in your system. IMO, an amp should never be used to correct sound, to "warm" it up for example.
 

Mike_T_

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 30, 2001
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198
Scott H, I hope I'm not misunderstanding what you just said, however... If I go spend $1700 for a new Amp, I REALLY hope I hear a massive difference in the sound. If not, I shouldn't bother spending the money. My Yamaha and Studio 100's can at times sound bright together, and from what I understand, a good Parasound Amp can "warm" the brightness as well as give the speakers MUCH more bass. If the Parasound tames the brightside of the speakers or "warms" the sound, I'll certainly feel that this is a benefit.
 

Scott H

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Mar 9, 2000
Messages
693
Mike, I think you are definitely misinterpreting my comments. :)
A preface though: if we were to all agree what "warm" means, and that it meant that compared to a transparent sounding and revealing amp the Parasound sounded "less bright", the Parasound would not be a great amp. It would be an amp that is coloring the sound.
You say your Yammy and Paradigms sound bright. If both components sound bright, obviously that is bad. However, if your Paradigms are brightish in nature and you put a great $10,000 amp in there your Paradigms should still sound brightish. If you are trying to EQ a system by adding an amp that is coloring the sound, IMO that is a bad approach (I'm not saying you are, just a point). I don't doubt that replacing the Yammy amplifaction with Parasound will benefit the Paradigms, and I know it's not an ideal world and we are always trying to find the perfect balance in our systems, but we fight negatives with negatives, like a forward speaker with a relaxed pre, I'm just saying that IMO the amp ideally should not be coloring the sound. It should be the cornerstone and to me it makes more sense to experiment with the other components once you have great amplification. And I'm being a bit honestly esoteric. I want an amp that is of high quality, transparent and musical, throws a wide and accurate soundstage, and from an investment standpoint is likely to retain much of it's value (many US made amps, for example, which can really factor into the feasability of the hobby).
Incidentally, I know that Paradigm is popular here, and this is mainly a HT crowd, but it is widely believed that the characteristics of Paradigm speakers make them more suited for HT than music, which I tend to agree. Many find them bright, though some prefer the words forward or dynamic. While I agree that they may be a good choice for mating with many recievers for HT (1050 comes to mind), I do not find their attributes positive in consideration of higher-end systems, especially two-channel where this may be more obvious due to good amplification.
 

John Tompkins

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Aug 30, 2000
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Scott H, very nice write up and true. An amp should do nothing but amplify and yes an amp shouldnt be used to warm up or for that matter brighten a system.
But in the real world with mid level systems and some high end systems, Amps do change the sound and some on purpose. Take the bob carver amp line for example they have a transistor {tail} on the end of the amplication to warm up the sound. Second, take a tube amp it really does nothing but add a little distortion causing the sound to be warmer. Lots of people pay big bucks for this type of thing. Is it right, maybe, maybe not as its just really a preference that one has. There are many things to factor in, a person should check some of the specs carefully, damping factor to a point, distortion values, etc. whether an amp doubles into 4 ohms . Also is it a mosfet design or some other design all add to sound perception. Say what you will but the amps mentioned do change the sound a bit. But as far as throwing words around like "warm", "bright" etc. I agree they are sometimes used too much. My preference has always been geared toward smooth inviting and a none fatiqing sound..call it warm or whatever you want to call it. An amp thats breaks up or distorts sometimes causes an amp to sound brittle or fatiqing or "bright";)
I had the McCormack dna-1 deluxe 2 channel amp that retailed for 2600.00, Man this amp came off to me as sounding too warm or polite, good for music but not for ht which brings me to my next point. Its very hard for a reasonable price to get an amp thats good for both ht and music. I will always aire on the side of music first but others may not again I guess it depends on ones priorities, speakers and pocketbook. The parasound 2205 was the only amp in my system {nht 2.9 towers} that was good for both ht and music, revealing but smooth and lots of dynamics too.
Having said that, it is my opinion that a pre-amp and speakers makes a much bigger difference then an amp does as far as tonal qualities go.
 

