My new 40XBR800 - can this problem be ISF'd out of it?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Scott Barnhart, Oct 15, 2002.

  1. Scott Barnhart

    Scott Barnhart Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,
    I just got the new Sony 40" XBR800 direct view set. What a beast! I'm glad they send big delivery guys! [​IMG]
    Anyway, after hours of tweaking and doing the Video Essentials changes, I am pretty satisfied with the picture. My geometry looks great to me on all the test patterns, my overscan is between 3-6% everywhere, and on progressive DVD and good laserdiscs the picture is stunning - except for 2 things. On an all-white or all-light-gray screen, I am seeing that the top-right corner looks somewhat blue - enough to be annoying when white screens are up. And also that the far left has a barely-noticeable vertical streak that is a little bit darker, with it making a funny pattern near the top of the streak. Here is a simulation of the problem, where I have greatly exaggerated it:
    [​IMG]
    What causes these problems? Can they be ISF'ed out? It is not noticeable at all when there are "normal" scenes, just very bright-white scenes like a bright daylight, etc.
    If it can't be ISF'ed out, do you think that it is worth going thru the exchange hassle, especially considering I got one with no geometry problems (at least none that I see)? Are these problems inherent in the XBR chassis?
    Also, is there a particular test pattern on either Video Essentials or Avia for checking convergence? I would like to check that too.
    One other note - analog cable was *horrible* right out of the box, but with lots of patience, tweaking, and some good DRC advice on a Sony forum, I was able to make it look really good, where only the weakest signals look a little snowy/fuzzy. So for those of you with the new XBR's crying over your analog signal - don't give up hope! Just tweak, tweak, tweak!
    Thanks for any help or feedback on this problem.
     
  2. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    this is not ISF fixable.

    Regards
     
  3. Aaron Cohen

    Aaron Cohen Second Unit

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    I have the 34 inch Widescreen XBR and my analog signal looks HORRIBLE. What should I tweak? I am definitely picking up the Avia disc very soon as I have heard that this can help a lot.... Besides that, any suggestions?
     
  4. Aaron Cohen

    Aaron Cohen Second Unit

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    Also, what is a good DRC setting? I have my reality and clarity both bumped up most of the way....
     
  5. Aaron Cohen

    Aaron Cohen Second Unit

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    My top left corner is noticably yellow when brighter colors (such as red) are on the screen... and it is annoying the hell out of me! The television has an automatic degaussing..... and I can't figure out if it is magnetic interference, a faulty CRT, or what?? It's pretty annoying!

    Should I immediately run screaming for help?
     
  6. Jason Bell

    Jason Bell Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Scott,

    I just went through a similiar situation with my 32" JVC flat screen. It had Moire that I could only see with light blue or grey backgrounds. My Set also had very good geometrey and with all the talk about bad geometrey in flat screens I was afraid to exchange it for fear of getting a worse set. Well to make a long story short I did exchange it and I am so glad that I did because the new one has just as good of geometrey without the moire problem. Now that you no those problems exist you'll probably notice them more also. I dont think I would settle with a TV as expensive as that, especially since you cant calibrate the problems out of it. Just my opinion. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
     
  7. Scott Barnhart

    Scott Barnhart Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the input, everyone. Still not sure if I should exchange or not - what a pain. Why can't this ever be easy?

    Michael TLV - can you tell me what causes this? Should I exchange the set?

    As far as my settings for Analog cable, here is what I have done. First thing to note is that the 4 modes (Vivid, Standard, Movie and Pro) will all look different, even if you set the exact same settings for every settting. Strange, but useful.

    1) Calibrate either Movie or Pro to Avia/Video Essentials. If you don't have one of those, just leave Pro the way it came from the factory, except turn sharpness ALL the way down. I calibrated Movie because I am saving Pro for my progressive DVD player when I get it.

    2) Copy Pro settings to Movie if you didn't calibrate Movie in step #1.

    3) Turn OFF Velocity Scan Modulation in Movie.

    4) Set DRC Mode to "Interlaced".

    5) Set DRC Palette to "Reality = 1" and "Clarity = 100". This was the big tip I got off the Sony forum and really made a difference. I put up a Video Essentials test pattern and went thru all of the X-Y axis with these settings, and Reality=1, Clarity=100 made for the best looking test signals also.

