My DVD player dispays 2:35 as 1:85 (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Gatie]

I don't know why it says use Theater Wide 1 for anamorphic in the manual, but this is completely wrong. I have a Toshiba 56H80 and unless they completely changed the modes (I doubt it) the correct settings are the following:

Full - anamorphic widescreen (with your JVC player, this should be the setting for all except the odd non-anamorphic DVD that is not flagged correctly, i.e Titanic or the first Stargate, widescreen and 4:3 included)

Theater Wide 1 - Full height (almost) with progressive stretch (less in middle, more stretch to the sides)

Theater Wide 2 - No stretch, crop only, used for non-anamorphic DVD's that are not scaled by the player

Theater Wide 2 - combination stretch and crop

Normal - 4:3 with grey bars on the side

Anamorphic DVD's are mastered to fit a full 16x9 frame, with black bars for anything above 1.78:1. Why would you have to stretch, crop or otherwise distort the picture? Theater Wide 1 distorts the picture by progressive stretch. This is definately going to distort an anamorphic signal. Same with the other TW modes. Full being the only mode that fills the screen without crop or distortion is definately the mode for anamorphic DVD's

To the original poster - I would try another DVD that is 2.35:1 and anamorphic. If there are no small black bars top and bottom, you are in the wrong zoom mode on the JVC player or in the wrong mode on the TV. This would eliminate any problems specific to Panic Room, which the JVC may be choking on (i.e. the JVC may think the DVD is non-anamorphic and is zooming by mistake). I had a JVC 723 and I liked it, but it had many quirks and died less than 3 months after I bought it. I now own an RP91.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Joe is absolutely correct if you have a toshiba set, you should not be using the Full mode. That is most likely your problem.

No, Joe is absolutely wrong.
Toshiba's widescreen modes, and their correct usage, haven't changed in the 3.5 years that I've owned a 65" Toshiba widescreen set. For anamorphically enhanced DVDs, the correct mode on a Toshiba widescreen set is FULL.
For letterboxed images without anamorphic enhancement, the correct setting on a Toshiba set is THEATERWIDE 2, which is a straight zoom with no change in geometry.
The main feature on Panic Room should be played in FULL mode. The trailer should be played in THEATERWIDE 2.
M.

 

[Michael Reuben]

A 1:78 picture would fill the screen, a 1:85 would have about 5-10% black bars.

It's closer to 4%. And that 4% is divided between top and bottom. So you'd have to have less than 2% overscan to get letterbox bars on a 1.85 film.

M.

 

[nolesrule]

OK. Well I'm aparently absolutely wrong. If that's the case, then the manual needs to be a little more clear on this.

 

[Michael Reuben]

I don't think Toshiba has updated their manual since the first Theaterwides hit the market. Their entire description of the "wide" modes is geared toward someone who watches only 4:3 material, which makes zero sense.
But they do make great RPTVs!
M.

 

[Rich K]

Thanks for all the responses. I have heard a lot about the Tosh "Full" and Stretch I modes. I personally like stretch I on anamorphic because its distorts the least. Full makes them look too fat. Anyway both modes have the full picture on the screen. Chung, I think you are wrong about your hypothesis. I know about the lost pic info with letterbox black bars . But that should have nothing to do with the aspect ratio per se. The stretch mode-I does not distort the anamorphic DVD. Believe it or not. It distorts a little with 4:3. Mike, if you are using stretch II on letterbox its changing 2:35 to 1:85. Less black bars more picture , less chance of burnin. But not the original correct aspect ratio. The correct ratios are in letterbox!

 

[Michael Reuben]

Rich, I've been doing this for a very long time. I'm sorry, but your statements are simply inaccurate.

For an image that's anamorphically enhanced (e.g., the main feature on Panic Room), regardless of its aspect ratio, the only correct screen setting on your set is "FULL". You're perfectly entitled to watch in whatever mode you like, but the geometry will be wrong with any other setting.

For an image that is not anamorphically enhanced, but is letterboxed (e.g., the trailer on Panic Room), the correct screen setting on your set is Theaterwide 2. This setting does not change the aspect ratio. It simply enlarges the image to fill the screen horizontally, while the aspect ratio remains the same. It's a bigger image, not a different AR.

M.

 

[chung_sotheby]

Michael, I couldn't have said it better. With "Full" mode the whole screen of the television diplays the whole amount of information in the frame, either being anamorphic or letterboxed, but with theaterwide, only the actual image frame, not the letterbox bars, are shown on the screen

 

[Rich K]

Mike, you are right. I just got used to "Theaterwide-I, mainly because I use it for 4:3 material. But in fact the full mode is correct. I went into "Avia" "widescreen Enhanced". It clearly shows the even spacing of the squares in full, while Theaterwide-I has smaller boxes near the center. Regarding overscan, there is a little more overscan in full on the sides. Could you explain the comment Mr. Chung made about the differnce between these two modes as he explained it in the post after yours. Is he confused, or am I?

