My New Samsung DLP HLN437W Questions?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Chris Kampmann, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. Chris Kampmann

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    Hello everyone,

    I just bought the new samsung 43" DLP, It was delivered on Superbowl sunday. So for 3 days now I've had it and tinkered with it. I'm very pleased with it's performance so far. I owned a 36" Proscan before this. The biggest reason for our purchase of this TV was that it would fit into the "media nitch" of our house. It measures width 40 3/4" the samsung was 40 1/2" and obviously with the depth around 16" that was a huge plus. The other two TV's we considered were the Sony XBR 34" CRT and the Mitsubishi 42" RP CRT both of those tv's were way too deep for my tastes so we ended up with the samsung.
    We also bought the Pioneer DV-563A DVD player to go with it, after spending 3k on the TV it was hard to go any higher on the DVD part. So here are my questions? Was it stupid to go with the component video out on the DVD player when I could get one with DVI, I figured I would save the DVI input for when I get High Definition? When I played Finding Nemo on the new DVD player there is the scene when the Deep Sea fish is chasing the 2 fish with the mask. When he made sudden movements everything went all blocky on the fish. Would this be caused by the DVD player or the TV. What recomendations would you make as far as getting it calibrated? Home Theater Magazine said the TV got more off on the normal color scale after calibration. How could this be assuming that calibration would of made this better? Would you recommend going back to ciruit city to get the extended warranty for 600 bucks. I figured the one year on it would be sufficent. I know my questions are all jumbled but I wanted to get this post on and I will update it frequently so I can get it straight. Thanks for taking your time to read this and possibly help me out thanks. Chris
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    Have you noticed anything else on any other movies?

    Nemo, has some oddities, that can give certain sets fits for whatever reason.
     
  3. Leo_P

    Leo_P Second Unit

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    Maybe you should try setting your DVD player to output in 480i and see how the SAMSUNG set's Faroudja chip does, compared to the DVDP.
    FWIW, I have a Sammy HLN-4365 and a HD-931 DVI DVD player. The way I see it, you just dropped about 3 G's on a TV. Why not spend another $~300 to get the best picture quality from your DVD's?
     
  4. Chris Kampmann

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    So That's one of my questions, Does DVI make that big of a difference in picture quality. If DVD is only 480 lines of resolution, then my thought is component inputs will work just fine. I did almost get the samsung DVD player with DVI out but does it really warrant a 150 dollar difference + cable. Also if anyone else want to chime in I called the local AV shop for a qoute on ISF Calibration. He said 275 for the calibration the 125 for each input. My calculations put that over 500 buck for me. Doesn't sound quite worth it to me. But I'm all up for opinions Thanks in advance.
    Chris
     
  5. Chris Kampmann

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    Sorry John,
    No I haven't noticed any other stuff in any other DVD. So the only thing I can put it on is the the DVD player not being able to keep up with the movie. Although I suppose it could be the TV. That's why I'm asking. But to my previous post would putting my Pioneer DVD player to 480i let my samsung do the progressive scanning? Not sure what to do about that. Thanks
     
  6. John S

    John S Producer

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    yes, your samsung will display 480p if input 480i from the component video. With some sets this does seem to work better than 480p input.
     
  7. Randy_Sh

    Randy_Sh Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Chris,

    Recently just purchasing the HLN437W as well. In a similar situation with size requirements. Have about 1/4" on the sides but tons in the rear for clearance. Couldn't pass that up.

    Had it for about 2 weeks now. Waiting for Comcast guy to show up with the HD Cable box. I went ahead & bought a DVI cable for the set knowing that I do not have DVI capablity yet for HDTV or DVD quite yet.

    I have an 3+ yr/old Toshiba DVD player (non-progressive) and with component cables and allowing the Faroudja chip in the TV to handle things, I am impressed. Watched several DVDs that look absolutely awesome. Not NEMO though. Now, I am debating upping the wow by getting the Sammy DVI DVD player. Not yet though.

    Also, before getting an ISF or really changing menu settings, I would follow others advise and let the lamp burn in for about 100 hours or so. Apparenlty, the sets colors improve and settle in a bit.