    6) Now Movie should be looking really good, especially for high-rez interlaced sources such as LD and non-progressive DVD. If you use Movie mode to play movies, change DRC mode to "Cinemotion" while watching movies. If you use it for TV, leave it as "Interlaced".

    7) Now copy all of your settings from Movie to Standard.

    8) In Standard mode, bump up Picture by 1-2 notches and Brightness by 1-2 notches.

    9) Also, note that each pic mode has 3 *independant" DRC palette settings. So if you set Reality=1,Clarity=100 as "Custom 1" in Movie mode and then used Custom 1 in Movie mode, you will have to AGAIN set "Custom 1" to Reality=1,Clarity=100 in Standard mode and then use Custom 1. Set DRC Mode to "Interlaced" for Standard.

    10) Play with Velocity Scan modulation in Standard mode and go back and forth with Off and Low. I haven't yet made up my mind which one I like better for watching cable. They seem pretty comparable.

    11) Now Standard mode should be looking really nice, and a bit brighter/punchier than Movie mode. This is where I watch Analog cable for the best channels. For the weak/bad channels, I go to Movie mode, since the more correct (but slightly dimmer) picture smooths out some of the cable noise.

    12) Now Redo steps 7-11 copying Standard to Vivid, and if desired, bump Picture and Brightness again 1-2 notches. This mode will now work better for daylight/sunlight conditions where Standard might be too dark for you. The tradeoff will be slightly more noise in the picture.

    So if you did everything the way I did it, you will end up with Pro mode for progressive DVD, Movie for Laserdisc, Standard for cable TV in the evenings and Vivid for Cable TV during daylight.

    I hope you find this helpful. I am not a professional at this, and your mileage will of course vary, but these settings work very well for me.
     
  8. Aaron Cohen

    Aaron Cohen Second Unit

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    Thanks for all the info. I earlier today picked up the Avia set-up disc and calibrated standard mode using the basic video calibration. It looks very nice, but you're suggesting that I should have calibrated movie or pro to Avia instead? Yes, I had noticed that having the same settings of brightness, etc. but in different modes (vivid, pro, etc.) results in very different looking pictures. Before tweaking anything, I would always watch my movies in pro and sometimes movie. I will try calibrating in movie or pro mode tomorrow. Thanks!
     
  9. Reginald Trent

    Reginald Trent Screenwriter

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    I believe this is being caused by a magnetic field. The Wegas are very sensitive to magnetic fields. Do you have and speakers or anything that would generate a magnetic field near that side of the TV?

    BTW I have a 36XBR400 and have experienced the greenish color in the corner due to a speaker being to close.
     
  10. Scott Barnhart

    Scott Barnhart Stunt Coordinator

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    It's definitely not a speaker problem - both of my L/R's are shielded and my left side doesn't exhibit the same problem. Plus I removed my speakers far away, degaussed, and the problem is still there.
    I went back to where I bought it and put up Video Essentials on their floor model, and it has the exact same problem in the upper-right corner (no speakers anywhere near it). The service guy for the whole chain thinks it has to do with the beam deflection and the fact that they (Sony) can't quite get things lined up perfectly in the corners. I talked them into sending a service guy to the store to try to fix the floor model (using magnets they put in the TV or something like that?) and then if that fixes the floor model w/o introducing new problems, I will have them come out to my house to perform the same thing.
    I also checked out the 36XBR800 with Video Essentials, and it did NOT have the same problem, so maybe the 40" is just too big to get correct. I might have to step down in size. Pity... [​IMG]
     
  11. MarshawnM

    MarshawnM Stunt Coordinator

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    Guys,

    The "problem" you are discussing with the four modes looking different even with the picture settings the same is found in the Service Menu. Basically, it has settings that are in affect in addition to the regular menu. For example, Vivid is set to plus 5 (I think) for brightness, in the service menu. So even with Brightness turned all the way down, because of the plus 5 setting in the service menu, Vivid is brighter than the other modes with the same Brightness configuration. You can go into the Service Menu and set all settings to zero for all four modes (Vivid, Standard, etc), but it will void your warranty. When the ISF guy came out and calibrated my 36XBR400, the first thing he did was go into the service menu and set all four modes to zero. Check on the web, you can find out how to access the service menu, then run VE or Avida. Good luck.
     

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