My First DIY Sub Progress - web link

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mel Silva, Nov 11, 2002.

  1. Mel Silva

    Mel Silva Agent

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    It has begun. I have made some progress on my traditional Shiva 142.5L sub. I still have all 8 fingers and 2 thumbs and no small furry animals were harmed in the process. Rather than place all the text here, I built a new web page to add to my collection. Click Here
    Now the question remains, of how and how much testing do I do before deciding if the box is worth covering in laminate or to burn it and start over?
     
  2. Mel Silva

    Mel Silva Agent

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    Hmm, no comments. Either my effort really sucks and you guys are afraid to tell me so, or you've all gotten caught in my web pages and can't get out...

    Seriously, I could use a little feedback here, this is my first attempt.

    Mel
     
  3. JeffTodd

    JeffTodd Stunt Coordinator

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    Congrats on your progress. It looks good so far. Is the anticipation killing you yet? Keep us updated.
     
  4. Jack*Mains

    Jack*Mains Stunt Coordinator

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    Heh, me and you are both working on the same thing right now.
    The only problem is my box is ALMOST finished, and I cannot do any more work on it untill my sub, amp and port arrive. THe problem with that is, CSS is out of AVA250's and I have to wait at least untill thursday for more to arrive so they can ship out my order [​IMG]
    Nice job on the box, make sure to seal all of those holes later on though, you want it to be perfecly air tight.
    And me, I dont have a table saw, so I figured Il just use a jigsaw, make the boards a bit bigger then they have to be, and sand them to perfection later. Surprisingly, that worked rather well so far.
    All that I have to do now is put out the driver hole, port hole, and the amp hole.
    Oh well, back to waiting.
     
  5. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Mel,

    great work!

    I will be building my enclosure within the next couple of
    weeks after I do some research and determine my final internal
    volume needs.

    I don't have a table saw and as much as I would like to
    do Dado's for all of the internal bracing I simply can't
    (well I guess I could do it the hard way set the depth
    gauge on the circular saw make two passes to width and then
    chisel the dado out but that's just too imprecise)

    So I kicked around the idea of dowels and it's good to see
    you used them. Do you think they will stay good and tight?
    I think I am going to run dowels to secure the inner bracing
    and then use Spline cuts to do the outer walls and use 1/8"
    Hard Board cut to fit the splines (Hard Board absorbs the
    glue so it will expand like a bisquit only the spline will
    run the full length) it's either that or just use bisquits.

    anyway, she looks real good mel!
     
  6. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    You must really have patience to be using dowels and biscuits for the assembly. That box looks mighty strong.

    On some car subs, I simply used yellow glue, butt joints and a nail gun for everything.

    I always thought about using dove-tails, biscuits, dados and such for builing enclosures but I never did. I think yours is the first sub I've seen that uses dowels/biscuits.

    My one concern is how you got: "105 dB SPL in room from 13.7 Hz"... I didn't think a Shiva could do that.
     
  7. Mel Silva

    Mel Silva Agent

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    I decided to use the PE 300-794 amp that I will modify to the proper Q and F3. I used the Sallen-Key spreadsheet that Peter Jessee sent me to find the proper values for the pre-amp. I think it will work fine and other have assured me that theirs work, but we will see.

    Thanks for the feedback guys, I feel better now.

    Mel
     
  8. Mel Silva

    Mel Silva Agent

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    Oh, one more thing. I did not want to use screws or my nail gun to hold the panels together. I've stripped out way to many holes in MDF with screws, so that is another reason I went with dowels where I couldn't do bicuits. If I had thought about it, I probably should have done dados for the panels. I have the table saw and dado blade set, or I could have used the router and a 3/4" flat bottom bit. Oh well, next time.