    Also I stuck with the 1 year manufacturer warranty as well.

    Enjoy!
     
  8. ChrisTheg

    ChrisTheg Agent

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    Well guys here's the scoop. Calibration on this set is for the most part pointless. Someone mentioned letting it set it and they are correct. The set does look better as time goes on. The pixelization you described as you were watching Nemo is just an unfortunate trait of the TV. The technology does not prohibit what's called "dithering." What this means is the amount of time the microscopic mirror inside takes to move back and forth causes this. TV's such as LCOS do not have this problem but I dont think they are as good. DONT BUY THE CINEOS by PHILIPS. I am in the business and it sucks. WAY TOO MANY PROBLEMS!
    Anway, it really shouldn't matter what dvd player you use on it just as long as it is an alright one. Nothing too cheap! Oh the last thing is, the person who said they got the HLN467w at Circuit City, I would check your information because to the best of my knowledge they are only allowed to sell the HLN465w. Thats it for now.
     
  9. Chris Kampmann

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    Hello guys,

    Thanks for all the replies, I hate to sound like an idiot sometimes but we all can only know so much. Always learning though. I've since contacted Dish Network and since their free HD box has a DVI output I'm gonna save that for HDTV. Randy also I've read about and looked at the DVD player you speak of from samsung. To my knowledge, (or it could've been the BB store I was in) the Samsung did not deliver the greatest picture I've ever seen through DVI hence the reason I went with the Pioneer (and it plays SACD) But that's just my two cents worth. If I've already messed with the settings on the TV to get them where I wanted them should I go back to the factory settings and let the bulb burn in? Any opinions on Dish Network HDTV would be apprieciated. Thanks in Advance you guys are always awesome
    Chris
     
  10. Chris Kampmann

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    Also, I know this is a flaw of this TV but this whole "rainbow effect" is starting to get a little more noticable. If any one has any clue about this problem, I.E. will it go away, or will I possibly get used to it? That would be great. It seem to be more perdominent in Darker scenes vs. lighter scenes. Thanks for any help in advance.
     
  11. Jason GT

    Jason GT Second Unit

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    Dithering is not caused by movement of the mirror, rather it's a function of the way that colors are produced on DLP. Single-chip LCoS, such as the Philips Cineos does I believe have similar rainbow/dithering issues as the Samsung DLP.

    To Chris: you MAY get used to it -- but I don't know. it won't go away, it's inherent in the way that single-chip DLP produces a picture. Your observation is correct; it is generally most noticeable in dark scenes (specifically when a light colored object is moving against a dark background).
     
  12. Chris Kampmann

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    Yeah I watched 2 more movies on it last night and it doesn't seem like it wants to go away. I don't know if I'm going to take it back yet. I only have about 20 hours on it so far. One thing is, I don't notice it on Video Games, and regular TV seems to be OK. I think I'm gonna try a DVD player with DVI output to really get a feel for it. I just need to watch more and see if it's a problem I can deal with or if I should take it back and wait for the next-gen TV's to come out.
     
  13. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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    That DLP Samsung TV utilizes a 5x color wheel. So you would have to be *extra-sensitive* to "rainbows" to notice them with that set.

    As to the "dithering", I doubt you would ever notice it outside of that one scene you described from the Nemo movie. A good deal of the picture information has to be exactly the same in multiple consecutive frames (without gradations) for it to manifest itself to that large of a degree. Except for an "all digital" movie like Nemo, most source material would only offer a challenge like that in perhaps one scene out of a couple of thousand.

    If your DVD player offers a choice of black levels (many do), I would set it to the "Normal" and/or "Less Dark" setting. This will probably help out with both your "rainbow" and "dithering" problem. If you are able to adjust this setting you should also turn down the brightness level on your set a bit at the same time.

    I would also try running your DVD player into one of the s-video inputs, while keeping your player plugged-in to one of the component inputs (and still set to progressive). That way you could switch directly between the two while viewing the same scene to help you make a proper comparison. A friend of mine owns this same set and he reports the picture to look far smoother via the s-video than the component. (He does state that the black level is better via the component, but it's not enough of a difference for him to give up the smoother de-interlacing being afforded by the internal Faroudja chip.)