Chris Rein

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Joined
Apr 18, 2000
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245
This is turning into a great thread. I'm learning more by the minute!
In all honesty, I like the way my Yamaha 2095 sounds, but I KNOW that adding an amp would make it sound much better, not to mention that my speakers are BEGGING for more power. And to comment on the recent posts, I want it to amplify and reproduce the sound. I would actually prefer one that is not "colored" or too "warm" but rather a "just right" match with my M&K S-150's. Smooth and dynamic, as John stated, is what I'm after.
As for the Halo line, I found this...
Link Removed
Scroll halfway down. And you can see the new Aragon's too. Mmmm, such beauty. The light would look wonderful with my Sony 9000ES DVD player! ;) There's a lot of good stuff in there if you click the "days" at the bottom.
Chris
 

Scott-C

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Jul 23, 2001
Messages
863
Great thread here. Given what all of you have said, can we put together a list of some amps that we feel are neutral? I know, I know, everyone will differ here based on their experiences, equipment, etc. Still, I'd like to hear of some 5-channel amps that for the most part are neutral. For example, EvanS has told me that he feels his Anthem MCA5II (do I have the model # correct), to him, seems very neutral and revealing - an admirable quality for an amp. What are some others?
Guys, don't misinterpret this post as I don't want to instigate a flame war here. Again, I'm well aware everyone will differ on this issue. Perhaps if someone lists an amp, they can list their associated equipment with it as a reference.
I'll soon be in the market for a good multi-channel amp, primarily for HT. Assuming others are in the same boat as me, some suggestions might be very welcome. Here in Baltimore, the options for demo'ing equipment are pretty limited, so reviews and word-of-mouth help a lot!
 

John Tompkins

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Aug 30, 2000
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658
Well, the most neutral amp that I have owned by a long shot was the citation 7.1 4 X 150. I mean it was dead nuts neutral down the middle. If somebody want totally neutral please give the citation 5.1 or 7.1 a try. Also they are bridgeable, get great reviews and can drive anything..They are discountinued so you will have to buy used. These amps are monsters..
See I told you'll when I put together that list of amps I have owned that I forgot a few;)
ScottC, three words (get the parasound). Just kidding but it is a great amp.
 

Michael Marklund

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Mar 3, 2002
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160
This is(!) becoming a great thread. And it's of particular interest to me. I'm in the process of auditioning speakers (see separate thread) and I am already running across the amp coloring dilema. Scott, I could not agree with you more, an amp should be totally transparent and your choice of speakers should end up tailoring the sound to one's own preference. (note: this may not always be possible if you already have your chosen speakers.)

I was all ready to call the Outlaws for their new 755, but now that I started listening to speakers, I have to wonder how much speaker I am hearing and how much amp I am hearing.

RAF, if you read this, could you give us your impression of the 755 as to warm, revealing, etc.? And to all others, keep the input coming, these amps are one's Ive started to look at. (150-220wpcx5)

Thanks,

MM
 

Aslam Imran

Second Unit
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
286
Based on my experience all else being same the quality of these amps in decreasing order of warmth is:

1) B&K - Warmest

2) Parasound - Warmer

3) Rotel - Warm

4) Anthem - Lean

5) Aragon - Analytical

I am not saying one is better then the other but you have to match them properly to the speakers to get a neutral sound. For example if you mate an Aragon with Klipsch you will see smoke coming out of your ears. Klipsch's are better mated to a B&K or even better, a Tube amp. My friend has a Klipsch mated to a tube amp and you wouldn't believe the sound that comes out of this combo.
 

RobertW

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Feb 27, 2000
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based on what little auditioning i have done:

parasound-warm

rotel-neutral

anthem-pretty neutral

acurus-dry, leaning toward bright

ati-bright
 

Chris Rein

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 18, 2000
Messages
245
I'm seeing "warm" being pretty much standard on Parasound. Hmm. This is definitely getting interesting. I have to see what my local dealers have in stock and go try them out!

Chris
 

Aslam Imran

Second Unit
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
286
Usually FETs have warmer characteristics compared to BJTs. B&K uses FETs in both input/output stages giving it the warmest sound. Parasound uses FETs in the input and BJTs in the output stages (like Classe) still keeping the warmth of the FETs and the snap of the BJTs. All the others use BJTs in the input and output stages sacrificing some of the warmth. Some more so than the others. Like Rotel is leaning towards warm/neutral while Aragon/ATI are leaning towards bright/analytical.
 

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