    Mel
     
  9. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Mel,
    Thanks for the ideas. Yeah I am going to use those knurled
    dowles for sure. Did you get those at Home Depot or Lowes?
    What lenghts do they come in?
    I decided that using Splines or Bisquits is going to be
    overkill, as it stands this thing will be built like a
    tank (using 5/8" MDF)
    I am going to use the Dowels on the exterior pannels and
    the internal bracing and I am gouing to use a good counter
    sunk galvanized 3" long phillips wood screw to tie it all
    together (this will also help since I don't have clamps)
    I plan on predrilling and countersinking all holes and test
    fitting before I apply glue to the dowel holes.
    I have built many car sub boxes before, in fact the one in
    my daily driver (3.0 Cubic Foot, Sealed, 5/8" MDF with a 1/4
    " Plexi top) has been in and out of 5 cars and been around
    for dang near 10 years [​IMG] Boy when I built that box I went
    overboard, when I carpeted it, I even sat there with a needle
    and thread and sewed every corner [​IMG] (that was a beeeotch!)
    I am finishing my box the "easy" way too. I bought 2 rolls
    of Black Ash pressure sensitive 10Mill thick vinyl from PE
    (same stuff most mainstream speaker companies use) I am just
    not "100%" sure how I am going to do the vinyl yet. I could
    wrap the vinyl around the pannels that way when they are glued,
    dowled and screwed you would have clean looking joints. Or
    I could just carefully trim the vinyl laminate at the edges
    of all the pannels and then install some sort of corner moulding
    around all the pannel edges (that might look sharp, black ash
    with natural oak trim)
    We'll see! [​IMG]
     
  10. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    I've used the vinyl from PE. It's decent stuff and looked much better than I expected. The one downside is that any minute piece of dust on the cabinets will telegraph through the vinyl. And when you pull off the paper backer the static electricity created grabs all kinds of dust particles out of the air.

    Given a choice between the vinyl and veneer, I'll choose the veneer every day. But for a decent looking, inexpensive finish, the vinyl ain't too bad.
     
  11. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Brian,
    I would love to use real veneer don't get me wrong. But I
    do not have the tools and equipment to do this. If I had
    the table saw and the clamps and the bench space etc. I
    would most definatly go with tride and true real veneer.
    My mains are done in black ash vinyl and this will match
    them 100% and it's something I can do with my limited tool
    list. I work with vinyl all the time (on my cars, on other
    peoples cars, signs etc. I fool around with the stuff a good
    bit) I don't think I will have a problem. After I am done
    prefitting all of the pieces and making certain that the fit
    is correct, I will wipe off every piece of MDF with an auto
    body Bees Wax "Tack Cloth" that should pull every last hair
    and fuzzie off the surface.
    I will keep you all posted how it turns out. Unfortunatly I
    lack a quality digital camera so I am not going to bother
    documenting the process like Patrick, Rich or Mel has done.
    I will take a few shots of the assembly and a finished product
    shot.
    This is going to take a couple of weeks. My amp should be
    here Wednesday and my Sub and my Spikes and Vinyl and Acoustic
    Tiles should be here from PE roughly the same time.
    I am covering the entire inside of the box with 2.5" acoustic
    Tiles.
    Rather than use Acou-Stuff. I was also going to cover under
    the foam tiles with asphalt based sound deadener but I will
    just make sure I overconstruct the cabinentry and it will be
    plenty "Dead" [​IMG]
     
  12. Mel Silva

    Mel Silva Agent

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    I was considering this myself, but when consulting "my lovely", she preferred the look of the birds-eye maple (of course!). Since I have a very low tolerance for imperfections, and I didn't want to spend an entire winter covering, removing and recovering the sub with vinyl, I am going with the paper backed veneer. I may have the same difficulty, but I have more confidence that I can work with flaws in wood than in vinyl.
    Brett, I also found this veneer edge trimmer at woodcraft. It may be just what you are looking for to trim the edges of your black ash veneer. Let us know how it turns out.
    Mel
     