 

[Rich K]

Mike, sorry, I forget something. The comment you made about the trailer(letterboxed) should be displayed in "Theaterwide-II" This is my main point. Why is it right in mode II? I believe the trailer is true 2:35. Using Mode II will expand the top and bottom, therefore, there's more viewable picture to watch, less black bars. But isn't this a preference? Isn't it a fact that by expanding it, you are actually changing the geometry height-wise? If you kept expanding it top and bottom it could end up being a square picture. If it were square, it would not be 2:35. You would have changed the original aspect ratio?

 

[Michael Reuben]

Quote:

Of course. You could just as easily choose to display letterboxed material that lacks anamorphic enhancement in Toshiba's "normal" mode -- i.e., a letterboxed image in the 4:3 center of your TV screen. But if you expand it using Theaterwide 2, you crop off the letterbox bars and fill the screen from left to right. It will be a bigger image, but it may also look more washed out because you're simply making it bigger, not adding more resolution.
M.

 

[chung_sotheby]

Rich, while the trailer might be in 2.35, this does not mean that the trailer is in anamorphic. Here is an example:

1.Anamorphic 2.35:1 displayed on a 4:3 tv (= is black bars, P is picture information)

====================
====================
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
====================
====================

2.Anamorphic 2.35:1 diplayed on a 16:9 tv

===========================
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
===========================

3.Non-anamophic 2.35:1 displayed on a 4:3 TV

====================
====================
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
====================
====================

4. Non-anamorphic 2.35:1 displayed on a 16:9 tv

===========================
===========================
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
===========================
===========================

5. Anamophic 1.85 on a 4:3 tv

====================
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
====================

6. Anamorphic 1.85 on a 16:9 tv

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

7. Non-anamorphic 1.85 on a 4:3 tv

====================
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
====================

8 Non-anamorphic 1.85 on a 16:9 tv

===========================
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
===========================

Hope this comes through clear.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Note that Chung's examples all assume that the 16:9 TV is in "FULL" mode (which, as noted, is not the right mode for non-anamorphic material).

Unless I'm missing something.

M.

 

[chung_sotheby]

nope, michael, you are correct

 

[John Royster]

could the orignal poster post the titles he's watching? I've seen numerous disks labeled as 2.35 but are infact 1:85.

Blade 2 comes to mind.

 

[Rich K]

John, Examples would be "Panic Room" and "Pearl Harbor".

 

[Rich K]

Chung, that was quite a display, it must have taken you quite a bit of time. Thank you. Can you please explain to me the difference in your example of 1:85 x 16:9 x Non-Anamorphic(8) and 1:85 X 16:9 X Anamorphic(6). How can your 2 examples actually be 1:85 when they are of different shapes or aspect ratios? Why should they not be the same shape ,(8)? What make the anamorphic display higher from top to bottom?

 

[Michael Reuben]

He's showing you the effect of FULL mode on different types of material. Displaying the correct aspect ratio on a 16:9 TV requires that both the player and the TV be correctly set for the way the material was recorded.
An anamorphically enhanced 1.85:1 image is supposed to be stretched horizontally and, when stretched to the correct degree, will be 1.85:1. A non-anamorphic 1.85:1 image should not be stretched horizontally and will therefore be a different AR (and not the right one) in FULL mode.
M.

 

[Rich K]

You know how there are explanations for the letterbox not having as much resolution as anamorphic? You know, they say the letterbox image uses the black bar area for some of the picture info. Is this the reason a 1:85 pic in anamorphic is taller than the same in letterbox. Because that extra 20 or 30% of picture info is in the additional picture height? I just thought of this. I thought there was just more resolution for the same area in anamorphic.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Rich,

Now you've got it.

In 480p or 480i, a tv uses 480 scanlines from top to bottom to display a picture.
The lines are longer on a widescreen set.

Using a 1:85 movie as an example, the anamorphic disc will use all 480 lines to display picture information, resulting in a vertically stretched image on a 4/3 tv because it's scanlines are too short, but a properly proportioned picture on a widescreen set with it's longer scanlines.

The nonanamorphic disc will only use the center scanlines (about 360 of them) to display picture information and will waste the other 120 or so on the black bars. The fact that the anamorphic disc is using the maximum number of scanlines to produce the picture is why you get better resolution if you have a widescreen set.

In 4/3 mode, your player is automatically discarding every 4th scanline on an anamorphic disc so it won't be vertically stretched on a 4/3 tv. This is called anamorphic downconversion. Of course, the player also does some smoothing out of the downconversion to keep the picture from looking too jagged, but the discard of a quarter of the scanlines is taking place and inevitably some resolution is lost. 16/9 mode on the player just turns off the downconversion.


So the 4/3 vs 16/9 mode on the dvd player is simply turning anamorphic downconversion on and off.

The player is capable of detecting whether or not a disc is anamorphic, and automatically does not do the downconversion if the disc is not anamorphic.

So if your used to using a dvd player in 4/3 mode on a 4/3 tv, you may never have been aware of the difference between anamorphic and nonanamorphic dvds, though theoretically and in practice with this scenario a nonamorphic disc will actually look better.

As little as 2 or 3 years ago, when 16/9 sets were much scarcer than they are today there used to be a large contingent of folks heavily invested in high end 4/3 projectors and such who preferred nonanamorphic dvds and argued for dual releases of anamorphic and nonanamorphic versions of movies.