    Good luck!
     
  14. Mark Romero

    Mark Romero Second Unit

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    I just ordered this TV. I hope I made the right choice.
     
  15. Jason GT

    Jason GT Second Unit

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    The connection type should not affect whether you see rainbows or not.

    As for TV vs movies, I'd say that this is largely due to the fact that the majority of TV shows are brightly lit, that dark scenes are more common in movies.

    That said, the samsung DLP definitely fares much better in daylight/well lit environs than dark ones.

    Joseph: there is no real need to go with S-vid. IIRC the 480i/p connection on the back of the TV, if fed a 480i signal, goes through the Faroudja processing.
     
  16. Jeremy Little

    Jeremy Little Supporting Actor

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    Several of the recommended HT viewing traits help reduce the amount of rainbows you see. 1. Don't sit too close to the tv, this makes you have to adjust your eyes to see action on both edges of the screen. When you move your eyes they can momentarily catch up to color wheel making the rainbow jump out at you. Sitting the proper distance will lower that chance. 2. Use proper backlighting. You mentioned seeing them mainly on dark scenes. From experience, I am going to say that you also had a bright object on the screen at the same time. Something like a candle, window, mirror reflection or the like. Having the proper backlighting will reduce the rainbow effect as well as helping the contrast by making the blacks more black.

    The Pioneer DV-563A is a good player, but if you stick with it you should run it at 480I. The Samsung has a DCDi internally which is far superior to the one in the Pioneer. The reason for the Samsung DVI-HD is upconversion. The DLP is 1280x720 native resolution. DVD's are 720x480. The Sammy player will use its own DCDi chip to scale the DVD resolution up to 1280x720 and when sent to the TV, the TV displays that directly via 1:1 pixel mapping. The differences are subtle on some movies and large on others. I think it is worth it, but there are some new scaling players coming out which may be even better.

    By the way, I have an HLN-4365 and the DVD-HD931. I have had a Panasonic DVD-RP91 and this is much better.
     
  17. Leo_P

    Leo_P Second Unit

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    One thing that hasn't been touched on, is the whole "DVI vs. component" thing.
    Component (interlaced OR progressive) is an analog signal. So your player takes the DVD (digital) converts it to analog, sends it out through the component cables to your TV's input (analog), then your DLP (or any other digital TV) converts it back to digital. So basically, it's D/A -> A/D. This conversion CAN introduce all kinds of artifacts, but most player's and TV's do a good enough job.
    With DVI you have no analog involved. It's straight D -> D. So everything being equal, DVI has the potential for better PQ. But, everything is NOT equal. The Samsung DVI-equipped player (and the Bravo, if I'm not mistaken) upconvert to 720p and/or 1080i.
    IMHO, DVI wins hands-down.[​IMG]
     
  18. Chris Kampmann

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    Thanks for all the input guys, I really do apprieciate it. I know this is all a learning process and I am definitly learning. To anyone who is considering or has already purchased this set. Don't be freaked out! My wife hasn't even noticed the problem I speak of. It is a very MINOR problem in my eyes but I also look at the other end of the spectrum and think for $3K that I want to make sure I made the right choice. But not to overstate do not make your personal choice on what I've commented on. It's just something you have to see for yourself. Chances are you might not ever notice this. I LOVE this TV it blows my 36" Proscan out of the water, but I am just making sure I made the right choice.

    To address another question: What type of personal disc can you get to help me calibrate this better?
     
  19. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    i also have the samsung 931 connected via dvi to my mits 65".

    the picture is significantly better - even my girlfriend noticed it.

    i just hate that i still have a final d-to-a conversion. at least you'll be totally digital. if at all possible, get a hold of a dvi-equipped player and see for yourself.

    like someone said, you just spent 3k on a tv, why not get the best possible dvd player? i had a customer come into bb a couple of days ago. he bought the same tv and ... a combo vcr/dvd player. [​IMG] i almost rolled my own eyes ... then i gave him the riot act!

    thank goodness he saw the light....
     

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