  13. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Mel,
    Thanks for the tips and the links.. I just bought an 81
    Piece Accesory set from Ryobi to go with my 18V Cordless
    Ryobi 6 Pack and in the 81 piece set I have all of the
    dowel centers Woo Hoo! [​IMG]
    As for the vinyl, trimming this stuff is much simpler than
    thick wood veneers all you need really is an X-Acto and a
    good utility knife.
    I will most certainly let you know how it turns out. I am
    currently trying to figure out what my best approach is
    for output. I was seriously considering a sealed box since
    I have the guts to drive the woofage (500 watt sunfire amp)
    I ran the TS Parameters for the Sub I choose (MB-Quart PDW
    10" DVC) and I am not quite sure how to read WinISD Pro yet
    (I am figuring it out) but it looks like I am dropping too
    many DB's down in the 20-25Hz range for my liking, I may
    just go ported yet... Of course I need to factor in the
    room gain and placement.. This stuff sure gets complex when
    you decide to deviate from the preconstructed plans laid out
    for a specific woofer... [​IMG]
    Hey speaking of dowel centers... I am guessing you just drill
    the dowel holes in one pannel, insert a dowel and place the
    appropriate dowel center into the hole and then butt the
    pannels against each other on a square surface and that
    transfers the mark to the other pannel to drill from.. Yep
    see that, I did learn something in all those years of wood
    shop! [​IMG]
    It's all comming back to me now! And to think I used to pick
    on the teacher just because he was missing a few fingers
    *Huge Grin*
     
  14. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    You should really reconsider that driver/amp combo. With 500W you'll easily destroy that driver. It's Xmax is only 9.5mm. For $20 more you can get the Dayton DVC 12" woofer with a 15.1mm Xmax. Also, the Quart 10" has a 28Hz Fs. Not exactly what I'd call a "subwoofer" driver. This thing is strictly meant for car audio and is a waste of $100.

    You could still damage the DVC 12" with 500W, but it's less likely than with the Quart driver.
     
  15. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Brian,
    Hey I like doing things the hard way [​IMG] I love a challenge
    and I didn't think $100.00 was a bad deal for the quality
    of the driver. I can always purchase a Titanic MKII 12" DVC
    Later on and build anrother enclosure. This is an experiment
    for me, going the opposite path that everyone else goes.
    I will see what I can do with the MB-Q Driver with some
    careful box design and if I am not pleased then I will buy
    the larger DLS Driver.
    I don't believe that the amp is going to damage the driver
    as long as the box is designed properly, the MB-Q can handle
    a peak of 700 and an RMS of 300 without flinching
    I promise I will let you know what I come up with. Right
    now the plots I am getting aren't that promising in a sealed
    enclosure so I am going to toy around with a ported design
    and see what I come up with.
     
  16. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Brett,

    I guess I just don't understand essentially throwing away $100 on a driver that will be at a disadvantage no matter what alignment you choose. It won't go loud and it won't go low. Not safely anyway; not with that amount of power.

    I just don't understand the thought process behind this particular choice of driver. I'll run some ported sims later this evening in Unibox to see what type of extension you can get. Shooting for output below 25-30Hz will probably be dangerous though.
     
  17. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Brian,
    Trust me there is no logic to the way I do things so don't
    try and figure me out [​IMG]
    It wasn't a waste of money because even if it don't work
    it's "pretty" I will hand it from a chrome chain around
    my neck! LOL
    Let me know what you come up with, I will let you know what
    I come up with.
     
  18. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Brett,
     
  19. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Dan,

    3/4" no problem I can do that...

    Yeah I did allready purchase the MB-Q at that time but it
    honestly doesn't matter because I can buy another driver.
    I just bought the MB-Q to play with. If I want a really
    GOOD driver I will spend the money and go with the MKII
    or something along those lines.

    I still think I can produce something decent out of this
    sub and a sealed enclosure. I knew when I looked at the TS
    Parameters that this would never be a 115DB @ 20Hz sub..
    Honestly I don't even have that large of a room area for
    a huge waterheater. I want to try a small sealed enclosure
    with lots of watts to see what I can do. This may not be
    the best choice for that application but I bet there is
    something out there that will fit the bill in a 10 or 12"
    driver.
     
  20. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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